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Offseason 2025 Thread

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Re: Offseason 2025 Thread 

Post#1141 » by LofJ » Mon Jul 14, 2025 9:59 pm

fatlever wrote:I sometimes think people underestimate just what a barebones inept trainwreck **** the new owners and new front office inherited. That is not something that can be undone in 18 months.


It's not something that can be fixed in 18 months. But it's hard to take anything they say seriously when they trade away the starting and backup centers and replace them with Plumlee and a rookie.

Why should we have any faith that new ownership wants this team to be anything more than a farm team that makes them money? Yeah, they're renovating the arena and building a real training facility. But the city itself and Jordan got the ball rolling on that. What are THEY actually doing to convince fans that this is a serious organization?
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Re: Offseason 2025 Thread 

Post#1142 » by Bassman » Mon Jul 14, 2025 10:02 pm

Okogie is as good as gone. When the “Hornets plan to waive XXXXXX if they cannot find a trading partner by…” postings hit, that player is outta here. Jeffie really thought he had some friggin master plan going where he’d sign FA’s and trade for guards, then consolidate….easy peasy.

OOPPS. :-? :noway:

Our free agents are official as of today (Dimwit, Plumber and Da Mann).

I still can’t believe Jeffie screwed up our center position so badly in one offseason. It’s the talk of the NBA. That comment by Paul George about how HORRIBLE players perceive Charlotte as an organization….JUST BRUTAL. Even with a new regime, there is no confidence or trust in them. Goals are great but talk is cheap. Go get a real starting center Jeffie. That’s how I’m judging your offseason. These other trades and signings….background shuffling until we can play with a real center starting on this team. (No offense Kalk but you’re a rookie. No offense Moose, but you’re NOT a center. No offense Plumber, but you’re…just not that).
I continue to wait...and hope...for the return to Hornet's glory.
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Re: Offseason 2025 Thread 

Post#1143 » by JustBuzzin » Mon Jul 14, 2025 10:12 pm

Bassman wrote:Okogie is as good as gone. When the “Hornets plan to waive XXXXXX if they cannot find a trading partner by…” postings hit, that player is outta here. Jeffie really thought he had some friggin master plan going where he’d sign FA’s and trade for guards, then consolidate….easy peasy.

OOPPS. :-? :noway:

Our free agents are official as of today (Dimwit, Plumber and Da Mann).

I still can’t believe Jeffie screwed up our center position so badly in one offseason. It’s the talk of the NBA. That comment by Paul George about how HORRIBLE players perceive Charlotte as an organization….JUST BRUTAL. Even with a new regime, there is no confidence or trust in them. Goals are great but talk is cheap. Go get a real starting center Jeffie. That’s how I’m judging your offseason. These other trades and signings….background shuffling until we can play with a real center starting on this team. (No offense Kalk but you’re a rookie. No offense Moose, but you’re NOT a center. No offense Plumber, but you’re…just not that).

What hurts is PG said Charlotte is a city he could see himself living in, but he would never consider playing here because the franchise has been so awful. Even the hometown kid CP3 turned us down this off-season.

We had some success in the 90's, but that didn't last long. It feels like we have been in the slammer ever since. Sure we had a couple of playoff appearances throughout those decades, but nothing that was consistent.

We thought new ownership would help, but so far it's been more of the same. We stocking up on picks hopefully it comes with a major move down the line.
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Re: Offseason 2025 Thread 

Post#1144 » by MasterIchiro » Mon Jul 14, 2025 10:15 pm

LofJ wrote:
fatlever wrote:I sometimes think people underestimate just what a barebones inept trainwreck **** the new owners and new front office inherited. That is not something that can be undone in 18 months.


It's not something that can be fixed in 18 months. But it's hard to take anything they say seriously when they trade away the starting and backup centers and replace them with Plumlee and a rookie.

Why should we have any faith that new ownership wants this team to be anything more than a farm team that makes them money? Yeah, they're renovating the arena and building a real training facility. But the city itself and Jordan got the ball rolling on that. What are THEY actually doing to convince fans that this is a serious organization?


Let's see.

In order to fix this "trainwreck" the bankers and their pet "inherited" (including LaMelo, Miller, Miles, Mann, Mark, plus all 4 Hornets 1sts + 2 outside 1sts + no negative contracts), let's take on a negative asset (Josh Green), draft Salaün, draft Kon, downgrade center and reacquire Plumlee to ensure LaMelo doesn't have a viable starting center!

Fantastic job Jeff.

You fixed everything!
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Re: Offseason 2025 Thread 

Post#1145 » by yosemiteben » Mon Jul 14, 2025 10:17 pm

JustBuzzin wrote:We thought new ownership would help, but so far it's been more of the same. We stocking up on picks hopefully it comes with a major move down the line.

