Trajan Langdon

[tmorgan]

I’d argue Caris is the THJ replacement if anything. Can’t believe how many people him are thinking of him as a backup PG…he is a ball stopper.

I mean, he’s averaged north of 5 assists a game in two different seasons, often coming off the bench, so I don’t think that’s very fair.

[Fennis Dembo]

Nothing to add that hasn't already been said. Maybe that Chinese guy was right.

[chrbal]

I’d argue Caris is the THJ replacement if anything. Can’t believe how many people him are thinking of him as a backup PG…he is a ball stopper.

Not really. As a secondary ball handler Caris has 4 assists per game over 500 games played. Tim has like 2 assists per game.

It’s not a huge difference, but I think it’s significant enough. I feel like they’re going to try and get more out of Sasser or move on this season from him for an upgrade. On a related note, I’m not sure how serious the Cam Thomas rumors are

[Rip32]

I'll be ecstatic if TL can pull off a Cam Thomas trade without giving up core assets. Cam can get you a bucket and he's proven. I love Cam's work ethic and his makeup. He's a smart player. Some nba players are dumb. He'll fit right in with the team. In the event some team offers Ivey some crazy $$$ you can let him go and slide Thomas right in his spot.

Watch on YouTube

[Invictus88]

I'll be ecstatic if TL can pull off a Cam Thomas trade without giving up core assets. Cam can get you a bucket and he's proven. I love Cam's work ethic and his makeup. He's a smart player. Some nba players are dumb. He'll fit right in with the team. In the event some team offers Ivey some crazy $$$ you can let him go and slide Thomas right in his spot.

Watch on YouTube

- He's a wholly inefficient scorer in terms of shooting (<.500 efg for his career)
- Despite a 33% usage (i.e running an offense) which is crazy he had only 3.8 assists. So he's a black hole.
- He's terrible on the defensive side of the ball
- He believes he should be paid a big contract which is the reason why even the lowly Nets are not biting.
- He's on the lower end height-wise (6'3")so if he's not a great 1 then he's an undersized 2.

Are you really missing Josh Smith and Ben Gordon that much that you want to acquire what is basically a hybrid of those 2?

Joe, don't you have enough on your hands screwing up the Pelicans franchise to be posting on RealGM boards?

[tmorgan]

The words “chucker” and “black hole” and “ball stopper” get thrown around a lot in these forums, often incorrectly.

Cam Thomas is a chucking black hole ball stopper. Why anyone wants this guy in Detroit is completely beyond my comprehension.

Imagine you gave Marcus Sasser an inch or two of height, took away some athleticism, took away any defensive focus at all, and gave him Beasley’s irrational confidence and ability to make tough shots and an extreme green light on a bad team. That’s Thomas. He’s a volume scorer but not an efficient one.

He’s not going to help us win. He’s not an attractive trade piece unless his salary is very low, low enough that Brooklyn would just keep him. There’s just nothing appealing here.

[A_dub06]

I'll be ecstatic if TL can pull off a Cam Thomas trade without giving up core assets. Cam can get you a bucket and he's proven. I love Cam's work ethic and his makeup. He's a smart player. Some nba players are dumb. He'll fit right in with the team. In the event some team offers Ivey some crazy $$$ you can let him go and slide Thomas right in his spot.

Watch on YouTube

- He's a wholly inefficient scorer in terms of shooting (<.500 efg for his career)
- Despite a 33% usage (i.e running an offense) which is crazy he had only 3.8 assists. So he's a black hole.
- He's terrible on the defensive side of the ball
- He believes he should be paid a big contract which is the reason why even the lowly Nets are not biting.
- He's on the lower end height-wise (6'3")so if he's not a great 1 then he's an undersized 2.

Are you really missing Josh Smith and Ben Gordon that much that you want to acquire what is basically a hybrid of those 2?

Joe, don't you have enough on your hands screwing up the Pelicans franchise to be posting on RealGM boards?

