Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga

[vvoland]

Podz was also hurt as a 2nd year player and helped win a game in the playoffs.

There are several players in the $11-18M range that I would choose over Podz but you might be right.

If Podz can become a more willing shooter and is able to maintain his percentages he's going to get paid. He was taking about 7 per game at the end of the season. If he can get that up to 8-10 like the warriors want him to he's going to get paid. Duncan Robinson just got 16M a year in a suppressed market and Podz does a ton more on the court.

If starts shooting line Duncan, he'll deserve every penny and I'll be thrilled if we're the ones paying him. I never trusted his shot, percentages be damned.

[whatisacenter]

There are several players in the $11-18M range that I would choose over Podz but you might be right.

If Podz can become a more willing shooter and is able to maintain his percentages he's going to get paid. He was taking about 7 per game at the end of the season. If he can get that up to 8-10 like the warriors want him to he's going to get paid. Duncan Robinson just got 16M a year in a suppressed market and Podz does a ton more on the court.

If starts shooting line Duncan, he'll deserve every penny and I'll be thrilled if we're the ones paying him. I never trusted his shot, percentages be damned.

I seriously doubt Podz will ever shoot over 39% from 3 and I doubt he will ever shoot 8-10 per game.

[Onus]

If Podz can become a more willing shooter and is able to maintain his percentages he's going to get paid. He was taking about 7 per game at the end of the season. If he can get that up to 8-10 like the warriors want him to he's going to get paid. Duncan Robinson just got 16M a year in a suppressed market and Podz does a ton more on the court.

If starts shooting line Duncan, he'll deserve every penny and I'll be thrilled if we're the ones paying him. I never trusted his shot, percentages be damned.

I seriously doubt Podz will ever shoot over 39% from 3 and I doubt he will ever shoot 8-10 per game.

Derrick white for the first time in his career shot over 7 3s per game and has never shot 40% and has only shot over 6.5 3s per 36 3x in his career. Podz actually got to 6.5 3s per 36 last year and he had a horrible slump to start the year and really turned it on at the end of the year once Butler came on to the team.

Podz avg roughly 7 3s per game in the last 14 games of the regular season. He has a good shot to avg 8 3s per game next year with Butler though Melton may take some shots away, but if he can get his per 36 to 8+ from his current 6.5 that's good enough.

[vvoland]

If Podz can become a more willing shooter and is able to maintain his percentages he's going to get paid. He was taking about 7 per game at the end of the season. If he can get that up to 8-10 like the warriors want him to he's going to get paid. Duncan Robinson just got 16M a year in a suppressed market and Podz does a ton more on the court.

If starts shooting line Duncan, he'll deserve every penny and I'll be thrilled if we're the ones paying him. I never trusted his shot, percentages be damned.

I seriously doubt Podz will ever shoot over 39% from 3 and I doubt he will ever shoot 8-10 per game.

He was 38.5 his rookie year and 37.2 last year. I just don't believe those percentages

[AirP.]

If starts shooting line Duncan, he'll deserve every penny and I'll be thrilled if we're the ones paying him. I never trusted his shot, percentages be damned.

I seriously doubt Podz will ever shoot over 39% from 3 and I doubt he will ever shoot 8-10 per game.

He was 38.5 his rookie year and 37.2 last year. I just don't believe those percentages

There's a difference in 3pt shooters of those who can catch and shoot, those who can shoot off the dribble and then someone like Curry.

Podz seems to be a very good catch and shoot 3pt shooter, shooting ~36% on 2 attempts and almost 40% this year on 3 attempts. The pull up 3s is where the issues seem to be, rookie year 45% on 1 per game, this year 32% on nearly 2 a game. Podz is iffy with the ball in his hands, but being a catch and shoot guy he seems to be solid and those types of players benefit from Butler playing with them as he attacks the lane mostly to draw in defenders and find the open 3pt shooter.

To look a little closer at Podz this last year, he was horrible before the all-star break shooting C&S3s at 33% and pullups under 30%, after the all-star game and mostly with Butler Podz shot 47% in C&S3s on 1.3 attempts and a respectable (but need to do better) 35% in pull up 3s.

Podz and Post should be in the 2nd group as 3pt finishers who plays with mostly Butler when Curry is off the floor.

