RealGM 2025 Greatest Peaks Project #2 — 1974 Kareem-Abdul Jabbar

[One_and_Done]

Kinda wish I saved the honourable mentions now. The next few posts are gonna be very repetitive lol.

Peak 2; #1, 1974 Kareem
At the time the best scorer of all time whilst also being the best defensive player in the league. Very rarely does a player have an argument to be (and not on a position relative basis) the best offensive and defensive player in the league. In the purest sense of the term is likely the best two-way player in NBA history at his peak. Very resilient in the playoffs at his best also whilst facing excellent competition and whilst carrying a huge load.

Peak 2; #2, 2004 Kevin Garnett
In my opinion the 2nd most talented player in NBA history at his peak after Lebron. Could do everything at an elite level. Was so good offensively that if he was neutral on defence he’d still deserve an MVP, + he was a DPOY caliber player. Nowhere near as good as Kareem as a scorer but infinitely better ball handler and passer whilst being comparable and likely slightly better on defence (remember this is 04 not 08-13 KG defence i’m talking about so don’t get yer panties in a twist). Insane impact, insane carry job in the 04 season also. Not as high as a win total as other seasons but big boi impact stats.
Reason he's below Kareem is because I don't think he elevated his game as much as Kareem did. KG was just as good in the post season as the regular season, but Kareem upped his game imo.

Peak 2; #3, 1991 Michael Jordan
Also proto-Lebronesque in that MJ was the first perimeter player (to my knowledge anyway) to be in the GOAT conversation on offence whilst being DPOY level (though only relative to his position) on defence. GOAT level scorer, rises in post season, very resilient.

Lower than Kareem and KG because they seem infinitely more portable and less dependant on a system to maximise their talents than MJ. I think Kareem and KG are just as good at elevating their team in multiple different hypotheticals and team settings. I'm not confident that the "why the **** would I pass to teammates lol" hyper-antisocial would be however. I guess you could say that'd only be relevant for a career discussion not a peak but this is my comment so suck ya mudda

That and I think you kinda have to be a big man or at least capable of doing big man ish to be in the GOAT conversation anyway tbh.
The center of gravity and shorter stature of guards allows them to be much better ball handlers and on ball playmakers yes, + the 3 point shot decreases the physicality induced efficiency gap in bigs and smalls BUT bigs can still get very close to doing everything guards can do offensively whilst the opposite isn't even close to being true.

Come on. If KG is ahead of Jordan's, Duncan surely is too.

[Ollie Coraline]

Bill Russell 62

The most decorated player ever. Won the most. No one talks about him the best but when you think about it. He’s the only player to win as player and coach. The only player to win at least 3 titles with different second best teammates. It was argued well the last minutes matter and Russell always wins those too. And what seals it is he was able to win when he didn’t have great help. Several times. It’s a team sport. But if you’re always winning no matter what. Maybe that says alot about you.

I choose 62 because that year he had his best scoring in the playoffs and they fall 22 points of net rating when he isn’t there. They lost all the games too but I have been informed net is better to use.

Kareem 71

31/3/16.

6 time MVP Kareem Abdul Jabbar the year he leads one of the best teams ever. Great defender. Great attacker. Many say he was the best at both and I have good reason to think that is more accurate than when the same has been said of Lebron or Jordan. They also had highest net rating ever before OKC this year. Great team great player.

Hakeem 94

27/12/4.

DPOY, MVP, and breaks through to win it finally. Hakeem was top 20 in every statistical category on a weak team and found a way to win. He had shooters and key role players but it was an incredible effort. Not easy to pick him over great players like MJ and Wilt but the project master’s talk on adversity admittedly sways. Hakeem had all the difficulty throughout. But he found a way.

[Elpolo_14]

Shorter explanations than the last thread since I’ve been absurdly busy, but after last thread, and reading through this one, Kareem makes my list, and goes over MJ

1) Lebron ‘09: I genuinely don’t believe we’ll ever see a player of this caliber again. Pretty much the complete package at the time.

2) Kareem ‘74: Liking these Kareem choices I'm seeing. Main thing is it seems he would have been DPOY in his second year which is crazy when you're also a scoring GOAT; and in ‘74, he's a game away from a big carry job championship like Duncan or Hakeem while putting crazy scoring and top 2 DPOY type play. Lots of reasonable doubt with MJ on both ends so I think I'll swap to Kareem because of the ‘88 steals scandal I learned about.

