Josh Giddey Thread 2.0

[dougthonus]

You're blurring concepts. There's a difference between building a team around Giddey - which, to be clear, the Bulls are certainly doing - and having succeeded in completing a rebuild around Giddey. No, I absolutely do not believe that Giddey, Coby, Matas and a complete question mark in Noa, without more, is going to be good. The acquisition of shooting and more defenders (I project Matas and Noa as plus defenders) is a process. The Bulls just shifted to a Giddey-themed rebuild (for lack of a better term) 4 months ago. If done properly, it will take several years from now and multiple moves.

Coby is a guy that doesn't fit next to Giddey, Matas and Noa are guys I'd like the same next to Giddey or not, and neither one is a guy I feel is a perfect fit next to Giddey. As prospects, I'd want guys both to be good shooters. Matas showed good improvement, but was 29% shooter as a prospect. Both these guys are just high upside prospects.

For me, if I were to order the things you need around Giddey to build a team around him, it would be:
1: A rim protecting center
2: Good three point shooters
3: Good wing defenders
4: Athletic players

I think relative to the league average, we are deficient in points #1, #2, and #3.

EDIT: We do have a 3-D player, Okoro. Its part of the evidence we are building around Giddey. If we weren't, we wouldn't have traded Ball yet. And in doing so, we targeted one of the exact things we need with Giddey.

Okoro is not a shooter, he got played out of the playoffs because of his inability to shoot. Teams just left him alone to double guys.

Do I think having two very long, very athletic, extremely fast, bouncy, full-court 3/4 hybrids filling lanes on the break and covering ground defensively in the half court behind Giddey's back are logical to that formula? Yes. Would I prefer that Noa have a 3 ball in place and ready to go? Yes. But we picked 12th. Given what AK is forcing himself to work with, I think the guys he picked at 11 and 12 the last two drafts are fantastic, unique pieces (in theory) for a team developed around Giddey's strengths and weaknesses.

I love both prospects, and if they develop into their best versions of themselves, they'll fit next to anyone IMO, not guys that you get to be by Giddey, and I agree, I don't think we had like tons of choices or anything, I think we just took the best guys we could, and I like both guys as picks in that mold.

Maybe its just me, but when you say the 6'8 PG who pushes pace like a Ferrari and is one of the most creative, effective passers in the NBA won't "unlock" two raw rim-running, full-court athletes who love to play that way, it doesn't feel like an objective analysis of the personnel. You see it differently, okay.

I think there is a difference between them developing a greater array of skills, and Giddey getting them more easy transition buckets that pump up their stats. I think they will have better statistical profiles as players in an uptempo Giddey offense for sure, but I think that is separate from the players being able to reach their upside potential in terms of skill development / player development.

The rest of it is just me taking into consideration things I know they will consider, and you saying they shouldn't consider it. I don't disagree with you. Its just that I'm not analyzing a hypothetical. In the real world with human beings who do more than run probability algorithms, Josh Giddey has some leverage of his own. Should he? I guess I don't really care either way. He just does.

I'm not analyzing what AK is doing. I'm stating what AK should be doing. I agree completely that he will take these things into account. He should not, and he absolutely does not have to. Giddey obviously has some leverage, we're only arguing degrees. If he had no leverage, we could sign him for the vet minimum, but as a real obvious point, he has the leverage of the QO, he has the leverage of a wide open FA market next year, and he has the leverage that he's a talented basketball player that we should want to keep.

All those things are true, I mean I wish I had the leverage where someone was debating whether to pay me 100 or 150 million over the next five years, that's obviously a lot of leverage. I actually am not worried about leverage at all really. I'm only worried about doing the thing that I think will be the best for the Bulls building a 50+ win team. To me, Giddey at 30M doesn't help with that goal, 25M a year probably does (particularly if you can structure it descending).

I don't actually think that's a massive gap between the two of our views relative the amount of discussion, but it's funny if you think how much fans argue about it, I can't imagine how the Bulls and Giddey are arguing about it

[Red Larrivee]

Coby is a guy that doesn't fit next to Giddey, Matas and Noa are guys I'd like the same next to Giddey or not, and neither one is a guy I feel is a perfect fit next to Giddey. As prospects, I'd want guys both to be good shooters. Matas showed good improvement, but was 29% shooter as a prospect. Both these guys are just high upside prospects.

