Moderators: HomoSapien, kulaz3000, fleet, DASMACKDOWN, GimmeDat, RedBulls23, AshyLarrysDiaper, coldfish, Payt10, Ice Man, dougthonus, Michael Jackson, Tommy Udo 6
I think the Bundesliga is to the spanish league like the g-league is to the NBA.KissedByaRose1 wrote:Where does the bundesliga rank compared to NCAA and Euroleague in your guys opinions? Every time i want to get really excited about this guy it's tough not to notice a lot of the guys look like they're 5'11.
Senor Chang wrote:One thing people are glossing over with the giannis comps just as they did with the pwill/ kawhi comps is wingspan. Kawhi and giannis have 7’3” wingspans. These are significant in why they’re able to do a lot of what they do. While 6’11” and 7’0” wingspan is good it’s not freakish and kawhi/giannis have freakish wingspans. So let’s compare noa with guys who have wingspans on the same planet.
Also worth noting that if masai had any say in the draft this year for Toronto he decided to pass on essengue. Maybe it means he doesn’t believe his length is freakish enough to overcome some of his deficiencies.
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Senor Chang wrote:One thing people are glossing over with the giannis comps just as they did with the pwill/ kawhi comps is wingspan. Kawhi and giannis have 7’3” wingspans. These are significant in why they’re able to do a lot of what they do. While 6’11” and 7’0” wingspan is good it’s not freakish and kawhi/giannis have freakish wingspans. So let’s compare noa with guys who have wingspans on the same planet.
Also worth noting that if masai had any say in the draft this year for Toronto he decided to pass on essengue. Maybe it means he doesn’t believe his length is freakish enough to overcome some of his deficiencies.
kodo wrote:Senor Chang wrote:One thing people are glossing over with the giannis comps just as they did with the pwill/ kawhi comps is wingspan. Kawhi and giannis have 7’3” wingspans. These are significant in why they’re able to do a lot of what they do. While 6’11” and 7’0” wingspan is good it’s not freakish and kawhi/giannis have freakish wingspans. So let’s compare noa with guys who have wingspans on the same planet.
Also worth noting that if masai had any say in the draft this year for Toronto he decided to pass on essengue. Maybe it means he doesn’t believe his length is freakish enough to overcome some of his deficiencies.
Agreed although Noa has a 7' 1" wingspan, he's still quite long for a PF but not as generationally freakish like Giannis & Kawhi. I believe he also had some of the widest hands measured this year, wider than Maluach's. TBH I did not see any Giannis comps so I wonder if we're just beating on a straw man. I liked the Tayshaun Prince comp, the other "best case" comp was Siakam. I never saw a report or even opinion saying even best case here is an MVP.
Masai didn't have final say, this year, it was Webster. Everyone had Noa mocked to Toronto based on Masai having final call. Webster is definitely not working on project kids, he drafted one of the most NBA ready guys in CMB and double downed on keeping Poeltl for over $100M. I do think a lot of people thought that if Masai was in charge of the draft they would have taken either Noa or Maluach.
Even CMB looked shocked the Raptors took him.
kodo wrote:Senor Chang wrote:One thing people are glossing over with the giannis comps just as they did with the pwill/ kawhi comps is wingspan. Kawhi and giannis have 7’3” wingspans. These are significant in why they’re able to do a lot of what they do. While 6’11” and 7’0” wingspan is good it’s not freakish and kawhi/giannis have freakish wingspans. So let’s compare noa with guys who have wingspans on the same planet.
Also worth noting that if masai had any say in the draft this year for Toronto he decided to pass on essengue. Maybe it means he doesn’t believe his length is freakish enough to overcome some of his deficiencies.
Agreed although Noa has a 7' 1" wingspan, he's still quite long for a PF but not as generationally freakish like Giannis & Kawhi. I believe he also had some of the widest hands measured this year, wider than Maluach's. TBH I did not see any Giannis comps so I wonder if we're just beating on a straw man. I liked the Tayshaun Prince comp, the other "best case" comp was Siakam. I never saw a report or even opinion saying even best case here is an MVP.
Masai didn't have final say, this year, it was Webster. Everyone had Noa mocked to Toronto based on Masai having final call. Webster is definitely not working on project kids, he drafted one of the most NBA ready guys in CMB and double downed on keeping Poeltl for over $100M. I do think a lot of people thought that if Masai was in charge of the draft they would have taken either Noa or Maluach.