3) MJ ‘88: Steal scandal or not, it’s still one of the most impressive individual seasons of all time. Debated switching this to ‘92 because of the steal thing, but ultimately I don’t think it takes away from the fact the MJ was still a defensive beast, while being the focal offensive point of the Bulls.

4) Curry ‘16: Just feel like I still need to include him in the list, still the heaviest gravity a player has commanded ever I feel, maybe early Shaq had more gravity in the paint, but Curry had to be doubled at the halfway line…

But why are you focusing on 88 for Jordan? Everyone else who's voted for him has selected 1991.

He might focus more on the raw stat and the load MJ was carrying in his earlier career compare to when Pippen become an elite player to help him ( both end of the floor ) and when the Triangle system was implement to utilize MJ scoring ability to impact offense to the Max.

MJ was scoring on a ALL TIME clip that season because he was to sole Offensive Engine in the team and his aggressiveness on defense was also really noticable ( even tho was less calculate and worse decision making ). He might Favor 1988 cause of the DPOY too ( even tho I don't think he deserves it ).

[Elpolo_14]

I forgot to ask. Do we include ABA too or just NBA production + accomplishment??

ABA counts, as do the 1947-49 NBL and BAA years (mostly looking at Mikan there). I will try to remember to make that clear in future threads.

That good to know cause some of the player I have in contention for this peak list were peaking in ABA while having worse NBA year. Someone like DR.J - Artis Gilmore would definitely fall off a cliff if the ABA wasn't take into consideration.

Interesting that it go to 1940s NBL but personally I don't think I'm going to include any of them in my mention cause the era seem a bit too far and game are totally different which I don't even have enough footage to analyze on.

[Elpolo_14]

Shorter explanations than the last thread since I’ve been absurdly busy, but after last thread, and reading through this one, Kareem makes my list, and goes over MJ

1) Lebron ‘09: I genuinely don’t believe we’ll ever see a player of this caliber again. Pretty much the complete package at the time.

2) Kareem ‘74: Liking these Kareem choices I'm seeing. Main thing is it seems he would have been DPOY in his second year which is crazy when you're also a scoring GOAT; and in ‘74, he's a game away from a big carry job championship like Duncan or Hakeem while putting crazy scoring and top 2 DPOY type play. Lots of reasonable doubt with MJ on both ends so I think I'll swap to Kareem because of the ‘88 steals scandal I learned about.

3) MJ ‘88: Steal scandal or not, it’s still one of the most impressive individual seasons of all time. Debated switching this to ‘92 because of the steal thing, but ultimately I don’t think it takes away from the fact the MJ was still a defensive beast, while being the focal offensive point of the Bulls.

4) Curry ‘16: Just feel like I still need to include him in the list, still the heaviest gravity a player has commanded ever I feel, maybe early Shaq had more gravity in the paint, but Curry had to be doubled at the halfway line…

You don't have to include lebron in your Vote because he already been selected as winner in the first thread.

Good to see some Stephen curry Love. With how impactful he was to the offensive end of the game with his best Volume scoring year all time and being the biggest Prerimeter gravity to ever live to help his overall playmaking.

I wanted to know if Curry is this high , Do you consider Magic Johnson around the same tier or close to curry in you peak estimation ?

[Doctor MJ]

I forgot to ask. Do we include ABA too or just NBA production + accomplishment??

ABA counts, as do the 1947-49 NBL and BAA years (mostly looking at Mikan there). I will try to remember to make that clear in future threads.

That good to know cause some of the player I have in contention for this peak list were peaking in ABA while having worse NBA year. Someone like DR.J - Artis Gilmore would definitely fall off a cliff if the ABA wasn't take into consideration.

Interesting that it go to 1940s NBL but personally I don't think I'm going to include any of them in my mention cause the era seem a bit too far and game are totally different which I don't even have enough footage to analyze on.

So glad you brought up Julius, Artis & Connie Hawkins!

Wait, you didn't mention Connie Hawkins? It was just me imagining Connie Hawkins?

Well, nevermind, maybe there's no good reason to talk about Connie Hawkins.