Why doesn't Coby fit with Giddey? Their 2-man lineup was +9.7 after the break. They played together in 7 of the 25 most used lineups after the break. 5 of those lineups had a positive net rating.

Okoro is not a shooter, he got played out of the playoffs because of his inability to shoot. Teams just left him alone to double guys

Last playoffs, he made 38% of his 3s with a 3PAr of 53.3. The last two seasons he has a 3PAr of 50.7 and has made 38% of his 3s.

Teams may be logically comfortable letting him shoot, but it doesn't mean he can't make the shot. His three is significantly improved.

[League Circles]

You're blurring concepts. There's a difference between building a team around Giddey - which, to be clear, the Bulls are certainly doing - and having succeeded in completing a rebuild around Giddey. No, I absolutely do not believe that Giddey, Coby, Matas and a complete question mark in Noa, without more, is going to be good. The acquisition of shooting and more defenders (I project Matas and Noa as plus defenders) is a process. The Bulls just shifted to a Giddey-themed rebuild (for lack of a better term) 4 months ago. If done properly, it will take several years from now and multiple moves.

Coby is a guy that doesn't fit next to Giddey, Matas and Noa are guys I'd like the same next to Giddey or not, and neither one is a guy I feel is a perfect fit next to Giddey. As prospects, I'd want guys both to be good shooters. Matas showed good improvement, but was 29% shooter as a prospect. Both these guys are just high upside prospects.

For me, if I were to order the things you need around Giddey to build a team around him, it would be:
1: A rim protecting center
2: Good three point shooters
3: Good wing defenders
4: Athletic players

I think relative to the league average, we are deficient in points #1, #2, and #3.

EDIT: We do have a 3-D player, Okoro. Its part of the evidence we are building around Giddey. If we weren't, we wouldn't have traded Ball yet. And in doing so, we targeted one of the exact things we need with Giddey.

Okoro is not a shooter, he got played out of the playoffs because of his inability to shoot. Teams just left him alone to double guys.

Do I think having two very long, very athletic, extremely fast, bouncy, full-court 3/4 hybrids filling lanes on the break and covering ground defensively in the half court behind Giddey's back are logical to that formula? Yes. Would I prefer that Noa have a 3 ball in place and ready to go? Yes. But we picked 12th. Given what AK is forcing himself to work with, I think the guys he picked at 11 and 12 the last two drafts are fantastic, unique pieces (in theory) for a team developed around Giddey's strengths and weaknesses.

I love both prospects, and if they develop into their best versions of themselves, they'll fit next to anyone IMO, not guys that you get to be by Giddey, and I agree, I don't think we had like tons of choices or anything, I think we just took the best guys we could, and I like both guys as picks in that mold.

Maybe its just me, but when you say the 6'8 PG who pushes pace like a Ferrari and is one of the most creative, effective passers in the NBA won't "unlock" two raw rim-running, full-court athletes who love to play that way, it doesn't feel like an objective analysis of the personnel. You see it differently, okay.

I think there is a difference between them developing a greater array of skills, and Giddey getting them more easy transition buckets that pump up their stats. I think they will have better statistical profiles as players in an uptempo Giddey offense for sure, but I think that is separate from the players being able to reach their upside potential in terms of skill development / player development.

The rest of it is just me taking into consideration things I know they will consider, and you saying they shouldn't consider it. I don't disagree with you. Its just that I'm not analyzing a hypothetical. In the real world with human beings who do more than run probability algorithms, Josh Giddey has some leverage of his own. Should he? I guess I don't really care either way. He just does.

I'm not analyzing what AK is doing. I'm stating what AK should be doing. I agree completely that he will take these things into account. He should not, and he absolutely does not have to. Giddey obviously has some leverage, we're only arguing degrees. If he had no leverage, we could sign him for the vet minimum, but as a real obvious point, he has the leverage of the QO, he has the leverage of a wide open FA market next year, and he has the leverage that he's a talented basketball player that we should want to keep.

All those things are true, I mean I wish I had the leverage where someone was debating whether to pay me 100 or 150 million over the next five years, that's obviously a lot of leverage. I actually am not worried about leverage at all really. I'm only worried about doing the thing that I think will be the best for the Bulls building a 50+ win team. To me, Giddey at 30M doesn't help with that goal, 25M a year probably does (particularly if you can structure it descending).