My support of a Thomas S&T to the Pistons is this, he’s never really played in an actual cohesive system with any form of identity or culture. Who was he supposed to be passing to for him to get assists? The Nets sucked and needed him to try and score every possession. In a theoretical trade to us his shot attempts and usage would need to come down, but under Bickerstaff and playing on our team I fully believe he would buy in and try defensively, which he has more than enough athleticism to be able to be at least decent. Playing in a system as opposed to hero ball would make his efficiency increase a fair deal, we currently have enough spacing, gravity in the form of cade and a good/willing passer in cade which could set him up for many open looks.

He’s got an ego for sure, but he’s clearly got all the tools to take his game to another level and I think we have the keys to make that happen. I could be wrong but pretty sure a S&T deal requires a minimum of 3 years which would give us bird rights, and in that scenario the worst that happens is that he stays just a 6th man microwave scorer (hopefully with better %’s) which we use for depth and when the 3 years are up we either trade or just don’t resign, and on the flip side if he does improve like I believe he would we resign. He has far more talent than BG ever did imo

[Invictus88]

I'll be ecstatic if TL can pull off a Cam Thomas trade without giving up core assets. Cam can get you a bucket and he's proven. I love Cam's work ethic and his makeup. He's a smart player. Some nba players are dumb. He'll fit right in with the team. In the event some team offers Ivey some crazy $$$ you can let him go and slide Thomas right in his spot.

Watch on YouTube

- He's a wholly inefficient scorer in terms of shooting (<.500 efg for his career)
- Despite a 33% usage (i.e running an offense) which is crazy he had only 3.8 assists. So he's a black hole.
- He's terrible on the defensive side of the ball
- He believes he should be paid a big contract which is the reason why even the lowly Nets are not biting.
- He's on the lower end height-wise (6'3")so if he's not a great 1 then he's an undersized 2.

Are you really missing Josh Smith and Ben Gordon that much that you want to acquire what is basically a hybrid of those 2?

Joe, don't you have enough on your hands screwing up the Pelicans franchise to be posting on RealGM boards?

My support of a Thomas S&T to the Pistons is this, he’s never really played in an actual cohesive system with any form of identity or culture. Who was he supposed to be passing to for him to get assists? The Nets sucked and needed him to try and score every possession. In a theoretical trade to us his shot attempts and usage would need to come down, but under Bickerstaff and playing on our team I fully believe he would buy in and try defensively, which he has more than enough athleticism to be able to be at least decent. Playing in a system as opposed to hero ball would make his efficiency increase a fair deal, we currently have enough spacing, gravity in the form of cade and a good/willing passer in cade which could set him up for many open looks.

He’s got an ego for sure, but he’s clearly got all the tools to take his game to another level and I think we have the keys to make that happen. I could be wrong but pretty sure a S&T deal requires a minimum of 3 years which would give us bird rights, and in that scenario the worst that happens is that he stays just a 6th man microwave scorer (hopefully with better %’s) which we use for depth and when the 3 years are up we either trade or just don’t resign, and on the flip side if he does improve like I believe he would we resign. He has far more talent than BG ever did imo

The reason I don't believe any of the above comes from comments that Thomas has made himself regarding being labelled as a ball hog.
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/cam-thomas-jabs-nets-gm-lashes-out-at-consensus-ball-hog-opinion-in-social-media-barrage/

"This is most likely the same consensus teams who can't guard me and send double teams from jump ball. Why are we double teaming a guy who's 'not that good' make it make sense please," Thomas wrote on "X".

The answer to this question is that teams have found that to be a reliable and winning strategy because you end up taking low percentage attempts instead of properly passing the ball away (further evidenced by the high usage).

The guys is simply not aware of things like this. We've seen this type of thing from guys before on some of our most awful teams. There is literally no reason to add that type of mentality to the group we have; where basically everyone is willing to share the ball to get the best shot.

There is no way that he wants to settle for being a 6th man either. He believes that he should be an alpha and be paid as one (30 million annually?). We simply do not need nor should want that on a team where we have been successful with the hierarchy that we have.

[Crymson]

Not to play killjoy, but this is all sort of a moot point given that Thomas has no reason whatsoever to join the Pistons on an MLE-level salary and was never linked to the Pistons in any manner beyond arbitrary betting odds from an unregulated offshore sportsbook.

The genesis of all this wasn't even so much as an obscure rumor from one of the typical unreliable sources. It was just silly math from Bovada.