Spoiler:

CONNIE HAWKINS

[Ol Roy]

(Copy+pasting Jordan and Jabbar from round 1)

1. Michael Jordan: 1991 (1990, 1992)

Michael Jordan in his twenties was a very consistent player and we're splitting hairs to differentiate between his regular seasons. Being the best offensive engine in the game in addition to playing bulldog perimeter defense is a tall task, but he did it. I do believe he became more refined in the early 90s, however. Jordan gets the top spot, and this year receives top billing in particular, because he capped it off with a championship. The Bulls finished 61-21 in the regular season and went 15-2 in the playoffs against the Knicks, 76ers, Pistons, and Lakers.

2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: 1972 (1974, 1977)

As with the other Jordan and James, there are a menu of Kareem (or Alcindor) seasons to choose from. In 1972, the big man averaged nearly 35 PPG, was an excellent defender, and posted a record 25.4 Win Shares. The Bucks finished 63-19 in the regular season, beat the Warriors 4-1 in the semis (the great Nate Thurmond did limit Kareem's efficiency, but he responded by upping his assists), and then lost to the West/Wilt Lakers in the WCF. However, Kareem was the best player in that series, and thanks to an injury Oscar was essentially a no-show. As with James, not reaching the Finals is a primary factor in keeping this season out of the top spot.

3. David Robinson: 1994 (1995, 1996)

Migya's recent thread put this on my mind. I wasn't planning to introduce Robinson this early, but there has been a wide range of nominations so far, and he's as debatable as many of the others, so what the heck. His three-year peak was just tremendous on both sides of the ball in the regular season. Box score, impact stats, you name it: dominant. These were carry-jobs and 1994 was the best of them. He led the league in points, led his team in assists, and was arguably the best defender in the world. The downside? A first-round playoff exit. I'll give Robinson a couple demerits for that, but I also think he took poorly constructed teams as far as they could be taken and the inevitable...happened.

[Elpolo_14]

ABA counts, as do the 1947-49 NBL and BAA years (mostly looking at Mikan there). I will try to remember to make that clear in future threads.

That good to know cause some of the player I have in contention for this peak list were peaking in ABA while having worse NBA year. Someone like DR.J - Artis Gilmore would definitely fall off a cliff if the ABA wasn't take into consideration.

Interesting that it go to 1940s NBL but personally I don't think I'm going to include any of them in my mention cause the era seem a bit too far and game are totally different which I don't even have enough footage to analyze on.

So glad you brought up Julius, Artis & Connie Hawkins!

Wait, you didn't mention Connie Hawkins? It was just me imagining Connie Hawkins?

Well, nevermind, maybe there's no good reason to talk about Connie Hawkins.

Spoiler:

CONNIE HAWKINS

I should have mentioned him too NGL

He was one of the best ( if not the best) in his first year in the league. Great rebounder and ELITE High efficiency per volume Scorer.

I haven't decided where to place him yet. So where would you personally place him in this project.? ( Just for estimation )

[Doctor MJ]

That good to know cause some of the player I have in contention for this peak list were peaking in ABA while having worse NBA year. Someone like DR.J - Artis Gilmore would definitely fall off a cliff if the ABA wasn't take into consideration.

Interesting that it go to 1940s NBL but personally I don't think I'm going to include any of them in my mention cause the era seem a bit too far and game are totally different which I don't even have enough footage to analyze on.

So glad you brought up Julius, Artis & Connie Hawkins!

Wait, you didn't mention Connie Hawkins? It was just me imagining Connie Hawkins?

Well, nevermind, maybe there's no good reason to talk about Connie Hawkins.

Spoiler:

CONNIE HAWKINS

I should have mentioned him too NGL

He was one of the best ( if not the best) in his first year in the league. Great rebounder and ELITE High efficiency per volume Scorer.

I haven't decided where to place him yet. So where would you personally place him in this project.? ( Just for estimation )

Oh, no idea. I don't generally keep a deep Peaks list.

Something I tend to say is that I consider Hawk the most talented player born between 1938 (Oscar/West) & 1947 (Kareem), and I can say that while his career got messed with horribly by circumstances, I consider his '67-68 ABA season to absolutely jaw-dropping. But it's tough, because while I have complete confidence in Hawk being an NBA-superstar-level player, the weak competition of the early ABA makes it a challenge to put him over peaks that involve beating the best of the best.

