Shams: Lonzo for Okoro

[Jeffster81]

I am now officially concern about what AK will get for Coby.

Whatever it is, I bet there won't be any picks involved. Unless AK throws in his calling card 2nd round pick.

That is why I am concerned. I bet AK gets another wing wh I can't shot for Coby.

[League Circles]

So who think Okoro is our defensive ace that starts with Giddey and Coby defending the best guard?

Based on today’s roster it’s either gonna be him or Pat. Noa is extremely unlikely to be ready in November. Unless we really are going to try to tank the season a bit.

Not Huerter or Tre? Or Ayo?

IMO it will be between Ayo and Okoro, and should be. Jones, if re-signed, will run the 2nd unit offense when Giddey is on the bench, and Huerter doesn't have the defensive potential needed for the role. I think Patrick plays better off the bench and will remain there indefinitely.

[DuckIII]

So who think Okoro is our defensive ace that starts with Giddey and Coby defending the best guard?

Based on today’s roster it’s either gonna be him or Pat. Noa is extremely unlikely to be ready in November. Unless we really are going to try to tank the season a bit.

Not Huerter or Tre? Or Ayo?

I always forget about Huerter, don’t know why. Yes, in the short term it could be one of them. We might start 3 guards unless or until Noa is ready.

Pat might be horrible again. If he’s like last year again, he shouldn’t play much at all anymore. Last year was bust level play. And Okoro might take time or he might regress. All possible.

[Ballerkingn23]

We got our own pick back in the Lavine/Fox trade. Lonzo was a 1 for 1 player trade. So was Caruso. 1 for 1 player trades seem pretty rare, no? It's almost like AKME would just rather not deal with picks, especially other people's picks, whose value you have no control over. Just keep them, we're good? lol. I think and hope that it's kind of a joke when people say AK hates draft picks, but it's starting to feel kind of weird. Both of these trades are perfectly even? Not even a second going either direction, or a swap of seconds? He doesn't seem to be looking for lottery tickets or to swindle anyone for value, it feels like he's just looking for fit, to the scheme and to the timeline. But one of his prime duties is negotiating for value, both with players and other teams. This is a cheap shot... but is he doing it?

AK doesn’t value picks at all! Regards of what adjective you want to use its clear he doesn’t want them. The irony to that if his laborious behind did he’d prb be able to off load a Vuc or Carter and free up a Roster spot to allow us to keep more young talent. And perhaps facilitate better trades for better returns, than this 1:1 bs we’re doing.

But AK clearly has a issue with picks. The Giddy trade in itself should’ve netted you at the minimum 1 pick from an origination overflowing with draft picks they can’t use over the next What decade? For a player at the time with low value who most teams know they’re trying to move.

Meaning I know you want my player more than I want yours so guess what ill do if you give me that player plus a 1st or 2 2nd’s Ill take him off your hands for my guy you want and you negotiate from there.

But who knows if this is attempted. The outcome remains we get no picks. And don’t have much to show from losing valuable talent in regards to future assets.

When a more competent GM would have cooped a treasure trove of assets given the amount of talent we let go.

[Chi town]

Based on today’s roster it’s either gonna be him or Pat. Noa is extremely unlikely to be ready in November. Unless we really are going to try to tank the season a bit.

Not Huerter or Tre? Or Ayo?

I always forget about Huerter, don’t know why. Yes, in the short term it could be one of them. We might start 3 guards unless or until Noa is ready.

Pat might be horrible again. If he’s like last year again, he shouldn’t play much at all anymore. Last year was bust level play. And Okoro might take time or he might regress. All possible.

My bet is Pat will be fully healthy with a full offseason and be properly conditioned to actually play in our new style. Think we will get 3D Pat which is a 20mph positive player that can be traded.

I think Okoro will get a slight bump due to pace as well.

[DuckIII]

Not Huerter or Tre? Or Ayo?

I always forget about Huerter, don’t know why. Yes, in the short term it could be one of them. We might start 3 guards unless or until Noa is ready.