[tmorgan]

There is no “bad team” excuse for Cam, either. You can excuse a bad OnCourt +/- (which he definitely has) because of being on a bad team, but his On/Off has also been terrible until last year, when he finally posted a +0.4 in 25 games before getting hurt.

His career OnCourt per 100 possessions is -5.4. His career On/Off is -5.9. For those of you that aren’t stats-inclined, that means, for the either mostly dysfunctional or just plain bad Nets, for the last four years, they’ve been -5.4 points per 100 possessions with him ON the court, and +0.5 points per 100 possessions with him OFF the court (when he’s active).

That’s a large sample. Cam Thomas basketball, aka CamBall is losing basketball. You think you can bring him here with his obliviousness and big ego and change him? You want to take that bet? I do not. He sucks.

[tmorgan]

To bastardize a quote from Field of Dreams:

“if you double them, they won’t pass”

A nice little note for Cam Thomas, Benedict Mathurin, Cam Whitmore, Jonathan Kuminga, and certainly some others as well.

[Rip32]

The words “chucker” and “black hole” and “ball stopper” get thrown around a lot in these forums, often incorrectly.

Cam Thomas is a chucking black hole ball stopper. Why anyone wants this guy in Detroit is completely beyond my comprehension.

Imagine you gave Marcus Sasser an inch or two of height, took away some athleticism, took away any defensive focus at all, and gave him Beasley’s irrational confidence and ability to make tough shots and an extreme green light on a bad team. That’s Thomas. He’s a volume scorer but not an efficient one.

He’s not going to help us win. He’s not an attractive trade piece unless his salary is very low, low enough that Brooklyn would just keep him. There’s just nothing appealing here.

Hell if Ivey switched roles with Thomas in Brooklyn you probably use the same adjectives. Brooklyn is a lousy team. The fact that TL is looking into and most are predicting us the be the landing spot is good news. Cade and Ivey (but who knows if he'll be the same player before injury) are the only true bucket go getters on the team.

[tmorgan]

The words “chucker” and “black hole” and “ball stopper” get thrown around a lot in these forums, often incorrectly.

Cam Thomas is a chucking black hole ball stopper. Why anyone wants this guy in Detroit is completely beyond my comprehension.

Imagine you gave Marcus Sasser an inch or two of height, took away some athleticism, took away any defensive focus at all, and gave him Beasley’s irrational confidence and ability to make tough shots and an extreme green light on a bad team. That’s Thomas. He’s a volume scorer but not an efficient one.

He’s not going to help us win. He’s not an attractive trade piece unless his salary is very low, low enough that Brooklyn would just keep him. There’s just nothing appealing here.

Hell if Ivey switched roles with Thomas in Brooklyn you probably use the same adjectives. Brooklyn is a lousy team. The fact that TL is looking into and most are predicting us the be the landing spot is good news. Cade and Ivey (but who knows if he'll be the same player before injury) are the only true bucket go getters on the team.

No. Absolutely not. And you know I’m not a big Ivey fan.

Ivey had to run a lot of point as a rookie because Cade missed the year. Despite zero pro experience and many holes in his game, playing for a sketchy X’s and O’s coach and a very weak roster, he managed 5.2 assists per game on his 25.4% usage. In his two seasons since, playing mostly SG, he’s still averaged more assists despite significantly less usage than Cam.

Cam’s very best year as a passer was last year — he’s made progress from the worst tunnel vision in the league to only “one of the worst”. And in that short sample of 25 games, he averaged 3.8 assists despite 32.6% usage. In his previous season, 2.9 assists on 30.5% usage. Dude just doesn’t pass, and as he himself says, he gets doubled all the time.

He plays losing basketball.

[Snakebites]

There is no credible sourcing that suggests we're considering adding Cam Thomas.

All we have is betting activity from one site, and even that isn't giving us particularly strong odds. It's the sort of odds on things you see when nobody really knows what is going on.

We will not be adding Cam Thomas.

As for what I think of him- he's a decent scorer. He's not particularly inefficient as a scorer either, a feat on that team. But he's also not much of a passer, isn't effective off ball, and doesn't play defense.

He's a bad fit here and a bad fit on most rosters. He's a good isolation scorer but not good enough to carry a good offense. And players like that just aren't going for much in today's league.

