Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas

[Ron Swanson]

And I'll also posit, it's not like Barrett hasn't actually been productive out there. Even the advanced numbers aren't bad anymore (79th percentile offensive EPM, 158th out of 523 in total EPM). He really upped his catch and shoot volume (36.4% on 4.7 attempts per game), and has been a 40% guy from the corners each of the last 2-years. There's a bunch of underrated improvement there when you dig deeper into the numbers.

[tedbrogen]

And I'll also posit, it's not like Barrett hasn't actually been productive out there. Even the advanced numbers aren't bad anymore (79th percentile offensive EPM, 158th out of 523 in total EPM). He really upped his catch and shoot volume (36.4% on 4.7 attempts per game), and has been a 40% guy from the corners each of the last 2-years. There's a bunch of underrated improvement there when you dig deeper into the numbers.

What’s league average on catch and shoot threes? What’s league average on corner threes?

[pifhluk23]

Although I'd still trade for him, another issue with RJ is last 4 seasons games played:

58
32
26
58

I don't think he's worth even a protected 1st swap.

[Ron Swanson]

And I'll also posit, it's not like Barrett hasn't actually been productive out there. Even the advanced numbers aren't bad anymore (79th percentile offensive EPM, 158th out of 523 in total EPM). He really upped his catch and shoot volume (36.4% on 4.7 attempts per game), and has been a 40% guy from the corners each of the last 2-years. There's a bunch of underrated improvement there when you dig deeper into the numbers.

What’s league average on catch and shoot threes? What’s league average on corner threes?

37% and 38%

[Badgerlander]

Derrick White also looked like nothing more than a JAG rotation guy and poor 3PT shooter at Barrett's age. I'm certainly not the biggest fan of either Barrett or Kuminga, but the reason we're talking about both and why these guys would be attractive options is because of their age and talent/pedigree. Do we wanna find the next Lauri Markkanen, Joe Johnson, or even just the next Bobby? Ok, then these are the dudes you probably need to take a chance on.

Derrick White was still on his rookie deal at age 25 (Barretts age) making less than $2mil and he played good defense and hustled and made smart plays. Trading for him is low risk, at worst you get Pat C and you have restricted rights for his next contract.
The way you win trades is finding guys that will outperform their contract. The best way to do that is trade for guys on their rookie deals. Barrett has already been paid and paid on the level of if he is your second best guy then he is slightly underpaid and you win but if he turns out to be the number three guy he is slightly overpaid and you live with it. He needs the ball in his hands and has had an opportunity with two teams and has shown he is not a #2 or a #3. He isn’t a good defender or a hustle guy that makes smart plays and he isn’t a shooter so if you take the ball out of his hands and try and make him a role player he will likely struggle. He is 25, most players make developmental leaps until they reach 25 and then fine tune those skills towards their peak at age 27-28.
Kuminga is at the age where Lauri was signed on a value contract but Kuminga wants a Barrett level deal. Lauri was an elite shooter, Kuminga’s skill is drawing fouls. Not a hustle guy that makes smart plays or a defender. He is a bad fit with Giannis. Joe Johnson had shown his skills with the ball in his hands but like Khris was he a #2 guy or a number #3 guy. Bobby we grabbed off the scrap heap, there was no rusk there.
The best way to dump Kuz is to split his deal into two guys or an expiring guy. If you trade him for a higher salary guy then you are hoping a disgruntled star wants off a team and wants to force his way to milwaukee lulz, thats not happening.

[Badgerlander]

[Ron Swanson]

I don't obsess about contracts as much as a lot of you guys, and I guess I don't even see why RJ's 2-years, $56 million remaining hamstrings us going forward anyways? The way you win trades is finding any young players who you think can outperform their current level of play in a different environment and/or have some sort of development leap/skill refinement left in the cupboard. Also worth noting that White had already inked a 4-year, $70 million extension and Boston ponied up real assets for him (Josh Richardson, a 2022 1st, and an unprotected 2028 pick swap). That was far from a "low risk move" for Boston, but they get credit for having the foresight to see him becoming much better.