Pat might be horrible again. If he’s like last year again, he shouldn’t play much at all anymore. Last year was bust level play. And Okoro might take time or he might regress. All possible.

My bet is Pat will be fully healthy with a full offseason and be properly conditioned to actually play in our new style. Think we will get 3D Pat which is a 20mph positive player that can be traded.

I think Okoro will get a slight bump due to pace as well.

Pat's just an impossible call. I know all the dynamics that have converged to requires patience with Pat (awful team construction, deference to an extremely selfish Big 3 with a strict offensive hierarchy, a coaching staff which openly admitted to clinging to the hierarchy, COVID, and various acute injuries (and now possibly a chronic one).

But at the end of the day, it has to click mentally. And last year when virtually all of these variables were removed and a path cleared for him to assert himself, he wilted worse than ever. I, more than most, hold Pat's physical and skill based potential in very high regard. If he "gets it" I think he can pretty quickly turn himself into a value contract player (his contract is not substantial, despite the narrative) based on talent. I just no longer believe he is likely to ever "get it." If he does though, boy howdy does that change our options significantly to the better.

[burlydee]

I always forget about Huerter, don’t know why. Yes, in the short term it could be one of them. We might start 3 guards unless or until Noa is ready.

Pat might be horrible again. If he’s like last year again, he shouldn’t play much at all anymore. Last year was bust level play. And Okoro might take time or he might regress. All possible.

My bet is Pat will be fully healthy with a full offseason and be properly conditioned to actually play in our new style. Think we will get 3D Pat which is a 20mph positive player that can be traded.

I think Okoro will get a slight bump due to pace as well.

Pat's just an impossible call. I know all the dynamics that have converged to requires patience with Pat (awful team construction, deference to an extremely selfish Big 3 with a strict offensive hierarchy, a coaching staff which openly admitted to clinging to the hierarchy, COVID, and various acute injuries (and now possibly a chronic one).

But at the end of the day, it has to click mentally. And last year when virtually all of these variables were removed and a path cleared for him to assert himself, he wilted worse than ever. I, more than most, hold Pat's physical and skill based potential in very high regard. If he "gets it" I think he can pretty quickly turn himself into a value contract player (his contract is not substantial, despite the narrative) based on talent. I just no longer believe he is likely to ever "get it." If he does though, boy howdy does that change our options significantly to the better.

I would love Pat to watch tape of Nesmith. Do you see how hard he plays? Don't worry about fouls, just play hard. I don't think it will ever clock for him. His central problem is aggressiveness on both ends.

[kodo]

So who think Okoro is our defensive ace that starts with Giddey and Coby defending the best guard?

Based on today’s roster it’s either gonna be him or Pat. Noa is extremely unlikely to be ready in November. Unless we really are going to try to tank the season a bit.

Think we still start Huerter, because it worked end of last season. Continuity and all that.

[kodo]

My bet is Pat will be fully healthy with a full offseason and be properly conditioned to actually play in our new style. Think we will get 3D Pat which is a 20mph positive player that can be traded.

I think Okoro will get a slight bump due to pace as well.

Pat's just an impossible call. I know all the dynamics that have converged to requires patience with Pat (awful team construction, deference to an extremely selfish Big 3 with a strict offensive hierarchy, a coaching staff which openly admitted to clinging to the hierarchy, COVID, and various acute injuries (and now possibly a chronic one).

But at the end of the day, it has to click mentally. And last year when virtually all of these variables were removed and a path cleared for him to assert himself, he wilted worse than ever. I, more than most, hold Pat's physical and skill based potential in very high regard. If he "gets it" I think he can pretty quickly turn himself into a value contract player (his contract is not substantial, despite the narrative) based on talent. I just no longer believe he is likely to ever "get it." If he does though, boy howdy does that change our options significantly to the better.

I would love Pat to watch tape of Nesmith. Do you see how hard he plays? Don't worry about fouls, just play hard. I don't think it will ever clock for him. His central problem is aggressiveness on both ends.