Even CMB looked shocked the Raptors took him.
fleet wrote:kodo wrote:Senor Chang wrote:One thing people are glossing over with the giannis comps just as they did with the pwill/ kawhi comps is wingspan. Kawhi and giannis have 7’3” wingspans. These are significant in why they’re able to do a lot of what they do. While 6’11” and 7’0” wingspan is good it’s not freakish and kawhi/giannis have freakish wingspans. So let’s compare noa with guys who have wingspans on the same planet.
Also worth noting that if masai had any say in the draft this year for Toronto he decided to pass on essengue. Maybe it means he doesn’t believe his length is freakish enough to overcome some of his deficiencies.
Agreed although Noa has a 7' 1" wingspan, he's still quite long for a PF but not as generationally freakish like Giannis & Kawhi. I believe he also had some of the widest hands measured this year, wider than Maluach's. TBH I did not see any Giannis comps so I wonder if we're just beating on a straw man. I liked the Tayshaun Prince comp, the other "best case" comp was Siakam. I never saw a report or even opinion saying even best case here is an MVP.
Masai didn't have final say, this year, it was Webster. Everyone had Noa mocked to Toronto based on Masai having final call. Webster is definitely not working on project kids, he drafted one of the most NBA ready guys in CMB and double downed on keeping Poeltl for over $100M. I do think a lot of people thought that if Masai was in charge of the draft they would have taken either Noa or Maluach.
Even CMB looked shocked the Raptors took him.
I haven’t delved deeply into draft numbers in recent years. “Hand width” is a new one on me.
kodo wrote:Senor Chang wrote:One thing people are glossing over with the giannis comps just as they did with the pwill/ kawhi comps is wingspan. Kawhi and giannis have 7’3” wingspans. These are significant in why they’re able to do a lot of what they do. While 6’11” and 7’0” wingspan is good it’s not freakish and kawhi/giannis have freakish wingspans. So let’s compare noa with guys who have wingspans on the same planet.
Also worth noting that if masai had any say in the draft this year for Toronto he decided to pass on essengue. Maybe it means he doesn’t believe his length is freakish enough to overcome some of his deficiencies.
Agreed although Noa has a 7' 1" wingspan, he's still quite long for a PF but not as generationally freakish like Giannis & Kawhi. I believe he also had some of the widest hands measured this year, wider than Maluach's. TBH I did not see any Giannis comps so I wonder if we're just beating on a straw man. I liked the Tayshaun Prince comp, the other "best case" comp was Siakam. I never saw a report or even opinion saying even best case here is an MVP.
Masai didn't have final say, this year, it was Webster. Everyone had Noa mocked to Toronto based on Masai having final call. Webster is definitely not working on project kids, he drafted one of the most NBA ready guys in CMB and double downed on keeping Poeltl for over $100M. I do think a lot of people thought that if Masai was in charge of the draft they would have taken either Noa or Maluach. Even CMB looked shocked the Raptors took him.
I do love wingspan, but it shouldn't be a driving factor. I'm sure wingspan is why Matas dropped and these prospects were drafted ahead of him:
Tidjuane Saluan: 7' 2"
Cody Williams: 7' 1"
Ron Holland: 6' 11"
Buzelis: 6' 10"
Everyone drafting a SF ahead of Buzelis that year blew that draft. Ainge fired his entire draft team over that 2024.
I don't think Noa was a pure, best physical attributes pick. I think that was Joan Beringer, 7' 5" wingspan with better athleticism/agility than Maluach. I think Noa had good physicals but AK also looks for intangibles like his cutting, off-ball movement, connective passing on plays, etc.. These are all the things that Matas had over everyone else even though his stats sucked and his measurements were not elite.
wayoftheroad wrote:We’re getting bodied by Moochie Norris lmao
Senor Chang wrote:kodo wrote:Senor Chang wrote:One thing people are glossing over with the giannis comps just as they did with the pwill/ kawhi comps is wingspan. Kawhi and giannis have 7’3” wingspans. These are significant in why they’re able to do a lot of what they do. While 6’11” and 7’0” wingspan is good it’s not freakish and kawhi/giannis have freakish wingspans. So let’s compare noa with guys who have wingspans on the same planet.
Also worth noting that if masai had any say in the draft this year for Toronto he decided to pass on essengue. Maybe it means he doesn’t believe his length is freakish enough to overcome some of his deficiencies.