I don't actually think that's a massive gap between the two of our views relative the amount of discussion, but it's funny if you think how much fans argue about it, I can't imagine how the Bulls and Giddey are arguing about it

IMO we're definitely not deficient in wing defenders, especially not outside of Giddey. Okoro projects to start and is a strong defender. Ayo, Patrick, and Terry are all plus defenders on the wing too.

I would call Smith a solid rim protecting C, though he's admittedly the only one we have. He was 23rd in the league in blocks/36 and of the guys ahead of him, only 3 in the entire league also averages more rebounds/36 than him. He's definitely above average as a rim protecting C IMO. Not by a ton and yes only by himself, but he is that.

[DASMACKDOWN]

Utah having cap space doesn't concern me because Danny Ainge never pulls the trigger. He hasn't brought in anyone since he has taken the job. He just sells off and collects picks. That's all he does even in his Boston days at the end.

But we just have to be smart here with Giddey.

5/150 is the absolute max that we should go. Preferably less. And its not because Giddey isn't worth it or anything like that. Its because the Ownership of this team is the cheapest in the league.

They will never willingly go into the luxury tax unless we have a global superstar like Derrick Rose. The pressure will be too great not to do so.

But since the front office refuses to do whatever it takes to give us the chance to get the next Derrick, they are basically playing luck and hope.

[dougthonus]

Why doesn't Coby fit with Giddey? Their 2-man lineup was +9.7 after the break. They played together in 7 of the 25 most used lineups after the break. 5 of those lineups had a positive net rating.

I don't want to get into a long argument of how much I hate the +/- statistic, especially in small sample sizes, so I will say I don't want both of my starting backcourt guys to be minus defenders. I don't think that's a good start to a team. It's fine when those guys are really talented and combine to make 20M, but when those guys are on new contracts and collectively might make 50-60M, that's not going to be a great pairing.

Last playoffs, he made 38% of his 3s with a 3PAr of 53.3. The last two seasons he has a 3PAr of 50.7 and has made 38% of his 3s.

Teams may be logically comfortable letting him shoot, but it doesn't mean he can't make the shot. His three is significantly improved.

38% when no one defends you isn't an advantage to your team. 3PAr as a percentage isn't meaningful when your overall number of shots is still low and no one is guarding you.

Okoro played 6 minutes less per game in the playoffs than the regular season, and it was because teams just left him alone to play 5-4 on everyone else. Maybe that was a poor decision by their coach, and they should have stuck with Okoro and fed him more shots until he punished the other team enough to make them stop.

If you think differently, I'd recommend asking some Cleveland fans if they feel Okoro is a good shooter. FWIW, I'm fine with Okoro as a player and think it was a fine short term acquisition (I wouldn't be lookin to make short term acquisitions, but as a talent I like him). I just wouldn't describe him as a shooter.

[League Circles]

so I will say I don't want both of my starting backcourt guys to be minus defenders. I don't think that's a good start to a team.

Well our starting backcourt guys will be Coby and either Okoro or Ayo, so you don't have to worry about that. Giddey has never been and never will be a guard. He is much more acceptable guarding bigger, stronger, slower players than he is guarding quicker guards. No surprise at 6'-8".

[dougthonus]

so I will say I don't want both of my starting backcourt guys to be minus defenders. I don't think that's a good start to a team.

Well our starting backcourt guys will be Coby and either Okoro or Ayo, so you don't have to worry about that. Giddey has never been and never will be a guard. He is much more acceptable guarding bigger, stronger, slower players than he is guarding quicker guards. No surprise at 6'-8".

How about I will rephrase it that I don't want two of my three perimeter players to be below average defenders.

[Red Larrivee]

I don't want to get into a long argument of how much I hate the +/- statistic, especially in small sample sizes, so I will say I don't want both of my starting backcourt guys to be minus defenders. I don't think that's a good start to a team. It's fine when those guys are really talented and combine to make 20M, but when those guys are on new contracts and collectively might make 50-60M, that's not going to be a great pairing.

I get it from that view. I do think that because Giddey is the size of a SF and can crossmatch on to a number of positions, that it negates some of that vulnerability. Your backcourt defensively is essentially White/Okoro or whoever the 3 is.

That said, I would love to start a better defender than Coby in the long run.

38% when no one defends you isn't an advantage to your team. 3PAr as a percentage isn't meaningful when your overall number of shots is still low and no one is guarding you.

Okoro played 6 minutes less per game in the playoffs than the regular season, and it was because teams just left him alone to play 5-4 on everyone else. Maybe that was a poor decision by their coach, and they should have stuck with Okoro and fed him more shots until he punished the other team enough to make them stop.