Is it really just a desire issue? I just don't think he's that athletic or mobile. If he was an elite athlete in college, he wouldn't have had these athletic issues (from a draft report):

Defensively speaking, Patrick Williams does have some Jekyll-and-Hyde characteristics. His makeup of size, versatility and switch-ability is precisely what NBA front offices are looking for in today’s league. Williams has a conceivable future as a defender that can positionally cover the 2-through-4 spots, yet he also falls asleep off the ball at times, occasionally a half-second late on rotational responsibilities, which lead to avoidable baskets, and he also can be clunky when sliding laterally to check his assignment."

* Struggles to get to the rim and finish on half-court drives; when driving, had just 18 attempts within seven feet, making 38.9%
* Surprisingly inefficient in transition (0.79 PPP, 17th percentile)
* Below average isolation defender (0.85 PPP, 35th percentile)
* Some reasons for concern in lateral movement, which shows up in defensive isolation data

All the elite athleticism stuff came from just looking at his body, but all the athleticism metrics (finishing, transition, isolation) were poor. Results should take precedence over the eye test. Guys like Caruso & Derrick White look like accountants but they're the league's best defenders.

Patrick is now an above average iso defender in the NBA, so he actually has improved himself quite a bit. What we're seeing IS the improved Patrick who worked hard. People were just wildly off on how good of a prospect he originally was. He was around #30 in HS then had a disappointing college season. He was never a top 5 guy of his class.

[ChiefILL53]

It was a first round pick for Lonzo AND taking on a bad contract. O'cconor clarified this later on.

And that's normal for trades involving FRPs that dont include a star player. I dont understand AKME's disdain for taking on bad contracts if theyre getting draft assets along with it.

[yifsuibfe1]

It was a first round pick for Lonzo AND taking on a bad contract. O'cconor clarified this later on.

And that's normal for trades involving FRPs that dont include a star player. I dont understand AKME's disdain for taking on bad contracts if theyre getting draft assets along with it.

I’m guessing it’s more ownership’s disdain to take on the extra money.

[TheJordanRule]

The upside in this deal is that the FO is searching for a guy who can fit with Giddey in the lineup. Okoro's just an excellent fit from a defensive standpoint. He has the special athletic tools to guard PGs in a pittbull kind of way. We desperately need to wake up Okoro's offensive abilities, though. There's such a thing as a 3 and D guy, or a two way wing. But if you can't hit threes, and can't score on the other end, you're not gonna be in the league for much longer...

[kodo]

It was a first round pick for Lonzo AND taking on a bad contract. O'cconor clarified this later on.

And that's normal for trades involving FRPs that dont include a star player. I dont understand AKME's disdain for taking on bad contracts if theyre getting draft assets along with it.

I don't think you can do the 8-9 good guys thing that way. So Naz Reid just signed for $25M as a bench guy. Austin Reaves as a 3rd option wants $35M, Kuminga wants $30M. $25M - $35M per "good guy" is $240M for 8 of them, which is $100M over cap and blows past the aprons faster than Ishbia on a drinking binge.

The "8 or 9 good guys" is the most expensive way to make a team, so the Bulls have to be incredibly tight financially.

[GoBlue72391]

It was a first round pick for Lonzo AND taking on a bad contract. O'cconor clarified this later on.

And that's normal for trades involving FRPs that dont include a star player. I dont understand AKME's disdain for taking on bad contracts if theyre getting draft assets along with it.

It's not like that bad contract would have stopped us from doing anything.

[waffle]

Okoro is a good fit on this team. So I like that. I LOVED Lonzo and hope the best for him, so that's a bummer

A sensible trade

[DASMACKDOWN]

I never used to like Joe Cowley. I really despised him for how he treated Derrick when he was here.

But with this new regime, he is the only media member that will ask very direct and hard questions.

Im sure he will have a field day for the next press conference.

[Red Larrivee]

The upside in this deal is that the FO is searching for a guy who can fit with Giddey in the lineup. Okoro's just an excellent fit from a defensive standpoint. He has the special athletic tools to guard PGs in a pittbull kind of way. We desperately need to wake up Okoro's offensive abilities, though. There's such a thing as a 3 and D guy, or a two way wing. But if you can't hit threes, and can't score on the other end, you're not gonna be in the league for much longer...