[vvoland]

I seriously doubt Podz will ever shoot over 39% from 3 and I doubt he will ever shoot 8-10 per game.

He was 38.5 his rookie year and 37.2 last year. I just don't believe those percentages

There's a difference in 3pt shooters of those who can catch and shoot, those who can shoot off the dribble and then someone like Curry.

Podz seems to be a very good catch and shoot 3pt shooter, shooting ~36% on 2 attempts and almost 40% this year on 3 attempts. The pull up 3s is where the issues seem to be, rookie year 45% on 1 per game, this year 32% on nearly 2 a game. Podz is iffy with the ball in his hands, but being a catch and shoot guy he seems to be solid and those types of players benefit from Butler playing with them as he attacks the lane mostly to draw in defenders and find the open 3pt shooter.

To look a little closer at Podz this last year, he was horrible before the all-star break shooting C&S3s at 33% and pullups under 30%, after the all-star game and mostly with Butler Podz shot 47% in C&S3s on 1.3 attempts and a respectable (but need to do better) 35% in pull up 3s.

Podz and Post should be in the 2nd group as 3pt finishers who plays with mostly Butler when Curry is off the floor.

I'm sure you'd know better than us, having watched Duncan but I would be willing to bet the C&S shots Duncan gets are very different from the ones Podz is fed. Duncan is running around picks like crazy, catching of extreme movement, and going up after a hard stop. Typically with 1 or more hands in his face.

Podz gets the easiest C&S, just like MM or JK or ..., statues that get so much space and time it warps the court in 4 dimensions. If you look at Podz (or all 3, for that matter), the splits show players that are wildly inconsistent. Months of subs 30%, months above 40%, and in the end, Podz gets to 39/37%. Moody to 36/36/36/37%, JK with a crazy range of 34/37/32/30% in his 4 years on the lowest volume.

With the game on the line, in the playoffs especially, I dont want any of those 3 taking a wide open 3, based on what they've shown to date. If it had to be a 3, I'd bet on MM, but the % suggest Podz. If we do get Melton, Hoford, Seth, Podz would be behind those 3 and Steph, Buddy, and Post. In the playoffs, I might trust Jimmy's 3 more than podz.

[AirP.]

He was 38.5 his rookie year and 37.2 last year. I just don't believe those percentages

There's a difference in 3pt shooters of those who can catch and shoot, those who can shoot off the dribble and then someone like Curry.

Podz seems to be a very good catch and shoot 3pt shooter, shooting ~36% on 2 attempts and almost 40% this year on 3 attempts. The pull up 3s is where the issues seem to be, rookie year 45% on 1 per game, this year 32% on nearly 2 a game. Podz is iffy with the ball in his hands, but being a catch and shoot guy he seems to be solid and those types of players benefit from Butler playing with them as he attacks the lane mostly to draw in defenders and find the open 3pt shooter.

To look a little closer at Podz this last year, he was horrible before the all-star break shooting C&S3s at 33% and pullups under 30%, after the all-star game and mostly with Butler Podz shot 47% in C&S3s on 1.3 attempts and a respectable (but need to do better) 35% in pull up 3s.

Podz and Post should be in the 2nd group as 3pt finishers who plays with mostly Butler when Curry is off the floor.

I'm sure you'd know better than us, having watched Duncan but I would be willing to bet the C&S shots Duncan gets are very different from the ones Podz is fed. Duncan is running around picks like crazy, catching of extreme movement, and going up after a hard stop. Typically with 1 or more hands in his face.

Podz gets the easiest C&S, just like MM or JK or ..., statues that get so much space and time it warps the court in 4 dimensions. If you look at Podz (or all 3, for that matter), the splits show players that are wildly inconsistent. Months of subs 30%, months above 40%, and in the end, Podz gets to 39/37%. Moody to 36/36/36/37%, JK with a crazy range of 34/37/32/30% in his 4 years on the lowest volume.

With the game on the line, in the playoffs especially, I dont want any of those 3 taking a wide open 3, based on what they've shown to date. If it had to be a 3, I'd bet on MM, but the % suggest Podz. If we do get Melton, Hoford, Seth, Podz would be behind those 3 and Steph, Buddy, and Post. In the playoffs, I might trust Jimmy's 3 more than podz.