Again- he's the type of guy I hope Ivey doesn't become.

[MrBigShot]

There's a very simple reason Cam Thomas isn't getting much interest. His efficiency last year was actually pretty decent, and he makes some of the toughest shots of any player in the league.

But...he needs the ball in his hands. And he's simply not good enough to warrant putting the ball in his hands. If you have the ball in your hands you need to be a very good scorer + elite passer, or an elite efficient volume scorer + above average passer.

[Crymson]

Hell if Ivey switched roles with Thomas in Brooklyn you probably use the same adjectives. Brooklyn is a lousy team.

This is a player issue, not a team issue. Ivey is a very team first player who is perfectly willing to operate fully within the system role dictated to him. Thomas goes his own way.

The fact that TL is looking into and most are predicting us the be the landing spot is good news.

The notion that Langdon is pursuing Thomas has been lent zero factual basis by any reputable source -- or even any of the typical unreliable sources; nobody has so much as mentioned the two in conjunction -- and the only party doing anything in the realm of predicting the Pistons to be Thomas's ultimate landing spot is an unregulated offshore sportsbook.

No offense, but this has now been pounded home numerous times and I'm unsure why some in this thread are simply ignoring the actual facts of the matter.

Cade and Ivey (but who knows if he'll be the same player before injury) are the only true bucket go getters on the team.

Ivey's injury was a standard fibular fracture with no tendon or ligament damage and should not have any long-term performance impact.

[thesack12]

Trajan has been fine, which is about all you can ask for. I think his profile is getting inflated a bit, based simply on how terribly the Pistons have been ran for many years before TL arrived. So being "fine" looks more promising to some than it actually is.

Unlike other folks, I'm not really going to give him credit for hiring JB. Reports at the time were saying that TL was fine keeping Monty for at least one more season, but it was Gores who eventually decided to chop him. Bickerstaff was just one of the better retreads available at the time, who also wasn't really getting much consideration from other teams as retread option. I also never saw a substantiated source saying that Detroit ever formally interviewed anybody other than Bickerstaff.

At the end of the day, the coaching hire seems to be working for now so that's all that matters. But its not like it was some kind of great vision/plan from Langdon.

His drafting is obviously an incomplete right now. Last year, was a historically bad draft and TL came into the fold quite late into the process. Holland seems like he could be a solid defensive based role player, but we'll see. In any event, you can't really legitimately judge much of that pick right now. Of course not having a 1st round pick this year provides basically nothing to evaluate in regards to draft prowess.

Trades/free agency have largely been positive. The Hardaway for Grimes trade wasn't great at the time, and became worse considering the season Grimes had. I didn't like the Tek extension (as I never liked him as a player), but it was a move that was inevitable to make. The Schroder pick up was nice, but its the type/caliber of pickup that solid GM's consistently make. The Tobias signing has worked out so far, but his stock was down at the time and there were no other teams offering him what Detroit was. The Beasley signing was great. I like the Levert signing, not so much on the Robinson signing (but getting rid of Tek is a +); we'll see on both those signings.

So yeah, as I mentioned earlier Langdon has been fine. As others have mentioned, Patience might be his best attribute so far. We'll see what his legacy will ultimately be, but right now my opinion is he's one of those guys that probably won't do much to hold his team back while also not doing a whole lot to push his team forward real far. That being said, its exceedingly difficult to find one of those real difference making GM's.

[MortSahlfan]

Ivey never gets double-teamed, isn't asked to run the offense, yet still averages almost as many turnovers as assists. He has tunnel vision, puts his head down, jumps into the air without a plan, doesn't move without the ball, etc., and the horrible defense is going to be hard to overcome. There's a reason why JB staggered their minutes.

[the_l_train]

Ivey never gets double-teamed, isn't asked to run the offense, yet still averages almost as many turnovers as assists. He has tunnel vision, puts his head down, jumps into the air without a plan, doesn't move without the ball, etc., and the horrible defense is going to be hard to overcome. There's a reason why JB staggered their minutes.

He staggered the minutes because we had a huge hole at backup PG…and now we are about to have that same gaping hole once again.

I get not wanting to pay Schroder now, but pretty dumb if we are making the same mistake all over again.