Okoro's 3PAR has gone up from 38% as a rookie to 57% last year. He shot 37% from three last season, which is solid. He's definitely made the necessary strides to be a solid shooter and his defense has always been good. It's just that his attempts are almost exclusively created by other players.

I think the issue isn't perimeter shooting, but more so that he hasn't shown much outside of that. Someone mentioned that the Bulls could be hoping to use him in transition more to make use of his athleticism. A lot of these Cleveland plays, he just seems to be camping in the corner all possession.

But, more and more it feels and reads like he's SG Pat.

[sco]

The upside in this deal is that the FO is searching for a guy who can fit with Giddey in the lineup. Okoro's just an excellent fit from a defensive standpoint. He has the special athletic tools to guard PGs in a pittbull kind of way. We desperately need to wake up Okoro's offensive abilities, though. There's such a thing as a 3 and D guy, or a two way wing. But if you can't hit threes, and can't score on the other end, you're not gonna be in the league for much longer...

Okoro's 3PAR has gone up from 38% as a rookie to 57% last year. He shot 37% from three last season, which is solid. He's definitely made the necessary strides to be a solid shooter and his defense has always been good.

I think the issue isn't perimeter shooting, but more so that he hasn't shown much outside of that. Someone mentioned that the Bulls could be hoping to use him in transition more to make use of his athleticism. A lot of these Cleveland plays, he just seems to be camping in the corner all possession.

IDK, not every player needs to be more than a guy who plays hard on defense and shoots efficiently on low volume...ideal for your 5th option scorer.

[Red Larrivee]

The upside in this deal is that the FO is searching for a guy who can fit with Giddey in the lineup. Okoro's just an excellent fit from a defensive standpoint. He has the special athletic tools to guard PGs in a pittbull kind of way. We desperately need to wake up Okoro's offensive abilities, though. There's such a thing as a 3 and D guy, or a two way wing. But if you can't hit threes, and can't score on the other end, you're not gonna be in the league for much longer...

Okoro's 3PAR has gone up from 38% as a rookie to 57% last year. He shot 37% from three last season, which is solid. He's definitely made the necessary strides to be a solid shooter and his defense has always been good.

I think the issue isn't perimeter shooting, but more so that he hasn't shown much outside of that. Someone mentioned that the Bulls could be hoping to use him in transition more to make use of his athleticism. A lot of these Cleveland plays, he just seems to be camping in the corner all possession.

IDK, not every player needs to be more than a guy who plays hard on defense and shoots efficiently on low volume...ideal for your 5th option scorer.

I agree. But, I think if you want to make him more useful and more of a value, then you need to unlock him in a way that hasn't been shown. That doesn't mean creating offense, but more so just being more active and involved on offense than standing in the corner.

[Jcool0]

The upside in this deal is that the FO is searching for a guy who can fit with Giddey in the lineup. Okoro's just an excellent fit from a defensive standpoint. He has the special athletic tools to guard PGs in a pittbull kind of way. We desperately need to wake up Okoro's offensive abilities, though. There's such a thing as a 3 and D guy, or a two way wing. But if you can't hit threes, and can't score on the other end, you're not gonna be in the league for much longer...

Okoro's 3PAR has gone up from 38% as a rookie to 57% last year. He shot 37% from three last season, which is solid. He's definitely made the necessary strides to be a solid shooter and his defense has always been good.

I think the issue isn't perimeter shooting, but more so that he hasn't shown much outside of that. Someone mentioned that the Bulls could be hoping to use him in transition more to make use of his athleticism. A lot of these Cleveland plays, he just seems to be camping in the corner all possession.

IDK, not every player needs to be more than a guy who plays hard on defense and shoots efficiently on low volume...ideal for your 5th option scorer.

Do you want your 5th starter scoring under 9 points a game and taking less then 3 3PA? Sounds more like a bench guy.