[Elpolo_14]

(Copy+pasting Jordan and Jabbar from round 1)
3. David Robinson: 1994 (1995, 1996)

Migya's recent thread put this on my mind. I wasn't planning to introduce Robinson this early, but there has been a wide range of nominations so far, and he's as debatable as many of the others, so what the heck. His three-year peak was just tremendous on both sides of the ball in the regular season. Box score, impact stats, you name it: dominant. These were carry-jobs and 1994 was the best of them. He led the league in points, led his team in assists, and was arguably the best defender in the world. The downside? A first-round playoff exit. I'll give Robinson a couple demerits for that, but I also think he took poorly constructed teams as far as they could be taken and the inevitable...happened.

Fascinating to see D.rob include in the podium so early in this project. For me why he doesn't come close to the top echelon thread yet might fall to his lack of translation in the playoff and his underperforming there ( in his peak ). The difference in RS impact and Playoff are insane.

Most of his playoff series Dropping are noticable on how his offensive ability he able to engine ( with his effective high volume high efficiency Scoring )in the Regular Season get scheme against and shutdown quite easily when the Defense is loading on him. His face up game with the first step burst to the basket which was effective against regular center get exposed by Karl Malone ( or any versatile Center or BigWing )who was able to keep up with him on the elbow area and force D.rob to make a tough shot from back to the basket game instead or he needed to Play PnP always from the versatile defender. His playmaking lack a bit of defense manipulation and a bit too slow processing with the defense collapse. ( He still have some great delivery when the defense is not loading on him tho cannot deny that)

With his defense being the only traits that able to translate to playoff setting . I don't know why Duncan or Hakeem are not selected before D.rob. both of this player are able to maintain their defensive prowess against elite team/personnel while offer offensive engine/production for their team especially in there peak.

I'm not saying he a fraud whom peak isn't impressive. I just don't think he belongs so high.

[Ol Roy]

(Copy+pasting Jordan and Jabbar from round 1)
3. David Robinson: 1994 (1995, 1996)

Migya's recent thread put this on my mind. I wasn't planning to introduce Robinson this early, but there has been a wide range of nominations so far, and he's as debatable as many of the others, so what the heck. His three-year peak was just tremendous on both sides of the ball in the regular season. Box score, impact stats, you name it: dominant. These were carry-jobs and 1994 was the best of them. He led the league in points, led his team in assists, and was arguably the best defender in the world. The downside? A first-round playoff exit. I'll give Robinson a couple demerits for that, but I also think he took poorly constructed teams as far as they could be taken and the inevitable...happened.

Fascinating to see D.rob include in the podium so early in this project. For me why he doesn't come close to the top echelon thread yet might fall to his lack of translation in the playoff and his underperforming there ( in his peak ). The difference in RS impact and Playoff are insane.

Most of his playoff series Dropping are noticable on how his offensive ability he able to engine ( with his effective high volume high efficiency Scoring )in the Regular Season get scheme against and shutdown quite easily when the Defense is loading on him. His face up game with the first step burst to the basket which was effective against regular center get exposed by Karl Malone ( or any versatile Center or BigWing )who was able to keep up with him on the elbow area and force D.rob to make a tough shot from back to the basket game instead or he needed to Play PnP always from the versatile defender. His playmaking lack a bit of defense manipulation and a bit too slow processing with the defense collapse. ( He still have some great delivery when the defense is not loading on him tho cannot deny that)

With his defense being the only traits that able to translate to playoff setting . I don't know why Duncan or Hakeem are not selected before D.rob. both of this player are able to maintain their defensive prowess against elite team/personnel while offer offensive engine/production for their team especially in there peak.

I'm not saying he a fraud whom peak isn't impressive. I just don't think he belongs so high.

I get it. I don't have super strong opinions about the rankings here. I would probably equate Robinson's peak with Garnett's. Putting Duncan and Hakeem ahead is reasonable. I think I have seen some Giannis mentions too. To me, Robinson is a better player than Giannis, who has had the benefit of existing in the best possible era for his skills/style. Swap their eras and I think that would be made plain.