Agreed although Noa has a 7' 1" wingspan, he's still quite long for a PF but not as generationally freakish like Giannis & Kawhi. I believe he also had some of the widest hands measured this year, wider than Maluach's. TBH I did not see any Giannis comps so I wonder if we're just beating on a straw man. I liked the Tayshaun Prince comp, the other "best case" comp was Siakam. I never saw a report or even opinion saying even best case here is an MVP.
Masai didn't have final say, this year, it was Webster. Everyone had Noa mocked to Toronto based on Masai having final call. Webster is definitely not working on project kids, he drafted one of the most NBA ready guys in CMB and double downed on keeping Poeltl for over $100M. I do think a lot of people thought that if Masai was in charge of the draft they would have taken either Noa or Maluach. Even CMB looked shocked the Raptors took him.
I do love wingspan, but it shouldn't be a driving factor. I'm sure wingspan is why Matas dropped and these prospects were drafted ahead of him:
Tidjuane Saluan: 7' 2"
Cody Williams: 7' 1"
Ron Holland: 6' 11"
Buzelis: 6' 10"
Everyone drafting a SF ahead of Buzelis that year blew that draft. Ainge fired his entire draft team over that 2024.
I don't think Noa was a pure, best physical attributes pick. I think that was Joan Beringer, 7' 5" wingspan with better athleticism/agility than Maluach. I think Noa had good physicals but AK also looks for intangibles like his cutting, off-ball movement, connective passing on plays, etc.. These are all the things that Matas had over everyone else even though his stats sucked and his measurements were not elite.
Even siakim has a 7’3” wingspan. Most media outlets avoided the Giannis comparisons but we’re seeing it often among bulls fans online.
Matas may have a short wingspan for his height but he is more offensively skilled/talented than Essengue at this point. Matas succeeding doesn’t mean wingspan doesn’t matter. Jalen williams isn’t the defensive beast he is if his wingspan is 6’8” as oppose to 7’2”. Probably still good but 7’2” wingspan on a 6’5” guy is absolutely freakish.
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kodo wrote:Senor Chang wrote:One thing people are glossing over with the giannis comps just as they did with the pwill/ kawhi comps is wingspan. Kawhi and giannis have 7’3” wingspans. These are significant in why they’re able to do a lot of what they do. While 6’11” and 7’0” wingspan is good it’s not freakish and kawhi/giannis have freakish wingspans. So let’s compare noa with guys who have wingspans on the same planet.
Also worth noting that if masai had any say in the draft this year for Toronto he decided to pass on essengue. Maybe it means he doesn’t believe his length is freakish enough to overcome some of his deficiencies.
Agreed although Noa has a 7' 1" wingspan, he's still quite long for a PF but not as generationally freakish like Giannis & Kawhi. I believe he also had some of the widest hands measured this year, wider than Maluach's. TBH I did not see any Giannis comps so I wonder if we're just beating on a straw man. I liked the Tayshaun Prince comp, the other "best case" comp was Siakam. I never saw a report or even opinion saying even best case here is an MVP.
Masai didn't have final say, this year, it was Webster. Everyone had Noa mocked to Toronto based on Masai having final call. Webster is definitely not working on project kids, he drafted one of the most NBA ready guys in CMB and double downed on keeping Poeltl for over $100M. I do think a lot of people thought that if Masai was in charge of the draft they would have taken either Noa or Maluach. Even CMB looked shocked the Raptors took him.
I do love wingspan, but it shouldn't be a driving factor. I'm sure wingspan is why Matas dropped and these prospects were drafted ahead of him:
Tidjuane Saluan: 7' 2"
Cody Williams: 7' 1"
Ron Holland: 6' 11"
Buzelis: 6' 10"
Everyone drafting a SF ahead of Buzelis that year blew that draft. Ainge fired his entire draft team over that 2024.
I don't think Noa was a pure, best physical attributes pick. I think that was Joan Beringer, 7' 5" wingspan with better athleticism/agility than Maluach. I think Noa had good physicals but AK also looks for intangibles like his cutting, off-ball movement, connective passing on plays, etc.. These are all the things that Matas had over everyone else even though his stats sucked and his measurements were not elite.
wayoftheroad wrote:We’re getting bodied by Moochie Norris lmao
Senor Chang wrote:kodo wrote:Senor Chang wrote:One thing people are glossing over with the giannis comps just as they did with the pwill/ kawhi comps is wingspan. Kawhi and giannis have 7’3” wingspans. These are significant in why they’re able to do a lot of what they do. While 6’11” and 7’0” wingspan is good it’s not freakish and kawhi/giannis have freakish wingspans. So let’s compare noa with guys who have wingspans on the same planet.
