Giannis Thread - 13th Season with the Bucks

[jakecronus8]

Karl Malone > Giannis

Sorry

You should be. This is embarrassing.

[AussieBuck]

Any rating, whether by posters or media, is meaningless if the individual didn't watch the players they are rating.

You don't have to have seen the players in person or even been in their generation, but you should have watched their past games extensively if you are going to have the chutzpah to rate them.

Just looking at championships or all star games is not enough.

Big O and Jerry West have to be in the top 5 or 6.

If you want to rate players who played since 1980 or 1990, that's fair.

Hold up ..... Are you saying Oscar and Jerry are 2 of the Top 6 players of all time?

I reckon you can make a case that West is the best or near enough best guard ever. Top 6 can be done. Oscar I dunno.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

Any rating, whether by posters or media, is meaningless if the individual didn't watch the players they are rating.

You don't have to have seen the players in person or even been in their generation, but you should have watched their past games extensively if you are going to have the chutzpah to rate them.

Just looking at championships or all star games is not enough.

Big O and Jerry West have to be in the top 5 or 6.

If you want to rate players who played since 1980 or 1990, that's fair.

Hold up ..... Are you saying Oscar and Jerry are 2 of the Top 6 players of all time?

I reckon you can make a case that West is the best or near enough best guard ever. Top 6 can be done. Oscar I dunno.

Yeah, it becomes a math problem. I assume if you value Oscar and Jerry, I assume you also value Kareem, Russell, Wilt who were better in the same era? MJ, LBJ getting squeezed?

[BigO]

Any rating, whether by posters or media, is meaningless if the individual didn't watch the players they are rating.

You don't have to have seen the players in person or even been in their generation, but you should have watched their past games extensively if you are going to have the chutzpah to rate them.

Just looking at championships or all star games is not enough.

Big O and Jerry West have to be in the top 5 or 6.

If you want to rate players who played since 1980 or 1990, that's fair.

Hold up ..... Are you saying Oscar and Jerry are 2 of the Top 6 players of all time?

Absolutely. Of all the players I have seen.

[paulpressey25]

These all-time lists are always great conversation fodder. And naturally recency bias comes into play.

You can only go up against the guys and teams of your era. The question is how much you excelled over your peers during said era.

In the case of Giannis, the guys ahead of him all played out their full careers (save for Jokic), so I'm assuming he'll climb the ranks in the years ahead.

[BigO]

Hold up ..... Are you saying Oscar and Jerry are 2 of the Top 6 players of all time?

I reckon you can make a case that West is the best or near enough best guard ever. Top 6 can be done. Oscar I dunno.

Yeah, it becomes a math problem. I assume if you value Oscar and Jerry, I assume you also value Kareem, Russell, Wilt who were better in the same era? MJ, LBJ getting squeezed?

Definitely tough to make a top 5. I value Kareem and Russell more than Wilt. It's hard to keep Lebron and Jordan off any list.

I love two way players who can shoot and for some reason I am biased against centers. Here's my 7:

Bird
Magic
Jordan
Lebron
Bill Walton- the healthy one who unfortunately was only healthy for a few years.
West
Robertson

If I have to cut down to 5, then I take off Walton and Bird.

Big O never had the teammates that the others had. I watched him in college and even a little in high school.

[Licensed to Il]

While I'm too young to have watched Jerry West, and I don't know how to get watchable copies of his games, I have heard enough former players and oldheads talk about him in reverential tones that I find it plausible he's a top ten all time NBA player. He certainly demonstrated a great basketball mind as an executive. The guys I've heard from said he was a fearless, icy killer as a player.

[Ron Swanson]

Giannis' career arc so far is basically "what if KG actually won in Minnesota?" The more years we see him drop these casual 30/11/6 stat lines while somehow getting snubbed from All-Defense teams (despite getting DPOTY votes every year), the more I'm becoming convinced that he might be the most under-appreciated/dis-respected superstar ever. PP's explanation is probably the right one though. His career isn't close to done yet so they feel the need to handicap him for the time being in these all-time lists. I'm just saying it's a stupid rationale if that's the case. It's about "who was the better/more dominant player?", not "who was a good/great player for the longest?"

[emunney]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/25223594-brs-top-100-nba-players-all-time-ranked (Giannis - 24)
https://hoopshype.com/lists/79-greatest-nba-players-ever-hoopshype-list/ (Giannis - 22; 2024 - 22, 2023 - 22, 2022 - 22, 2021 - 24)

As a homer, seems kind of low. Based on hardware, I think Giannis needs to be above Wade, Elgin, Dr. J (NBA only), and will pass Dirk, KG, West with longevity (He will be Top 40 scoring, Top 50 Rebounding after next year).

I think he is Top 20 right now, realistically ending 18-20 (assuming Jokic or Wemby passes him); but could pass Malone/Malone/Oscar with another ring for 15th AT as a ceiling.

Dirk is way too high.