[tedbrogen]

And I'll also posit, it's not like Barrett hasn't actually been productive out there. Even the advanced numbers aren't bad anymore (79th percentile offensive EPM, 158th out of 523 in total EPM). He really upped his catch and shoot volume (36.4% on 4.7 attempts per game), and has been a 40% guy from the corners each of the last 2-years. There's a bunch of underrated improvement there when you dig deeper into the numbers.

What’s league average on catch and shoot threes? What’s league average on corner threes?

37% and 38%

So he’s below league average on threes overall and catch and shoot threes, a bad free throw shooter, but is above league average on corner threes. So if you play him with GA you have to park him in the corner and take away corner threes from truly elite shooters (AJG and GTJ). And you get to pay him $30M per year. Sounds less than ideal and downright idiotic if you have to include any draft capital.

[WiscoKing13]

Hollinger on Smith

Tyler Smith, Bucks: The 33rd pick in the 2024 draft was perhaps the most disappointing second-year player in Vegas, failing to record a single assist in five games, shooting 31.3 percent from the floor and recording a meager 7.0 PER in five games. Already looking at another year buried at the end of the Bucks’ bench, he watched as summer teammate Chris Livingston may have passed him on the depth chart.

[tedbrogen]

Since my stance is to simply feed the SF minutes to AJG and GTJ, could you post this same for them?

[paulpressey25]

Although I'd still trade for him, another issue with RJ is last 4 seasons games played:

58
32
26
58

I don't think he's worth even a protected 1st swap.

This was a real eye opener.

[WiscoKing13]

I still maintain that walking into the 2024 draft we knew that the odds were that was Brooks last season with the Bucks. We had one last chance to try and draft some kind of legit prospect to try and protect ourselves(granted only top of the second rounder)

The fact that Filipkowski was taken a pick before Smith and we passed on Oso and Bona for a kid that plays the same position as Giannis and Bobby(who was likely to be back) is crazy.

[emunney]

Although I'd still trade for him, another issue with RJ is last 4 seasons games played:

58
32
26
58

I don't think he's worth even a protected 1st swap.

This was a real eye opener.

It's also very much not true.

[paulpressey25]

It's also very much not true.

Ah, I see what he did. So 58, 58, and 58 games.

[German Athens]

Although I'd still trade for him, another issue with RJ is last 4 seasons games played:

58
32
26
58

I don't think he's worth even a protected 1st swap.

This was a real eye opener.

It's also very much not true.

70
73
58
58

[emunney]

To clarify, that 1st 58 is 23-24, and the 32 and 26 are the splits with the Knicks and Raptors. Lots of tanky DNPs in March on both of those years. 143 games in the previous two seasons.

[PG Graveyard]

Although I'd still trade for him, another issue with RJ is last 4 seasons games played:

58
32
26
58

I don't think he's worth even a protected 1st swap.

This was a real eye opener.

It's also very much not true.

Yeah he’s been 58, 58, 73, 70, 72, 56.

I’m also guessing the last two years he was sat out some games for some tanking activity by the Raptors

[Badgerlander]

Since my stance is to simply feed the SF minutes to AJG and GTJ, could you post this same for them?

[Ron Swanson]

What’s league average on catch and shoot threes? What’s league average on corner threes?

37% and 38%

So he’s below league average on threes overall and catch and shoot threes, a bad free throw shooter, but is above league average on corner threes. So if you play him with GA you have to park him in the corner and take away corner threes from truly elite shooters (AJG and GTJ). And you get to pay him $30M per year. Sounds less than ideal and downright idiotic if you have to include any draft capital.

If we just ignore all the nuance that was just laid out, then sure. He's a legit wing-sized ball-handler that averaged 21/6/5 on a bad team, but the shooting splits were meant to show that he's improved and has some utility as an off-ball guy (only 25-30 players got up more catch and shoot 3's per game than him). And I haven't seen a single person say they'd include draft capital for him, so I don't know why we have to keep tossing that strawman in there.

[emunney]

This was a real eye opener.

It's also very much not true.

Yeah he’s been 58, 58, 73, 70, 72, 56.

I’m also guessing the last two years he was sat out some games for some tanking activity by the Raptors

It's definitely more than bad luck that nobody on the Raptors played more than 65 games last year.