Also worth noting that if masai had any say in the draft this year for Toronto he decided to pass on essengue. Maybe it means he doesn’t believe his length is freakish enough to overcome some of his deficiencies.
Agreed although Noa has a 7' 1" wingspan, he's still quite long for a PF but not as generationally freakish like Giannis & Kawhi. I believe he also had some of the widest hands measured this year, wider than Maluach's. TBH I did not see any Giannis comps so I wonder if we're just beating on a straw man. I liked the Tayshaun Prince comp, the other "best case" comp was Siakam. I never saw a report or even opinion saying even best case here is an MVP.
Masai didn't have final say, this year, it was Webster. Everyone had Noa mocked to Toronto based on Masai having final call. Webster is definitely not working on project kids, he drafted one of the most NBA ready guys in CMB and double downed on keeping Poeltl for over $100M. I do think a lot of people thought that if Masai was in charge of the draft they would have taken either Noa or Maluach. Even CMB looked shocked the Raptors took him.
I do love wingspan, but it shouldn't be a driving factor. I'm sure wingspan is why Matas dropped and these prospects were drafted ahead of him:
Tidjuane Saluan: 7' 2"
Cody Williams: 7' 1"
Ron Holland: 6' 11"
Buzelis: 6' 10"
Everyone drafting a SF ahead of Buzelis that year blew that draft. Ainge fired his entire draft team over that 2024.
I don't think Noa was a pure, best physical attributes pick. I think that was Joan Beringer, 7' 5" wingspan with better athleticism/agility than Maluach. I think Noa had good physicals but AK also looks for intangibles like his cutting, off-ball movement, connective passing on plays, etc.. These are all the things that Matas had over everyone else even though his stats sucked and his measurements were not elite.
And speaking of Salaun and Cody williams, they were both drafted based on potential due to their length. Are we going to crap on Essengue if he too is a project that has a less than stellar rookie year? Of course not. Id give those other guys the same chance to develop their game.
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), but seriously, guys with long arms, while having more reach to defend, often have more challenges with ball handling and shooting. Also, if you look at Noa (similar to Noah), he has very narrow shoulders, but he may have longer arms than some guys with longer wingspans. While big shoulders matter in terms of boxing out, narrow shoulders gives guys better ability to slip between guys when getting to the basket for shots and rebounds.
kodo wrote:Senor Chang wrote:One thing people are glossing over with the giannis comps just as they did with the pwill/ kawhi comps is wingspan. Kawhi and giannis have 7’3” wingspans. These are significant in why they’re able to do a lot of what they do. While 6’11” and 7’0” wingspan is good it’s not freakish and kawhi/giannis have freakish wingspans. So let’s compare noa with guys who have wingspans on the same planet.
Also worth noting that if masai had any say in the draft this year for Toronto he decided to pass on essengue. Maybe it means he doesn’t believe his length is freakish enough to overcome some of his deficiencies.
Agreed although Noa has a 7' 1" wingspan, he's still quite long for a PF but not as generationally freakish like Giannis & Kawhi. I believe he also had some of the widest hands measured this year, wider than Maluach's. TBH I did not see any Giannis comps so I wonder if we're just beating on a straw man. I liked the Tayshaun Prince comp, the other "best case" comp was Siakam. I never saw a report or even opinion saying even best case here is an MVP.
Masai didn't have final say, this year, it was Webster. Everyone had Noa mocked to Toronto based on Masai having final call. Webster is definitely not working on project kids, he drafted one of the most NBA ready guys in CMB and double downed on keeping Poeltl for over $100M. I do think a lot of people thought that if Masai was in charge of the draft they would have taken either Noa or Maluach. Even CMB looked shocked the Raptors took him.
I do love wingspan, but it shouldn't be a driving factor. I'm sure wingspan is why Matas dropped and these prospects were drafted ahead of him:
Tidjuane Saluan: 7' 2"
Cody Williams: 7' 1"
Ron Holland: 6' 11"
Buzelis: 6' 10"
Everyone drafting a SF ahead of Buzelis that year blew that draft. Ainge fired his entire draft team over that 2024.