But I'm trying to separate out the individual impact and give the Admiral his props. That involves a bit of counterfactual thinking. Looking at some of his contemporaries, I have to think playing with Stockton, or Penny then Kobe, or the Rudy T. 3PT offense would have changed up some of these playoff outcomes. Robinson was absolutely targeted in the playoffs, and while an all-time low-post arsenal would be certainly helped, IMO he didn't have the teammates or system to effectuate a release valve.

[f4p]

You know what they say, once is random, twice is a coincidence, three times is evidence. Six times, well that's just a bit...discordant.

[f4p]

Hey Paulluxx9000, metta-tonne, Reardonwd, LeoClark, emn_101, Chip, and Ollie Coraline. I noticed you guys all don't have that many posts ever on Real GM. Nice to get some new blood in here with some fresh ideas. Didn't notice you guys in the first peaks threads, but it'd be interesting to hear more about your votes in this thread.

Since I didn't see him on any of your ballots, I think you all voted LeBron #1. So I guess the ideas weren't that fresh . But hey, LeBron won by a lot and he's really good, even I struggled with my first vote, so gotta hand it to The King.

I see you've all got Kareem really high. Really showing that depth and breadth of knowledge of NBA history we all like around here. And I see 5 of you agreed on '74 Kareem. The rest of this thread's had a tough time figuring out which Kareem season, but you guys kind of honed in on that one. I mean not all 7 of you, that would probably be weird, right? But hey, you bucked the trend outside of this board, you all had Kareem over Jordan. metta, you even stood firm and picked Kareem even though you didn't really think he was 3rd best. Reardon, I think you were real impressed by the recent Kareem arguments. I think someone made one back on the first page of this thread, maybe that was the one? You even were impressed by that new tracking data people have been doing on Jordan's assists in the '91 finals. And Paul, you could have picked Jordan 3rd but mentioned you picked Kareem partly because he was even a better scorer than Jordan. Of course, I guess Duncan was your 4th pick so I guess there wasn't even much need to mention Jordan.

Also, quite a few '16 Steph fans up in here. I didn't realize the '16 Steph/'74 Kareem venn diagram was practically just one circle, but hey, ignoring that disastrous playoffs due to injuries, it was a pretty damn great season. I can see why 4 of you picked it even though I don't think anyone else in the thread did. Thinking outside the box. Although I guess you kind of ended up inside a different box, haha. I kid.

Lot of Bill Russell. We all love Russ don't we. Even some Hakeem and even a Giannis mention. Bold. I think we've got some posters who really champion all 3 of those guys really hardcore so I think you'll find it enjoyable here.

And of course, I'd be remiss to not mention your evergreen thirst for knowledge. With all of the NBA history mentioned in these posts, very recent things have still been able to sway your votes. A lot of them were even things or arguments you just learned about or were persuaded by about the most famous basketball player ever, who has been dissected and trisected and discussed ad nauseum (seriously, I might throw up) for 3 straight decades. metta wasn't too sure about the assists in the '91 finals from some of that recent tracking data we've come to enjoy. Reardon was also a little concerned about those same assists and if they weren't up to snuff. emn likes hakeem's 2-10 WOWY data and is big on the new creations tracking also. Chip, I think you just found out about the steals scandal and, in a tough decision, had to move Kareem up because of this new information. And Ollie, you found that Hakeem adversity argument particularly persuasive and, in another tough decision, had to leave MJ off your ballot. Firm, but fair. It's good you were all swayed by different things and not the same thing, otherwise I wouldn't be able to tell you apart, lol.

Anyway, it's good to have new guys (and gals?), on the board. I look forward to seeing what you've learned in the next thread.

[BusywithBball]

Hey Paulluxx9000, metta-tonne, Reardonwd, LeoClark, emn_101, Chip, and Ollie Coraline. I noticed you guys all don't have that many posts ever on Real GM. Nice to get some new blood in here with some fresh ideas. Didn't notice you guys in the first peaks threads, but it'd be interesting to hear more about your votes in this thread.

Since I didn't see him on any of your ballots, I think you all voted LeBron #1. So I guess the ideas weren't that fresh . But hey, LeBron won by a lot and he's really good, even I struggled with my first vote, so gotta hand it to The King.