Correct, Duncan does take a lot of C&S3s but he also takes and makes pull up 3s at nearly a 40% rate on not just pull up 3s but shots most players shouldn't put up, only elite shooters should be taking like Curry. I'm high on Podz becoming a better/more consistent player and having Butler to create more open 3 looks for him will be good for him as he continues to work on his pull up game for the next year or 2 in hopes of being a better overall 3pt shooter.

If Curry can't get the ball, give it to Butler, let him attack the lane and find an open 3pt shooter, it's basically playing the in out game like they use to do with low post players where they'd get the ball to a low post scorer, wait for the double team and then pass out to the open guy, just a new updated version of the in out game.

Kuminga COULD work with Butler if Kuminga (Butler worked with Bam for 2 Finals runs) were willing to not call his number so much and let the ball be out of his hands, Butler will find him, especially with the cutting behind him when Butler attacks the basket to create an opening for a teammate. You could even let Kuminga know if the shot clock is winding down and Curry isn't on the court, it's your time to shine, but this one on one with 14 seconds on the shot clock just hurts the offense and gives the other team a break by not having to play defesnse as long.

[statsman]

Okay, so taking on Monk sucks. No other team in the league has taken him, so why should the Warriors?

That said, is there any other team who can realistically offer something decent for Kuminga, or at least less negative than Monk? Doesn't seem like any other team is banging on the door for Kuminga, unless there are quiet negotiations taking place. Preferably to an Eastern conference team.

[Old_Blue]

NBA scientists just announced that this last July was the longest in recorded history. Due to the El Nino like La Kuminga effect, atmospheric conditions completely stalled resulting in absolutely nothing happening. Yawn. Can't wait for him and his bad attitude to be gone.

[AirP.]

Okay, so taking on Monk sucks. No other team in the league has taken him, so why should the Warriors?

That said, is there any other team who can realistically offer something decent for Kuminga, or at least less negative than Monk? Doesn't seem like any other team is banging on the door for Kuminga, unless there are quiet negotiations taking place. Preferably to an Eastern conference team.

Having Kuminga accept the 2-year contract will be the best thing for GS for this next season, you have a much better chance at getting a better fitting player when matching salaries. Now if he takes the QO you're just down that protected 1st and the possible upgrade of Monk over Buddy/Moody. It's not a big loss.

[vvoland]

Sam Vicenie just did a bit on the JK situation. Just one more neutral observer, one that wasn't a big fan of JK going back to the Ignite, that has called the dubs offer "a s#!ty contract" and "insulting" and doesn't quite understand the reasoning behind trying to do that to him this summer. I've been open to the idea that my biases get in the way but the more I hear similar sentiments echo from people who clearly don't like JK's game, the more I'm confused as to why the dubs would do this.

It's the ultimate "have your cake and eat it too" moment. If he's so bad that you can't guarantee a 2nd year, how are you expecting to keep him around to trade for Giannis (or something of real value)?

[AirP.]

Sam Vicenie just did a bit on the JK situation. Just one more neutral observer, one that wasn't a big fan of JK going back to the Ignite, that has called the dubs offer "a s#!ty contract" and "insulting" and doesn't quite understand the reasoning behind trying to do that to him this summer. I've been open to the idea that my biases get in the way but the more I hear similar sentiments echo from people who clearly don't like JK's game, the more I'm confused as to why the dubs would do this.

It's the ultimate "have your cake and eat it too" moment. If he's so bad that you can't guarantee a 2nd year, how are you expecting to keep him around to trade for Giannis (or something of real value)?

I'm not sure who I heard it from (I think from the Hoops Collective or Zach Lowe's Podcast) but some people in the FO and some scouts were very split on what to offer Kuminga, some are good with paying him, some are not just like GS's FO, some want to keep him, some want him gone. To me it comes down to catering the offense to Kuminga's talents which is completely different than playing with Curry. You can be a talented player that doesn't fit, just look at Dennis Schroder, some places he excels in and some places he's not good at. Role and type of offense comes into play.

[EvanZ]

Sam Vicenie just did a bit on the JK situation. Just one more neutral observer, one that wasn't a big fan of JK going back to the Ignite, that has called the dubs offer "a s#!ty contract" and "insulting" and doesn't quite understand the reasoning behind trying to do that to him this summer. I've been open to the idea that my biases get in the way but the more I hear similar sentiments echo from people who clearly don't like JK's game, the more I'm confused as to why the dubs would do this.