The ownership and FO experience has been night and day different. Much more proactive, and building assets instead of giving them away.

I don't understand looking at all the **** we've done in the last 18 months and coming away with "this is more of the same" as your take.

I'm not saying people have to be happy with their approach or even agree with the general philosophy of how they want to build, but it's definitely not more of the same. We've never built like this.
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Re: Offseason 2025 Thread 

Post#1146 » by MasterIchiro » Mon Jul 14, 2025 10:20 pm

Which good player has the new group added to the team?

Sexton.

2 years.

Sexton.
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Re: Offseason 2025 Thread 

Post#1147 » by yosemiteben » Mon Jul 14, 2025 10:28 pm

MasterIchiro wrote:Which good player has the new group added to the team?

Sexton.

2 years.

Sexton.

I think Mann, Micic (who became Nurk, who became Sexton), Grant Williams, Moussa, and like 6 1sts all came under new ownership.
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Re: Offseason 2025 Thread 

Post#1148 » by KembaWalker » Mon Jul 14, 2025 10:28 pm

It’s 2 years in and I haven’t really seen a single shred of evidence that these owners care about anything other than raking in Charlotte government handouts and getting a cut of revenue sharing to be a punching bag.

It still funny to me that they can’t even recruit a jersey sponsor.
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Re: Offseason 2025 Thread 

Post#1149 » by yosemiteben » Mon Jul 14, 2025 10:29 pm

KembaWalker wrote:It’s 2 years in and I haven’t really seen a single shred of evidence that these owners care about anything other than raking in Charlotte government handouts and getting a cut of revenue sharing to be a punching bag.

It still funny to me that they can’t even recruit a jersey sponsor.

I think if all they cared about was money, they'd have one.
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Re: Offseason 2025 Thread 

Post#1150 » by fatlever » Mon Jul 14, 2025 10:29 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
JustBuzzin wrote:We thought new ownership would help, but so far it's been more of the same. We stocking up on picks hopefully it comes with a major move down the line.

The ownership and FO experience has been night and day different. Much more proactive, and building assets instead of giving them away.

I don't understand looking at all the **** we've done in the last 18 months and coming away with "this is more of the same" as your take.

I'm not saying people have to be happy with their approach or even agree with the general philosophy of how they want to build, but it's definitely not more of the same. We've never built like this.


yes exactly this...
I'm not saying you have to agree with the approach they're taking. And it's very possible they may be taking the wrong approach. Time will tell. But this is clearly being done differently than what we've seen over the previous 15 years.
It's very obvious the new ownership came in and immediately gave a mandate to the old front office to trade Gordon and Terry and one of PJ or Miles. That was the first set of fingerprints on this new ownership. since then jeff has been trading nonstop trying to collect assets.

Now again you can argue that all of these were the wrong moves but it's a very different approach than what we got under Mitch and ownership previously. Don't forget this lazy front office kept French franc on the roster for six months when he was injured and couldn't play. For absolutely no purpose whatsoever. We constantly recycled in young guys last year for a look when the previous front office would have brought in Ish Smith and called it a day.

I'm not gonna sit here and pretend I understand exactly what all went down with the Mark situation and why they felt they needed to move on from him. I think it was pretty clear after the first trade failed though that his time here was done. In hindsight would they go back and not try to trade him to the Lakers? I have no idea.

I think we'll be able to second guess these draft picks for the next five years. And clearly the draft pick last year was a head scratcher. It's possible Jeff is not good at drafting. But I do like the trades that he's made and I do understand the need for asset collection for roster and franchise that was completely bare of assets despite having a poor record.

I don't really understand the decision to movefrom okogie. He was on the short list of guys that I would have brought back Without hesitation. I don't really agree with adding 4 rookies into the mix all of which are on standard contracts. I thought adding three to this team was too many so 4 rookies clearly indicates that they're taking it slow and not trying to win this year.

Now I get what everyone's saying when they say it's more of the same because we are still in some form of tank or not going all in. i've said for the past few months that they need to make a decision about melo.

For right or wrong they have clearly made a decision to try to improve the culture around the team. The hypocrisy of that is they still have Miles Bridges on the roster. There was an interview with Kon where he came out and said the quiet part out loud and reiterated that the new front office told him that they wanted to come in and help improve the culture I thought that was weird that he said that in an interview because it's clearly aimed at two players- melo/miles.

The roster is a complete mess at the moment.

But all of this feels very different in how they got here compared to the old front office which was in denial.

And from every thing I've read and heard is the front office is finally investing actual real money into putting infrastructure in place to have a competent franchise moving forward. There was none of that in place previously.