I see you've all got Kareem really high. Really showing that depth and breadth of knowledge of NBA history we all like around here. And I see 5 of you agreed on '74 Kareem. The rest of this thread's had a tough time figuring out which Kareem season, but you guys kind of honed in on that one. I mean not all 7 of you, that would probably be weird, right? But hey, you bucked the trend outside of this board, you all had Kareem over Jordan. metta, you even stood firm and picked Kareem even though you didn't really think he was 3rd best. Reardon, I think you were real impressed by the recent Kareem arguments. I think someone made one back on the first page of this thread, maybe that was the one? You even were impressed by that new tracking data people have been doing on Jordan's assists in the '91 finals. And Paul, you could have picked Jordan 3rd but mentioned you picked Kareem partly because he was even a better scorer than Jordan. Of course, I guess Duncan was your 4th pick so I guess there wasn't even much need to mention Jordan.

Also, quite a few '16 Steph fans up in here. I didn't realize the '16 Steph/'74 Kareem venn diagram was practically just one circle, but hey, ignoring that disastrous playoffs due to injuries, it was a pretty damn great season. I can see why 4 of you picked it even though I don't think anyone else in the thread did. Thinking outside the box. Although I guess you kind of ended up inside a different box, haha. I kid.

Lot of Bill Russell. We all love Russ don't we. Even some Hakeem and even a Giannis mention. Bold. I think we've got some posters who really champion all 3 of those guys really hardcore so I think you'll find it enjoyable here.

And of course, I'd be remiss to not mention your evergreen thirst for knowledge. With all of the NBA history mentioned in these posts, very recent things have still been able to sway your votes. A lot of them were even things or arguments you just learned about or were persuaded by about the most famous basketball player ever, who has been dissected and trisected and discussed ad nauseum (seriously, I might throw up) for 3 straight decades. metta wasn't too sure about the assists in the '91 finals from some of that recent tracking data we've come to enjoy. Reardon was also a little concerned about those same assists and if they weren't up to snuff. emn likes hakeem's 2-10 WOWY data and is big on the new creations tracking also. Chip, I think you just found out about the steals scandal and, in a tough decision, had to move Kareem up because of this new information. And Ollie, you found that Hakeem adversity argument particularly persuasive and, in another tough decision, had to leave MJ off your ballot. Firm, but fair. It's good you were all swayed by different things and not the same thing, otherwise I wouldn't be able to tell you apart, lol.

Anyway, it's good to have new guys (and gals?), on the board. I look forward to seeing what you've learned in the next thread.

I think you have learned some people discuss outside of Realgm thread. I was not aware that is not allowed? You do not help my opinion of Jordan when you call me cheat because I don’t agree with you.

[Elpolo_14]

I thought there would be more Vote/Argumentation for WILT Chamberlain ( 64 / 67 ) to be in the podium more frequently in this second thread or the next thread.
Personally he a player I was debating among the top 3-6 myself.

With his all time defensive ability generate by his Physicality+Athlétisme relative to his Pier in the 60s to be a dominant interior defender ( might care too much about foul to be fully committed there ) can be Impactful against mobile wing - Strong Center. Also a great transition game both end of the floor due to his Speed + motion on the recovery.
Was anchor all time playoff defense in 67 too when he wasn't focus on scoring to the point he doesn't have enough energy to put Elite effort on Defense.

He becomes an elite offensive player in these year Which I don't think he was in his early career. The ascension as a passer playmaker in 67 really benefits his teammates/team just by him being more willing as a passer and paying more attention to the court. Help develope aspect in offense that make him all time great. And he still was a positive scorer in the rim / post / paint

His development both end of the floor in the mid late 60s while still maintaining GOAT tier glass cleaner and Possession extender on the Offensive Rebounding really make me wonder If I personally put him too low in my peak list

[f4p]

Hey Paulluxx9000, metta-tonne, Reardonwd, LeoClark, emn_101, Chip, and Ollie Coraline. I noticed you guys all don't have that many posts ever on Real GM. Nice to get some new blood in here with some fresh ideas. Didn't notice you guys in the first peaks threads, but it'd be interesting to hear more about your votes in this thread.

Since I didn't see him on any of your ballots, I think you all voted LeBron #1. So I guess the ideas weren't that fresh . But hey, LeBron won by a lot and he's really good, even I struggled with my first vote, so gotta hand it to The King.