It's the ultimate "have your cake and eat it too" moment. If he's so bad that you can't guarantee a 2nd year, how are you expecting to keep him around to trade for Giannis (or something of real value)?

I heard Vecenie the other day say he’d do exactly what the Warriors are doing.

[Onus]

Sam Vicenie just did a bit on the JK situation. Just one more neutral observer, one that wasn't a big fan of JK going back to the Ignite, that has called the dubs offer "a s#!ty contract" and "insulting" and doesn't quite understand the reasoning behind trying to do that to him this summer. I've been open to the idea that my biases get in the way but the more I hear similar sentiments echo from people who clearly don't like JK's game, the more I'm confused as to why the dubs would do this.

It's the ultimate "have your cake and eat it too" moment. If he's so bad that you can't guarantee a 2nd year, how are you expecting to keep him around to trade for Giannis (or something of real value)?

It's a contract that the Warriors want to be able to trade so they want it to be as trade friendly as possible. It's better than the QO and gives him the most money in year 1. This contract offer is telling everyone that they do not want him long term and are looking to trade him. The warriors think he will have more value as an expiring contract than on a long term contract.

The problem is that we aren't going to get much value out of JK and are only going to get it as an expiring contract meaning bad contracts that teams are wanting to dump. I highly doubt the Warriors are going to want those and we're going to be stuck with JK again the following year because nothing meets Joe's threshold for "value", so this contract will likely end up back firing because they end up paying JK more and we're going to go through this again next year.

This is what happens when you have a meddling owner.

edit* I do wonder how the Valkyries doing so well emboldens Joe

[DevinVassell]

Sam Vicenie just did a bit on the JK situation. Just one more neutral observer, one that wasn't a big fan of JK going back to the Ignite, that has called the dubs offer "a s#!ty contract" and "insulting" and doesn't quite understand the reasoning behind trying to do that to him this summer. I've been open to the idea that my biases get in the way but the more I hear similar sentiments echo from people who clearly don't like JK's game, the more I'm confused as to why the dubs would do this.

It's the ultimate "have your cake and eat it too" moment. If he's so bad that you can't guarantee a 2nd year, how are you expecting to keep him around to trade for Giannis (or something of real value)?

It's a contract that the Warriors want to be able to trade so they want it to be as trade friendly as possible. It's better than the QO and gives him the most money in year 1. This contract offer is telling everyone that they do not want him long term and are looking to trade him. The warriors think he will have more value as an expiring contract than on a long term contract.

The problem is that we aren't going to get much value out of JK and are only going to get it as an expiring contract meaning bad contracts that teams are wanting to dump. I highly doubt the Warriors are going to want those and we're going to be stuck with JK again the following year because nothing meets Joe's threshold for "value", so this contract will likely end up back firing because they end up paying JK more and we're going to go through this again next year.

This is what happens when you have a meddling owner.

edit* I do wonder how the Valkyries doing so well emboldens Joe

Well (the reported) two years is not exactly a long contract.

Any team that trades for Kuminga is obviously betting/hoping on his future potential. That's the whole point. Why would anyone trade for him on an expiring contract when he could just walk after a year? What if he hits... then your up for a massive contract a year earlier just to keep him.

Guaranteeing that reasonable second year gives Kuminga his security, ends the fiasco and is best for ALL parties concerned.

[statsman]

It just hit me, after looking at the title of this thread, whether the Warriors are done "exploring" a S&T for Kuminga. I'm sure the Warriors would be open to a discussion if some team brought to the table more than what's already been reported, but that seems rather unlikely.

[vvoland]

Sam Vicenie just did a bit on the JK situation. Just one more neutral observer, one that wasn't a big fan of JK going back to the Ignite, that has called the dubs offer "a s#!ty contract" and "insulting" and doesn't quite understand the reasoning behind trying to do that to him this summer. I've been open to the idea that my biases get in the way but the more I hear similar sentiments echo from people who clearly don't like JK's game, the more I'm confused as to why the dubs would do this.

It's the ultimate "have your cake and eat it too" moment. If he's so bad that you can't guarantee a 2nd year, how are you expecting to keep him around to trade for Giannis (or something of real value)?