[Licensed to Il]

Giannis' career arc so far is basically "what if KG actually won in Minnesota?" The more years we see him drop these casual 30/11/6 stat lines while somehow getting snubbed from All-Defense teams (despite getting DPOTY votes every year), the more I'm becoming convinced that he might be the most under-appreciated/dis-respected superstar ever. PP's explanation is probably the right one though. His career isn't close to done yet so they feel the need to handicap him for the time being in these all-time lists. I'm just saying it's a stupid rationale if that's the case. It's about "who was the better/more dominant player?", not "who was a good/great player for the longest?"

Giannis’ career ark is “what if KG could dribble like a guard and break down any defense?”

KG is one of my all time faves, people don’t realize what a great mid range shooter he was. But no big has ever been able to dribble, penetrate, and attack the rim like Giannis. They both were equally dominant on defense. Do you want them to switch on PnR? How do you exploit a big that can guard 1-5? How do you score at the rim? How do you post up?

As good as KG was, Giannis simply has more to beat you with.

[ReasonablySober]

Giannis' career arc so far is basically "what if KG actually won in Minnesota?" The more years we see him drop these casual 30/11/6 stat lines while somehow getting snubbed from All-Defense teams (despite getting DPOTY votes every year), the more I'm becoming convinced that he might be the most under-appreciated/dis-respected superstar ever. PP's explanation is probably the right one though. His career isn't close to done yet so they feel the need to handicap him for the time being in these all-time lists. I'm just saying it's a stupid rationale if that's the case. It's about "who was the better/more dominant player?", not "who was a good/great player for the longest?"

Giannis’ career ark is “what if KG could dribble like a guard and break down any defense?”

KG is one of my all time faves, people don’t realize what a great mid range shooter he was. But no big has ever been able to dribble, penetrate, and attack the rim like Giannis. They both were equally dominant on defense. Do you want them to switch on PnR? How do you exploit a big that can guard 1-5? How do you score at the rim? How do you post up?

As good as KG was, Giannis simply has more to beat you with.

Giannis's arc is closer to "What if Russell Westrook but 6'11?"

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

Giannis' career arc so far is basically "what if KG actually won in Minnesota?" The more years we see him drop these casual 30/11/6 stat lines while somehow getting snubbed from All-Defense teams (despite getting DPOTY votes every year), the more I'm becoming convinced that he might be the most under-appreciated/dis-respected superstar ever. PP's explanation is probably the right one though. His career isn't close to done yet so they feel the need to handicap him for the time being in these all-time lists. I'm just saying it's a stupid rationale if that's the case. It's about "who was the better/more dominant player?", not "who was a good/great player for the longest?"

There's a balance. Obviously no one has bill Walton in there top 25 despite him being a monster the one year he was healthy. But if a guy has an extra ten years with more hardware and stats, sure that should be the tie breaker. You even alluded to it in another post saying his he has been MVP-level for 6 straight years so you do value longevity to some extent. I think most of the time he is in the appropriate 16-23 tier. You could make chases for all those guys and nitpick teammates, competition, luck, era etc.

I do think his style of play (same with Shaq) hurts him because people prefer the offensive style of KD, Dirk, Wade, etc.

[soxperry]

Giannis' career arc so far is basically "what if KG actually won in Minnesota?" The more years we see him drop these casual 30/11/6 stat lines while somehow getting snubbed from All-Defense teams (despite getting DPOTY votes every year), the more I'm becoming convinced that he might be the most under-appreciated/dis-respected superstar ever. PP's explanation is probably the right one though. His career isn't close to done yet so they feel the need to handicap him for the time being in these all-time lists. I'm just saying it's a stupid rationale if that's the case. It's about "who was the better/more dominant player?", not "who was a good/great player for the longest?"

Giannis’ career ark is “what if KG could dribble like a guard and break down any defense?”

KG is one of my all time faves, people don’t realize what a great mid range shooter he was. But no big has ever been able to dribble, penetrate, and attack the rim like Giannis. They both were equally dominant on defense. Do you want them to switch on PnR? How do you exploit a big that can guard 1-5? How do you score at the rim? How do you post up?

As good as KG was, Giannis simply has more to beat you with.

I wonder which animals Giannis would have picked for his ark. You know he's not doing two of every animal he's going to have his favorites. There's going to be like 30 hippos

[Licensed to Il]

Giannis' career arc so far is basically "what if KG actually won in Minnesota?" The more years we see him drop these casual 30/11/6 stat lines while somehow getting snubbed from All-Defense teams (despite getting DPOTY votes every year), the more I'm becoming convinced that he might be the most under-appreciated/dis-respected superstar ever. PP's explanation is probably the right one though. His career isn't close to done yet so they feel the need to handicap him for the time being in these all-time lists. I'm just saying it's a stupid rationale if that's the case. It's about "who was the better/more dominant player?", not "who was a good/great player for the longest?"

