KG or KD

[tsherkin]

Who do you compare him against? He does it at least a lot better than KG, no?

Tough to make the direct comparison because in OKC, he had more help than KG did in Boston. And then both won titles with stacked rosters, right? But we know that KG was doing work on D and as a playmaker while offering decent scoring, and D has not been a huge strength for KD. And his playmaking isn't at the level of the greats, either. So that's where the argument comes into action, you know?

[Cavsfansince84]

They are in almost totally different tiers imo. KD only touched KG's level for about 2-3 years. It's more interesting to compare post 2019 KD to post 2009 KG.

[dygaction]

Who do you compare him against? He does it at least a lot better than KG, no?

Tough to make the direct comparison because in OKC, he had more help than KG did in Boston. And then both won titles with stacked rosters, right? But we know that KG was doing work on D and as a playmaker while offering decent scoring, and D has not been a huge strength for KD. And his playmaking isn't at the level of the greats, either. So that's where the argument comes into action, you know?

D has always been a net positive for Durant as well. KD was the by far the best and most efficient scorer with Curry as a teammate and LeBron/Irving as opponent. 35.2ppg/8.2r/5.4a/1.0s/1.6b, 56/47/93 split in 17 finals and you call it "doesn't elevate his teams much"... KG's career high was 35 points with 143 games played. The difference between them in scoring during their title years is similar to Jokic to Adebayo. Bam has been top 5 in DPOY in the past 5 consecutive years but individual defense here does not have remotely the same impact as individual offense.

[tsherkin]

D has always been a net positive for Durant as well.

Not to any extent worth discussing relative to KG, though.

KD was the by far the best and most efficient scorer with Curry as a teammate and LeBron/Irving as opponent.

Was super nice being in single coverage the entire time, for sure.

35.2ppg/8.2r/5.4a/1.0s/1.6b, 56/47/93 split in 17 finals and you call it "doesn't elevate his teams much"...

Quoted me, remember? Not migya, who said that

[dygaction]

They are in almost totally different tiers imo. KD only touched KG's level for about 2-3 years. It's more interesting to compare post 2019 KD to post 2009 KG.

KG was top 5 (#2, #5, #2, #1, #3) in MVP 5x times and 4x 1st team all-nba for career. KD matched that (MVP #2, #5, #2, #2, #1, and 5x 1st team all-nba) when he turned 25 years old followed by a big injury. I think people really forgot how buggy KD was.

[Cavsfansince84]

They are in almost totally different tiers imo. KD only touched KG's level for about 2-3 years. It's more interesting to compare post 2019 KD to post 2009 KG.

KG was top 5 (#2, #5, #2, #1, #3) in MVP 5x times and 4x 1st team all-nba for career. KD matched that (MVP #2, #5, #2, #2, #1, and 5x 1st team all-nba) when he turned 25 years old followed by a big injury. I think people really forgot how buggy KD was.

I get that but I'm taking that into account. mvp finish by itself does not always = ability or impact. It can but its not some hard and fast thing that we must adhere to on this board. KG also suffers from having his 06-07 seasons wiped away in mvp vote and I'm not even some big pro KG guy on here. In fact, I'm probably in the lower 50% in how I rate him in terms of career. I'm prob also in the lower 50% of how I rate KD but that's my own honest views of each guy.

[dygaction]

D has always been a net positive for Durant as well.

Not to any extent worth discussing relative to KG, though.

KD was the by far the best and most efficient scorer with Curry as a teammate and LeBron/Irving as opponent.

Was super nice being in single coverage the entire time, for sure.

35.2ppg/8.2r/5.4a/1.0s/1.6b, 56/47/93 split in 17 finals and you call it "doesn't elevate his teams much"...

Quoted me, remember? Not migya, who said that

The same way, KG's offense is not any extent worth discussing relative to KD.

I don't view being able to punish the opponent as by far the best scorer when single covered any worse than no need to be the top 3 best scores on the court and still win the finals.

[tsherkin]

The same way, KG's offense is not any extent worth discussing relative to KD.

Well no, that's wrong. Because while they are quite different in their scoring ability, KG's playmaking ability was quite a bit superior to KD in that regard.

I don't view being able to punish the opponent as by far the best scorer when single covered any worse than no need to be the top 3 best scores on the court and still win the finals.

I mean, when it's the threat of the other guy creating that scenario in a way no other teammate had ever done before, I am inclined to disagree with you.

[dygaction]

The same way, KG's offense is not any extent worth discussing relative to KD.

Well no, that's wrong. Because while they are quite different in their scoring ability, KG's playmaking ability was quite a bit superior to KD in that regard.

I don't view being able to punish the opponent as by far the best scorer when single covered any worse than no need to be the top 3 best scores on the court and still win the finals.

I mean, when it's the threat of the other guy creating that scenario in a way no other teammate had ever done before, I am inclined to disagree with you.