So just because I say Is different and the old ownership was a train wreck doesn't necessarily mean I think we have made all of the right moves in the past year. I think there's a difference.
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Re: Offseason 2025 Thread 

Post#1151 » by MasterIchiro » Mon Jul 14, 2025 10:30 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:Which good player has the new group added to the team?

Sexton.

2 years.

Sexton.

I think Mann, Micic (who became Nurk, who became Sexton), Grant Williams, and like 6 1sts all came under new ownership.


Peterson was employed with BKN.

I'm saying HE inherited all of it.

Including Martin and Micic expirings used to acquire Nurkic with a 1st.

Then Jeff dumped Nurkic and replaced him with Plumlee to do the one thing that would enrage the fanbase most, downgrade center after all that suffering.

Cardinal sin.
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Re: Offseason 2025 Thread 

Post#1152 » by JustBuzzin » Mon Jul 14, 2025 10:31 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
JustBuzzin wrote:We thought new ownership would help, but so far it's been more of the same. We stocking up on picks hopefully it comes with a major move down the line.

The ownership and FO experience has been night and day different. Much more proactive, and building assets instead of giving them away.

I don't understand looking at all the **** we've done in the last 18 months and coming away with "this is more of the same" as your take.

I'm not saying people have to be happy with their approach or even agree with the general philosophy of how they want to build, but it's definitely not more of the same. We've never built like this.

The success has been the same. Making changes without actually making change on the court means nothing imo.

I'm not writing them off just judging them on what I have seen so far. Their vision seems to be more long-term so I'm willing to give them more time. But as of right now I'm not sold. When we start having on court success maybe I will buy into the vision.
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Re: Offseason 2025 Thread 

Post#1153 » by JustBuzzin » Mon Jul 14, 2025 10:35 pm

MasterIchiro wrote:Which good player has the new group added to the team?

Sexton.

2 years.

Sexton.

I mean they got 1st for Rozier/PJ/Mark but yeah that's not helping us right now. We lost 3 solid players for picks.

What's hurt them imo are the draft picks. It's still early on Kon, but the Salaun pick really hurt us. He's a project we are trying to groom into a rotation piece at best.
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Re: Offseason 2025 Thread 

Post#1154 » by MasterIchiro » Mon Jul 14, 2025 10:48 pm

JustBuzzin wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:Which good player has the new group added to the team?

Sexton.

2 years.

Sexton.

I mean they got 1st for Rozier/PJ/Mark but yeah that's not helping us right now. We lost 3 solid players for picks.

What's hurt them imo are the draft picks. It's still early on Kon, but the Salaun pick really hurt us. He's a project we are trying to groom into a rotation piece at best.


I'm supposed to believe that while a GM with 4 championships was still under employment, the real credit goes to outside consultants hired by hedge fund managers? They were the ones who confiscated the phone from the basketball exec of 30 years, by direction of the greedy owners who had a better idea how to negotiate with Presti?

It's just god damn far-fetched I can't talk about it anymore or you know who will swoop in and blue font me or ban me again.

I'm done talking about the new owners. The new GM. They **** up center. All 4 outside picks are rooted in the last regime.

Mark - 4 champ GM - 1st from Suns + McNeeley
Heat 1st - 4 champ GM
Mavs 1st - 4 champ GM
Nurkic 1st - Micic & Martin expirings
LaMelo - Kupchak again
Miller - Kupchak again
Mann - Kupchak
Miles - Kupchak

Here's the messy part of the roster

Green - Peterson + new owners
Salaün - Peterson + new owners
Kon - Peterson + new owners
Plumlee - Peterson + new owners
Connaughton - Peterson + new owners
Kalkbrenner - Peterson + new owners
Dinwiddie - Peterson + new owners
Plumlee - Peterson + new owners

NSJ - that's on Mitch.
Sexton - best move made by the new regime.

Where is the trainwreck? Clear to me.

I'm done. Not getting involved in the back-and-forth with these 2 mods.



It's absurd and insulting Fats is trying to build an argument against this.
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Re: Offseason 2025 Thread 

Post#1155 » by KembaWalker » Mon Jul 14, 2025 11:00 pm

It is very Hornets energy to go for the blatant tank and draft pick accumulation thing basically as soon as flat odds and 5 picks for role players era hits. Always last ones to the party. Maybe if they get 2 or 3 more picks we can put a competitive offer in for Tyler Herro or something
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Re: Offseason 2025 Thread 

Post#1156 » by LofJ » Mon Jul 14, 2025 11:21 pm

KembaWalker wrote:It is very Hornets energy to go for the blatant tank and draft pick accumulation thing basically as soon as flat odds and 5 picks for role players era hits. Always last ones to the party. Maybe if they get 2 or 3 more picks we can put a competitive offer in for Tyler Herro or something