I see you've all got Kareem really high. Really showing that depth and breadth of knowledge of NBA history we all like around here. And I see 5 of you agreed on '74 Kareem. The rest of this thread's had a tough time figuring out which Kareem season, but you guys kind of honed in on that one. I mean not all 7 of you, that would probably be weird, right? But hey, you bucked the trend outside of this board, you all had Kareem over Jordan. metta, you even stood firm and picked Kareem even though you didn't really think he was 3rd best. Reardon, I think you were real impressed by the recent Kareem arguments. I think someone made one back on the first page of this thread, maybe that was the one? You even were impressed by that new tracking data people have been doing on Jordan's assists in the '91 finals. And Paul, you could have picked Jordan 3rd but mentioned you picked Kareem partly because he was even a better scorer than Jordan. Of course, I guess Duncan was your 4th pick so I guess there wasn't even much need to mention Jordan.

Also, quite a few '16 Steph fans up in here. I didn't realize the '16 Steph/'74 Kareem venn diagram was practically just one circle, but hey, ignoring that disastrous playoffs due to injuries, it was a pretty damn great season. I can see why 4 of you picked it even though I don't think anyone else in the thread did. Thinking outside the box. Although I guess you kind of ended up inside a different box, haha. I kid.

Lot of Bill Russell. We all love Russ don't we. Even some Hakeem and even a Giannis mention. Bold. I think we've got some posters who really champion all 3 of those guys really hardcore so I think you'll find it enjoyable here.

And of course, I'd be remiss to not mention your evergreen thirst for knowledge. With all of the NBA history mentioned in these posts, very recent things have still been able to sway your votes. A lot of them were even things or arguments you just learned about or were persuaded by about the most famous basketball player ever, who has been dissected and trisected and discussed ad nauseum (seriously, I might throw up) for 3 straight decades. metta wasn't too sure about the assists in the '91 finals from some of that recent tracking data we've come to enjoy. Reardon was also a little concerned about those same assists and if they weren't up to snuff. emn likes hakeem's 2-10 WOWY data and is big on the new creations tracking also. Chip, I think you just found out about the steals scandal and, in a tough decision, had to move Kareem up because of this new information. And Ollie, you found that Hakeem adversity argument particularly persuasive and, in another tough decision, had to leave MJ off your ballot. Firm, but fair. It's good you were all swayed by different things and not the same thing, otherwise I wouldn't be able to tell you apart, lol.

Anyway, it's good to have new guys (and gals?), on the board. I look forward to seeing what you've learned in the next thread.

I think you have learned some people discuss outside of Realgm thread. I was not aware that is not allowed? You do not help my opinion of Jordan when you call me cheat because I don’t agree with you.

Hmm, but I didn't mention you though, did I? And I don't know who said anything about cheating.

[Chip]

Shorter explanations than the last thread since I’ve been absurdly busy, but after last thread, and reading through this one, Kareem makes my list, and goes over MJ

1) Lebron ‘09: I genuinely don’t believe we’ll ever see a player of this caliber again. Pretty much the complete package at the time.

2) Kareem ‘74: Liking these Kareem choices I'm seeing. Main thing is it seems he would have been DPOY in his second year which is crazy when you're also a scoring GOAT; and in ‘74, he's a game away from a big carry job championship like Duncan or Hakeem while putting crazy scoring and top 2 DPOY type play. Lots of reasonable doubt with MJ on both ends so I think I'll swap to Kareem because of the ‘88 steals scandal I learned about.

3) MJ ‘88: Steal scandal or not, it’s still one of the most impressive individual seasons of all time. Debated switching this to ‘92 because of the steal thing, but ultimately I don’t think it takes away from the fact the MJ was still a defensive beast, while being the focal offensive point of the Bulls.

4) Curry ‘16: Just feel like I still need to include him in the list, still the heaviest gravity a player has commanded ever I feel, maybe early Shaq had more gravity in the paint, but Curry had to be doubled at the halfway line…

You don't have to include lebron in your Vote because he already been selected as winner in the first thread.

Good to see some Stephen curry Love. With how impactful he was to the offensive end of the game with his best Volume scoring year all time and being the biggest Prerimeter gravity to ever live to help his overall playmaking.

I wanted to know if Curry is this high , Do you consider Magic Johnson around the same tier or close to curry in you peak estimation ?