If you think differently, I'd recommend asking some Cleveland fans if they feel Okoro is a good shooter. FWIW, I'm fine with Okoro as a player and think it was a fine short term acquisition (I wouldn't be lookin to make short term acquisitions, but as a talent I like him). I just wouldn't describe him as a shooter.

There's nuance. Someone can be a competent shooter, which Okoro is, and still be a vulnerable piece on offense, which Okoro is. No team would want every possession boiling down to Okoro taking a wide open 3 because their star player is getting doubled. But, based on percentages, you know that he can make the shot. It's just not the ideal possession you want repeatedly especially when you have the players Cleveland does.

He's not Ronnie Brewer for example, where he simply could not take or make a 3. That is a non-shooter.

Okoro's 3PAr last season was 56.6 and his att/p36 were 5.2. He's not a low volume shooter. When he's in the game, he's getting a good amount of threes up in a short amount of time. But to credit what you're saying, he doesn't play a lot of minutes. So, his per/game averages are low.

[League Circles]

so I will say I don't want both of my starting backcourt guys to be minus defenders. I don't think that's a good start to a team.

Well our starting backcourt guys will be Coby and either Okoro or Ayo, so you don't have to worry about that. Giddey has never been and never will be a guard. He is much more acceptable guarding bigger, stronger, slower players than he is guarding quicker guards. No surprise at 6'-8".

How about I will rephrase it that I don't want two of my three perimeter players to be below average defenders.

I would accept that lol.

Point taken, and I don't disagree too much. I think the only chance Giddey + Coby has of being a tandem on a high level starting unit is with 3 strong defenders flanking them. Matas looks like he'll be that. Okoro could too (though he may not be good enough offensively). IMO Jalen Smith is in the neighborhood of what we'd need defensively at the 5, but he's not there. He'll need to continue to improve or be upgraded. But we do still have multiple contingencies for Okoro. Obviously Essengue projects as a strong defender. If he becomes good enough to start it would be interesting to see who from among Matas, Noa and Giddey typically guards the quickest players ("guards"). But I wouldn't rule out Matas or Noa essentially becoming our "2" defensively full time. Or possibly Noa at C in a permanent small ball lineup.

But not only Noa. IMO, believe it or not, Ayo, Patrick, Terry and Phillips should not be written off as our possible future starting defensive 2. Ayo if not traded will get a good shot. Patrick is more of a 3/4 but can he not defend opposing 2s better than Giddey still? Terry can guard anyone well if he can limit his fouling. Phillips is the Patrick archetype.

Now I'm not saying any of these guys will be as good as we need to be at the contender level with this core, but we have the right quantity of the right archetype to play with Giddey and Coby, IMO. Just need one or two of them to step up, or find a trade, draft, or FA upgrade.

[dougthonus]

There's nuance. Someone can be a competent shooter, which Okoro is, and still be a vulnerable piece on offense, which Okoro is. No team would want every possession boiling down to Okoro taking a wide open 3 because their star player is getting doubled. But, based on percentages, you know that he can make the shot. It's just not the ideal possession you want repeatedly especially when you have the players Cleveland does.

He's not Ronnie Brewer for example, where he simply could not take or make a 3. That is a non-shooter.

Okoro's 3PAr last season was 56.6 and his att/p36 were 5.2. He's not a low volume shooter. When he's in the game, he's getting a good amount of threes up in a short amount of time. But to credit what you're saying, he doesn't play a lot of minutes. So, his per/game averages are low.

Certainly I agree that Okoro is a better shooter than Ronnie Brewer, I don't know that Ronnie Brewer's really exist much in this league anymore.

I tend to look at how much gravity a guy creates or negates as the important factor here, and like Giddey, Okoro is an anti-gravity guy. People actively leave him alone. I think almost all players in the league can now shoot 35%+ if you leave them wide open and don't defend them at the three point line, but if you are shooting sub 40% when someone does not guard you, that still has a really negative impact on your team.

I think having two anti-gravity players, and only one gravity creating player (Coby) is a really challenging situation. It is mitigated by the fact that Giddey will often have the ball (so not always a factor) and a play style of trying to get as much in transition as possible where gravity doesn't matter, but I don't think those are things that can scale up to 50+ win teams. Those are things that can raise your floor and lower your ceiling which is my general concern with Giddey.