I don't think Noa was a pure, best physical attributes pick. I think that was Joan Beringer, 7' 5" wingspan with better athleticism/agility than Maluach. I think Noa had good physicals but AK also looks for intangibles like his cutting, off-ball movement, connective passing on plays, etc.. These are all the things that Matas had over everyone else even though his stats sucked and his measurements were not elite.
GoBlue72391 wrote:Senor Chang wrote:One thing people are glossing over with the giannis comps just as they did with the pwill/ kawhi comps is wingspan. Kawhi and giannis have 7’3” wingspans. These are significant in why they’re able to do a lot of what they do. While 6’11” and 7’0” wingspan is good it’s not freakish and kawhi/giannis have freakish wingspans. So let’s compare noa with guys who have wingspans on the same planet.
Also worth noting that if masai had any say in the draft this year for Toronto he decided to pass on essengue. Maybe it means he doesn’t believe his length is freakish enough to overcome some of his deficiencies.
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I said the exact same on draft night and was crucified for it. Good but not great length.
Indomitable wrote:GoBlue72391 wrote:Senor Chang wrote:One thing people are glossing over with the giannis comps just as they did with the pwill/ kawhi comps is wingspan. Kawhi and giannis have 7’3” wingspans. These are significant in why they’re able to do a lot of what they do. While 6’11” and 7’0” wingspan is good it’s not freakish and kawhi/giannis have freakish wingspans. So let’s compare noa with guys who have wingspans on the same planet.
Also worth noting that if masai had any say in the draft this year for Toronto he decided to pass on essengue. Maybe it means he doesn’t believe his length is freakish enough to overcome some of his deficiencies.
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I said the exact same on draft night and was crucified for it. Good but not great length.
Nobody crucified you.
kulaz3000 wrote:
Strenghts: Athletic wing with a remarkable 7’3” wingspan of and incredibly huge hands … He’s still in the development stage and has grown three inches since last year … Standing 6’9”, he has amazing mobility and body control for a guy his height … He’s able to change directions off the dribble and with the ball in his hands with incredible smoothness and quickness, getting to the rim while maintaining excellent balance … His athleticism and wingspan make him able to cover 4 positions on the floor, showing great versatility … He has a natural feel for the game and a good basketball IQ, with good passing skills and instincts and the potential to become a point forward at the next level … Thanks to his big hands and his creativity, he’s an amazing ball handler for his position … He’s unstoppable with momentum, especially during secondary transition, when he can exploit his amazing mobility starting from the dribble … This year during youth games and Greek second division games, he showed the ability to start from one end after the rebound and go coast to coast and get to the rim with 2-3 dribbles, with incredible smoothness and speed … He shows good potential to improve as a shooter even if it’s his main shortcoming at the moment … On the defensive end he has great instincts in the passing lanes and in help situations, often with perfect timing for blocks from the blind side … With his physical tools he could easily guard opposing wings, showing the potential to defend both guards and power forwards, depending match ups. He’s still raw in many perspectives, but his ceiling and upside are the highest among the internationals of this 2013 draft …
Weaknesses: His level of competition is a big concern, because it makes judging his talent and current level very difficult. Without question he has a large basement to go with his large ceiling … Despite his athletic abilities he lacks elite explosiveness … He has to bulk up, working especially in the lower body since he’s definitely too skinny to face NBA opponents at the moment … The concern is how to develop him correctly from the muscular standpoint, in order to avoid loss of speed and mobility (Boris Diaw) … His game off the ball is rather weak, especially related to spacing and use of screens and cuts, in fact most of his offensive production happens with the ball in his hands … The only exception is when he’s slashing to the basket for put backs or on the break … Plus he basically has no mid-range game, he tends to attack the rim without considering the option of the pull up jumper … He shot 31.3 % from three point line this year, showing good potential, but he lacks consistency at this point, his mechanics seems unnatural and not fluent … On the defensive side, he needs to learn the basis, since he’s beaten by the opponents due a lack of proper positioning and comprehension … The overall impression is of a raw prospect from basketball comprehension standpoint, whose is based on instincts, talent, physical gifts and natural feel for the game. For this reason he needs to be tested at a higher level of competition than Greek second division, since his level of experience is definitely low.