I thought that may be the case, which is why I went down to #4, so go me lol

If Curry and his ‘16 season is a 10/10 among point guards, Magic’s ‘87 season is a 9.5/10. Almost as impressive regular season (accounting for pace and era), but ended in a chip, which evens it out. The Curry choice is a bit subjective just due to changing the game of basketball with the three. Magic’s ‘87 season didn’t change the game (to my knowledge, educate me otherwise) like Curry did.

2nd best PG, but I’d still probably include a Tim Duncan, Shaq, and even look at a Jokic season ahead of Magic still, for a list in the Peaks project overall.

I think Jokic is severely overlooked in these threads.

[trelos6]

A little something I've compiled.



Jokic PS PP75 is wrong. Should be 29. I’ll edit later.

[Elpolo_14]

A little something I've compiled.

Great Information. Thx for your time to put in these data so it easier to for people in this thread to read.

Wait Jokic playoff only 20 PPG per 75 ? By Databallr Jokic is 28.6 PPG per 75 in his championship run.

Wouldn't Lebron PS rTS be +5.6 rTS ( Bron was 58.5TS% vs PS average 52.9 TS% )

MJ PS rTS be +5.3 rTS ( MJ was 60.0 TS% vs PS average 54.7 TS% )

Or the rTS PS are comparing to the regular season TS average instead? ( If that the case would rTS% Adj. To defense faced Be more compelling to use to see which defense they were facing? )

[Elpolo_14]

Shorter explanations than the last thread since I’ve been absurdly busy, but after last thread, and reading through this one, Kareem makes my list, and goes over MJ

1) Lebron ‘09: I genuinely don’t believe we’ll ever see a player of this caliber again. Pretty much the complete package at the time.

2) Kareem ‘74: Liking these Kareem choices I'm seeing. Main thing is it seems he would have been DPOY in his second year which is crazy when you're also a scoring GOAT; and in ‘74, he's a game away from a big carry job championship like Duncan or Hakeem while putting crazy scoring and top 2 DPOY type play. Lots of reasonable doubt with MJ on both ends so I think I'll swap to Kareem because of the ‘88 steals scandal I learned about.

3) MJ ‘88: Steal scandal or not, it’s still one of the most impressive individual seasons of all time. Debated switching this to ‘92 because of the steal thing, but ultimately I don’t think it takes away from the fact the MJ was still a defensive beast, while being the focal offensive point of the Bulls.

4) Curry ‘16: Just feel like I still need to include him in the list, still the heaviest gravity a player has commanded ever I feel, maybe early Shaq had more gravity in the paint, but Curry had to be doubled at the halfway line…

You don't have to include lebron in your Vote because he already been selected as winner in the first thread.

Good to see some Stephen curry Love. With how impactful he was to the offensive end of the game with his best Volume scoring year all time and being the biggest Prerimeter gravity to ever live to help his overall playmaking.

I wanted to know if Curry is this high , Do you consider Magic Johnson around the same tier or close to curry in you peak estimation ?

I thought that may be the case, which is why I went down to #4, so go me lol

If Curry and his ‘16 season is a 10/10 among point guards, Magic’s ‘87 season is a 9.5/10. Almost as impressive regular season (accounting for pace and era), but ended in a chip, which evens it out. The Curry choice is a bit subjective just due to changing the game of basketball with the three. Magic’s ‘87 season didn’t change the game (to my knowledge, educate me otherwise) like Curry did.

2nd best PG, but I’d still probably include a Tim Duncan, Shaq, and even look at a Jokic season ahead of Magic still, for a list in the Peaks project overall.

I think Jokic is severely overlooked in these threads.

Reasonable POV. I can understand your point on how impactful Curry is both on/off the court.

I wouldn't say Jokic is overlook here, more like properly Evaluate. His offensive ability really make him high ( even to the top 3 podium is some people criteria ) with how he able to Floor rise a Denver team no so great to an elite offensive team ( he the heart and soul of that system ) his playoff offense engine seem so falloff regularly but that can be excusable to an extent .
But I think his biggest weakness being an AVERAGE defense as a Center really hold him back in general. He doesn't have the benefits of being a guard like Curry which the defensive role aren't really important and Easier for own team to hide or make rotation to help gap the void there ( Which is much harder to hide a center on defense ).

He would definitely fall around 7-12 spot in this project ( Personally I have him around 8-10 range ). I don't think an offensive Demon like him will be lower than this.