Again though, that is all a matter of price and degrees. Like I would imagine everyone here would take Giddey at the MLE, and I imagine no one here wants him on a max deal. So we all agree he's an above average but below max guy and where to slice that line isn't really THAT big a difference between most people, like probably most people are in the 25-30M AAV range with the fringes on the low side at 20M and fringes on the high side at 35M.

I'd put myself on the low end of non fringe people (25M), and could probably get talked up to 26-27M as long as we go 5 years and make it a descending deal.

[dougthonus]

Point taken, and I don't disagree too much. I think the only chance Giddey + Coby has of being a tandem on a high level starting unit is with 3 strong defenders flanking them. Matas looks like he'll be that. Okoro could too (though he may not be good enough offensively). IMO Jalen Smith is in the neighborhood of what we'd need defensively at the 5, but he's not there.

People seem to have a really poor opinion of Jalen Smith's defense, frequent missed rotations, not playing in the scheme. His skills certainly look good, not sure if the other areas can be coached up.

He'll need to continue to improve or be upgraded. But we do still have multiple contingencies for Okoro. Obviously Essengue projects as a strong defender. If he becomes good enough to start it would be interesting to see who from among Matas, Noa and Giddey typically guards the quickest players ("guards"). But I wouldn't rule out Matas or Noa essentially becoming our "2" defensively full time. Or possibly Noa at C in a permanent small ball lineup.

But not only Noa. IMO, believe it or not, Ayo, Patrick, Terry and Phillips should not be written off as our possible future starting defensive 2. Ayo if not traded will get a good shot. Patrick is more of a 3/4 but can he not defend opposing 2s better than Giddey still? Terry can guard anyone well if he can limit his fouling. Phillips is the Patrick archetype.

Now I'm not saying any of these guys will be as good as we need to be at the contender level with this core, but we have the right quantity of the right archetype to play with Giddey and Coby, IMO. Just need one or two of them to step up, or find a trade, draft, or FA upgrade.

For this team to work, you basically need Noa and Matas to be stars.

[WesPeace]

Giddey, White, Okoro, Buzelis is fine part of the possible starting lineup - 1 very good defender, 1 solid defender can cover a bit for Josh and Coby! If we upgrade on center as well, that lineup certainly is compatible. Maybe even PWill finally shocks us and wins the SF spot with better physics, leaner, faster body again.

Noa I think is one year away from starting spot and I'm still not sure I like the fit with Matas on wings,as Matas to me is perfect PF going forward and Noa I cant see as SF to be honest. I could see him more as Matas backup, maybe some minutes somehow on wings together or if Noa bulks up that much,that he could play C in next years. Very mobile athletic center..

[Chi town]

[

For this team to work, you basically need Noa and Matas to be stars.

That would certainly help but the end all be all.

Coby could take another step. So could Giddey. If they keep that FT rate they both look good.

Adding defenders in Okoro and Tre could really help lift the D and easy offense.

We could add a stud defensive C that lifts the whole unit and makes Coby and Giddey average.

[burlydee]

The Bulls are not building a team around Giddey. They are building a team with Giddey.

[Chi town]

[

For this team to work, you basically need Noa and Matas to be stars.

That would certainly help but the end all be all.

Coby could take another step. So could Giddey. If they keep that FT rate they both look good.

Adding defenders in Okoro and Tre could really help lift the D and easy offense.

We could add a stud defensive C that lifts the whole unit and makes Coby and Giddey average.

[TheJordanRule]

Coby is a guy that doesn't fit next to Giddey, Matas and Noa are guys I'd like the same next to Giddey or not, and neither one is a guy I feel is a perfect fit next to Giddey. As prospects, I'd want guys both to be good shooters. Matas showed good improvement, but was 29% shooter as a prospect. Both these guys are just high upside prospects.

Why doesn't Coby fit with Giddey? Their 2-man lineup was +9.7 after the break. They played together in 7 of the 25 most used lineups after the break. 5 of those lineups had a positive net rating.

Okoro is not a shooter, he got played out of the playoffs because of his inability to shoot. Teams just left him alone to double guys

Last playoffs, he made 38% of his 3s with a 3PAr of 53.3. The last two seasons he has a 3PAr of 50.7 and has made 38% of his 3s.

Teams may be logically comfortable letting him shoot, but it doesn't mean he can't make the shot. His three is significantly improved.