It should be insulting to the intelligence of people who pay to attend or watch games. They clearly don't care about winning so why spend any money supporting them? Tons of competitive teams with substantially less players picked high in the lottery have been built. The claim that the team needs one more good player to compete is a lie designed to give fans false hope.
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Re: Offseason 2025 Thread 

Post#1157 » by MasterIchiro » Mon Jul 14, 2025 11:52 pm

LofJ wrote:
KembaWalker wrote:It is very Hornets energy to go for the blatant tank and draft pick accumulation thing basically as soon as flat odds and 5 picks for role players era hits. Always last ones to the party. Maybe if they get 2 or 3 more picks we can put a competitive offer in for Tyler Herro or something


It should be insulting to the intelligence of people who pay to attend or watch games. They clearly don't care about winning so why spend any money supporting them? Tons of competitive teams with substantially less players picked high in the lottery have been built. The claim that the team needs one more good player to compete is a lie designed to give fans false hope.


It is a blatant lie. That surplus draft capital can be invested in better players for LaMelo & Miller right now.
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Re: Offseason 2025 Thread 

Post#1158 » by Chapelchilla » Tue Jul 15, 2025 12:09 am

We are not nearly as bad or as far away from being good some of y'all seem to think. Oh my.
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Re: Offseason 2025 Thread 

Post#1159 » by Walt Cronkite » Tue Jul 15, 2025 12:12 am

Feels silly to write this when we are at game three of the summer league and the season doesn't start for another 99 days, but I really don't think the center issue is as big as many are making it out to be. Zone defense and perimeter focused offense have made traditional centers less valuable and the Hornets most talented players are perimeter oriented, so for this roster it's even less so.

I know Mark Williams had his supporters and he seems like a nice kid and everything, but his archetype needs to get touches. To pay him what he will command to just be a pick and roll man/glass cleaner would be incredibly wasteful. You know who can do that? Moussa Diabate and Mason Plumlee types. You know what they don't need to justify their contracts? Touches. Time will tell how large of an error this move is, but I mean, they didn't see him as a long term fit and moved on from him and got value for him (twice).

Offensively, this team as currently constructed will be running and gunning. They'll get bullied on the other end, but that happened with Mark anyway, so I'm not sure it's a huge net loss. Think about the bigs the 7 Seconds or Less Suns went to war with and remember how poorly things went when they added Shaq. Diop or someone suggested a fake trade that got John Collins to Charlotte before he was traded elsewhere and that was a type of move that made a lot of sense, but I think that those of you hoping for a Vucevic type big are going to continue to be disappointed.

If your intelligence is insulted by watching or attending games, then don't. Hyperbolic reactionary responses are the norm for the board, but we don't have nearly enough information at this point to definitively state that the team is tanking or swindling the lowly fans of the lowly Hornets from their money yet. They are undefeated so far in SL btw (for as little as that is worth) for those of you already crushed by the falling sky.
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Re: Offseason 2025 Thread 

Post#1160 » by Chapelchilla » Tue Jul 15, 2025 12:21 am

Walt Cronkite wrote:Feels silly to write this when we are at game three of the summer league and the season doesn't start for another 99 days, but I really don't think the center issue is as big as many are making it out to be. Zone defense and perimeter focused offense have made traditional centers less valuable and the Hornets most talented players are perimeter oriented, so for this roster it's even less so.

I know Mark Williams had his supporters and he seems like a nice kid and everything, but his archetype needs to get touches. To pay him what he will command to just be a pick and roll man/glass cleaner would be incredibly wasteful. You know who can do that? Moussa Diabate and Mason Plumlee types. You know what they don't need to justify their contracts? Touches. Time will tell how large of an error this move is, but I mean, they didn't see him as a long term fit and moved on from him and got value for him (twice).

Offensively, this team as currently constructed will be running and gunning. They'll get bullied on the other end, but that happened with Mark anyway, so I'm not sure it's a huge net loss. Think about the bigs the 7 Seconds or Less Suns went to war with and remember how poorly things went when they added Shaq. Diop or someone suggested a fake trade that got John Collins to Charlotte before he was traded elsewhere and that was a type of move that made a lot of sense, but I think that those of you hoping for a Vucevic type big are going to continue to be disappointed.

If your intelligence is insulted by watching or attending games, then don't. Hyperbolic reactionary responses are the norm for the board, but we don't have nearly enough information at this point to definitively state that the team is tanking or swindling the lowly fans of the lowly Hornets from their money yet. They are undefeated so far in SL btw (for as little as that is worth) for those of you already crushed by the falling sky.


Well put

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