Giannis’ career ark is “what if KG could dribble like a guard and break down any defense?”

KG is one of my all time faves, people don’t realize what a great mid range shooter he was. But no big has ever been able to dribble, penetrate, and attack the rim like Giannis. They both were equally dominant on defense. Do you want them to switch on PnR? How do you exploit a big that can guard 1-5? How do you score at the rim? How do you post up?

As good as KG was, Giannis simply has more to beat you with.

I wonder which animals Giannis would have picked for his ark. You know he's not doing two of every animal he's going to have his favorites. There's going to be like 30 hippos

He would pick Thanasis

[CharityStripe34]

Giannis' career arc so far is basically "what if KG actually won in Minnesota?" The more years we see him drop these casual 30/11/6 stat lines while somehow getting snubbed from All-Defense teams (despite getting DPOTY votes every year), the more I'm becoming convinced that he might be the most under-appreciated/dis-respected superstar ever. PP's explanation is probably the right one though. His career isn't close to done yet so they feel the need to handicap him for the time being in these all-time lists. I'm just saying it's a stupid rationale if that's the case. It's about "who was the better/more dominant player?", not "who was a good/great player for the longest?"

Careful, KG is a sacred cow at RGM. Especially in the Players Comp section. Some guys have him Top 10 (or even top 5!) all-time. And I love KG I think he was awesome in his heyday and completely changed the culture in Boston when he was gift-wrapped for Ainge by McHale.

But yea, Freak getting snubbed from All-Defense nods is bizarre. I'll freely admit that in 2024 & 2025 he has been focusing more of his game on improving offensively and has trimmed his effort on defense by about 25% or so. But I'll take Giannis giving 65-70% on defense over the majority of the league.

[humanrefutation]

The lack of respect for Giannis effectively boils down to him playing in Milwaukee and three consecutive first round exits. And I think it's the former waaaaaay more than the latter, but if he was winning multiple rings or at least making deep playoff runs, I imagine he would get less disrespect than he does currently.

[Ron Swanson]

Giannis' career arc so far is basically "what if KG actually won in Minnesota?" The more years we see him drop these casual 30/11/6 stat lines while somehow getting snubbed from All-Defense teams (despite getting DPOTY votes every year), the more I'm becoming convinced that he might be the most under-appreciated/dis-respected superstar ever. PP's explanation is probably the right one though. His career isn't close to done yet so they feel the need to handicap him for the time being in these all-time lists. I'm just saying it's a stupid rationale if that's the case. It's about "who was the better/more dominant player?", not "who was a good/great player for the longest?"

Careful, KG is a sacred cow at RGM. Especially in the Players Comp section. Some guys have him Top 10 (or even top 5!) all-time. And I love KG I think he was awesome in his heyday and completely changed the culture in Boston when he was gift-wrapped for Ainge by McHale.

But yea, Freak getting snubbed from All-Defense nods is bizarre. I'll freely admit that in 2024 & 2025 he has been focusing more of his game on improving offensively and has trimmed his effort on defense by about 25% or so. But I'll take Giannis giving 65-70% on defense over the majority of the league.

Oh, you don't have to remind me. I stopped posting there even though I get invited to participate in the peaks project every year, and one of the reasons is precisely because KG is treated by the spreadsheet contrarian crowd as having an actual GOAT case. It's wild.

[CharityStripe34]

Giannis' career arc so far is basically "what if KG actually won in Minnesota?" The more years we see him drop these casual 30/11/6 stat lines while somehow getting snubbed from All-Defense teams (despite getting DPOTY votes every year), the more I'm becoming convinced that he might be the most under-appreciated/dis-respected superstar ever. PP's explanation is probably the right one though. His career isn't close to done yet so they feel the need to handicap him for the time being in these all-time lists. I'm just saying it's a stupid rationale if that's the case. It's about "who was the better/more dominant player?", not "who was a good/great player for the longest?"

Careful, KG is a sacred cow at RGM. Especially in the Players Comp section. Some guys have him Top 10 (or even top 5!) all-time. And I love KG I think he was awesome in his heyday and completely changed the culture in Boston when he was gift-wrapped for Ainge by McHale.

But yea, Freak getting snubbed from All-Defense nods is bizarre. I'll freely admit that in 2024 & 2025 he has been focusing more of his game on improving offensively and has trimmed his effort on defense by about 25% or so. But I'll take Giannis giving 65-70% on defense over the majority of the league.

Oh, you don't have to remind me. I stopped posting there even though I get invited to participate in the peaks project every year, and one of the reasons is precisely because KG is treated by the spreadsheet contrarian crowd as having an actual GOAT case. It's wild.

I did participate one year (I think in 2022) and the mustache-twirling spreadsheet geek crowd scoffed at the mere suggestion Giannis (or anyone else) is better than KG. I think I even read people making a case for Reggie as Top 20 or something because of some abstract "gravity" argument.

[ReasonablySober]

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