I heard Vecenie the other day say he’d do exactly what the Warriors are doing.

I think his general takeaway is "dubs have JK over a barrel so why not extract the maximum from Sac or see if JK blinks first." I'm not sure he realized that guaranteeing year 2 would remove the NTC but that's less relevant. They also seem to be much bigger fans of Monk and not big fans of Buddy.

[vvoland]

Sam Vicenie just did a bit on the JK situation. Just one more neutral observer, one that wasn't a big fan of JK going back to the Ignite, that has called the dubs offer "a s#!ty contract" and "insulting" and doesn't quite understand the reasoning behind trying to do that to him this summer. I've been open to the idea that my biases get in the way but the more I hear similar sentiments echo from people who clearly don't like JK's game, the more I'm confused as to why the dubs would do this.

It's the ultimate "have your cake and eat it too" moment. If he's so bad that you can't guarantee a 2nd year, how are you expecting to keep him around to trade for Giannis (or something of real value)?

It's a contract that the Warriors want to be able to trade so they want it to be as trade friendly as possible. It's better than the QO and gives him the most money in year 1. This contract offer is telling everyone that they do not want him long term and are looking to trade him. The warriors think he will have more value as an expiring contract than on a long term contract.

The problem is that we aren't going to get much value out of JK and are only going to get it as an expiring contract meaning bad contracts that teams are wanting to dump. I highly doubt the Warriors are going to want those and we're going to be stuck with JK again the following year because nothing meets Joe's threshold for "value", so this contract will likely end up back firing because they end up paying JK more and we're going to go through this again next year.

This is what happens when you have a meddling owner.

edit* I do wonder how the Valkyries doing so well emboldens Joe

But that's the contradiction in their stance. If he's not good enough for the team to guarantee a 2nd year, you're telling the league you think his value isn't very high. At the same time, in trade offers, you're demanding a 'young player and an FRP' or saving him for a big name to come available. But if he's just an expiring, why would anyone want him in place of their star?

[floppymoose]

As for why someone would trade for his expiring deal…. two possibilities occur:

1. He is filler in a larger trade. If he isnt the important part of a trade, the short contract might be a plus other team rather than a minus.
2. A team is dumping a player to us for lux tax / cap reasons. In that case an expiring deal may be a plus.

[Onus]

Sam Vicenie just did a bit on the JK situation. Just one more neutral observer, one that wasn't a big fan of JK going back to the Ignite, that has called the dubs offer "a s#!ty contract" and "insulting" and doesn't quite understand the reasoning behind trying to do that to him this summer. I've been open to the idea that my biases get in the way but the more I hear similar sentiments echo from people who clearly don't like JK's game, the more I'm confused as to why the dubs would do this.

It's the ultimate "have your cake and eat it too" moment. If he's so bad that you can't guarantee a 2nd year, how are you expecting to keep him around to trade for Giannis (or something of real value)?

It's a contract that the Warriors want to be able to trade so they want it to be as trade friendly as possible. It's better than the QO and gives him the most money in year 1. This contract offer is telling everyone that they do not want him long term and are looking to trade him. The warriors think he will have more value as an expiring contract than on a long term contract.

The problem is that we aren't going to get much value out of JK and are only going to get it as an expiring contract meaning bad contracts that teams are wanting to dump. I highly doubt the Warriors are going to want those and we're going to be stuck with JK again the following year because nothing meets Joe's threshold for "value", so this contract will likely end up back firing because they end up paying JK more and we're going to go through this again next year.

This is what happens when you have a meddling owner.

edit* I do wonder how the Valkyries doing so well emboldens Joe

Well (the reported) two years is not exactly a long contract.

Any team that trades for Kuminga is obviously betting/hoping on his future potential. That's the whole point. Why would anyone trade for him on an expiring contract when he could just walk after a year? What if he hits... then your up for a massive contract a year earlier just to keep him.

Guaranteeing that reasonable second year gives Kuminga his security, ends the fiasco and is best for ALL parties concerned.

No they aren't betting on his future, the warriors are saying they think he will have more value by trading him for salary cap relief and if he does fit then they have another year that they can pick up his team option. It's all about flexibility for the team trading him which is what the warriors want. They want him to have as many suitors as possible and think him as an expiring accomplishes that.