You propose a fascinating angle, Red. Coby has made strides on defense since his laughably bad rookie season (from a defense-focused perspective). What you're saying is that his offense is so lit and his defensive issues so small, that he is a net positive now even when he plays with Giddey. I don't understand how the stats bear that out. Two guys who have such big defensive issues usually aren't able to pull that off, even when they are in the midst of a hot random streak. It's like getting on a leaky ship and somehow surviving going through 100 foot waves. What?!

[Red8911]

The Giddey- Coby back court is fine so is the fit. The only concern or question is mostly Coby the player especially when you have to pay him a big contract which is not an easy call to make.

Other than that there’s really no problem in terms of fit.Coby might not be a defensive specialist but he’s not completely useless either, he’s no Zach on that end. Also they both compliment each other well on offense. I don’t see why anyone would even bring this up as an issue.

[DuckIII]

Interesting discussion. I guess if I had one point to reiterate here, its that we started the process of building around Giddey 4 months ago. Its going to take at least two more years to see what that will look like. They aren't doing it all at once, but its impossible for me to understand how someone can say that is not what is happening. Admittedly its through KC, but the Bulls have basically acknowledged that the plan is to build a team that blends with Giddey's style of play.

Does that include getting a mobile rim protecting center? Definitely. Does the absence of one today 4 months into the rebuild mean we aren't going to get one? Of course not.

And really, I don't want all these needs addressed right now. That's exactly the kind of mistake I'd expect AK to make, but he hasn't made it. I want weaknesses for a year to limit our win total. I don't want to shore up that stuff this year any more than we already have. I suspect we will to some extent, because I still expect at least one trade. But ideally we just let this new core evolve for a year without any more artificial short term "solutions."

[Red Larrivee]

Coby is a guy that doesn't fit next to Giddey, Matas and Noa are guys I'd like the same next to Giddey or not, and neither one is a guy I feel is a perfect fit next to Giddey. As prospects, I'd want guys both to be good shooters. Matas showed good improvement, but was 29% shooter as a prospect. Both these guys are just high upside prospects.

Why doesn't Coby fit with Giddey? Their 2-man lineup was +9.7 after the break. They played together in 7 of the 25 most used lineups after the break. 5 of those lineups had a positive net rating.

Okoro is not a shooter, he got played out of the playoffs because of his inability to shoot. Teams just left him alone to double guys

Last playoffs, he made 38% of his 3s with a 3PAr of 53.3. The last two seasons he has a 3PAr of 50.7 and has made 38% of his 3s.

Teams may be logically comfortable letting him shoot, but it doesn't mean he can't make the shot. His three is significantly improved.

You propose a fascinating angle, Red. Coby has made strides on defense since his laughably bad rookie season (from a defense-focused perspective). What you're saying is that his offense is so lit and his defensive issues so small, that he is a net positive now even when he plays with Giddey. I don't understand how the stats bear that out. Two guys who have such big defensive issues usually aren't able to pull that off, even when they are in the midst of a hot random streak. It's like getting on a leaky ship and somehow surviving going through 100 foot waves. What?!

Don't get me wrong, I think their collective defense is an issue. But, after the LaVine trade their offense together was just so good and efficient that it didn't seem to matter. We were clearly better with them on the court at the same time.

I think in the short-term, you can get away with crossmatching to some extent, but long-term you're going to need two good defenders at the 2/3 to really get stuff going. And that 2 is going to have to chase PGs around. That may be the vision behind trading for Okoro, but he's not a clear starter.

[Indomitable]

Coby is a guy that doesn't fit next to Giddey, Matas and Noa are guys I'd like the same next to Giddey or not, and neither one is a guy I feel is a perfect fit next to Giddey. As prospects, I'd want guys both to be good shooters. Matas showed good improvement, but was 29% shooter as a prospect. Both these guys are just high upside prospects.

Why doesn't Coby fit with Giddey? Their 2-man lineup was +9.7 after the break. They played together in 7 of the 25 most used lineups after the break. 5 of those lineups had a positive net rating.

Okoro is not a shooter, he got played out of the playoffs because of his inability to shoot. Teams just left him alone to double guys

Last playoffs, he made 38% of his 3s with a 3PAr of 53.3. The last two seasons he has a 3PAr of 50.7 and has made 38% of his 3s.

Teams may be logically comfortable letting him shoot, but it doesn't mean he can't make the shot. His three is significantly improved.

Lu Dort was that guy.