Don't even know where you get this from. Their difference in scoring ability is simply that KD is better on every aspect. KG was also not a better play maker than KD. KD has 8 seasons averaging 5 or more apg. KG has 6 seasons. KD also has slightly higher ast%, mainly because his gravity creates tons of kick-out looks and he’s a strong secondary creator. I will give KG slight edge in table setting and running offense from the elbow, but they are comparable. KD's raw assist numbers could have been much higher but when you are the greatest finisher who can take efficient shots, you should not pass as much.

[f4p]

This seems too charitable to Durant and undersells KG. Durant's scoring can be argued as GOAT level but his overall offensive package cannot be argued so. Wouldn't grade his defense as "pretty good" either.

On the other hand, KG is certified GOAT level as a defender and provided more value on offense with his passing and shooting ability than Durant did with his defense (length and some rim protection but not noteworthy otherwise).

Give me KG any day.

For ATG top 20s, I may say KG would rank second worst on O only after Bill Russell. For KD, his defense may not be even among the top 5 worst.

I'd go even further and say even on just the offensive side, I still prefer what KG offers (secondary scorer, floor spacer, connective passer, good playmaker especially for a big). Durant is of course the better individual scorer and outside shooter. I do not think he's better than KG by enough on that end to make up for the gap in passing and playmaking.

Is that based on rOrtg data or just stylistic preference. Like the 2004 timberwolves in Garnett’s peak season have a playoff rORtg of like -1, and that’s actually with a boost from the Lakers series, it was -2.5 before that.

Meanwhile the warriors became an unstoppable playoff offense with Durant and they weren’t in 2015 and 2016.

I think someone else called KD a catalyst but not an enzyme and I agree with that. I don’t think he can be the solo star and run a great offense, but if he gets a competent point guard to run things, then KD just turbocharges everything because then he’s in his comfort zone and is just a 7 foot deadly shooting cheat code. It’s hard to say because his good PGs were Westbrook, harden, and Steph ( or draymond) and his bad PGs are basically just not having a PG (phoenix, 2013 Westbrook injury) so we haven’t seen much in between.

[tsherkin]

Don't even know where you get this from. Their difference in scoring ability is simply that KD is better on every aspect. KG was also not a better play maker than KD. KD has 8 seasons averaging 5 or more apg. KG has 6 seasons.

APG is not the only arbiter of playmaking value. They are very much not comparable in that regard. KG's reads on offense were definitely much better.

[homecourtloss]

KD has become a bit underrated due to some ridiculous comparisons with LeBron and because of the value people have come to understand of offensive hubs that contribute more than just scoring (even hyper efficient scoring). But even so, this is KG quite easily. KG’s offense is closer to KD’s than KD’s defense is anywhere near KG’s.

[Whopper_Sr]

For ATG top 20s, I may say KG would rank second worst on O only after Bill Russell. For KD, his defense may not be even among the top 5 worst.

I'd go even further and say even on just the offensive side, I still prefer what KG offers (secondary scorer, floor spacer, connective passer, good playmaker especially for a big). Durant is of course the better individual scorer and outside shooter. I do not think he's better than KG by enough on that end to make up for the gap in passing and playmaking.

Is that based on rOrtg data or just stylistic preference. Like the 2004 timberwolves in Garnett’s peak season have a playoff rORtg of like -1, and that’s actually with a boost from the Lakers series, it was -2.5 before that.

Meanwhile the warriors became an unstoppable playoff offense with Durant and they weren’t in 2015 and 2016.

I think someone else called KD a catalyst but not an enzyme and I agree with that. I don’t think he can be the solo star and run a great offense, but if he gets a competent point guard to run things, then KD just turbocharges everything because then he’s in his comfort zone and is just a 7 foot deadly shooting cheat code. It’s hard to say because his good PGs were Westbrook, harden, and Steph ( or draymond) and his bad PGs are basically just not having a PG (phoenix, 2013 Westbrook injury) so we haven’t seen much in between.

Player archetype preference. Think several (lesser) players could've replicated KD's production on those Warriors teams so I don't deem it high.

Durant is like a supercharged Carmelo and while best-in-class, it's still a class of Melo-type big wing iso scorer players. Can't see myself taking that package over KG's.

It is hard to say for both guys as KD has had either star PGs or backup PGs to work with and KG went from the badlands in Minnesota to the Hanging Gardens of Babylon in Boston with little else to draw from.

[migya]

KD in the 2000s wouldn't score anywhere near the points he has, not with the much more difficult condition for scoring. KG has him everywhere else and his scoring in the 2000s wasn't much below the best scorers mostly, particularly bigs. Durant doesn't elevate his teams much, not among alltime greats at least.

Are we talking about an at least 4" taller Reggie Miller with MUCH improved vision and handling? KD’s combination of height, handle, and shooting makes him one of the most unguardable players in history. A pro max version of Bird in terms of scoring.

KD is a career 50/39/88 guy averaging 27ppg with .620TS% vs. KG's 19.1ppg with .549TS% (only counting till Boston time, similar to KD's current career length).

Durant doesn't elevate his teams much, not among alltime greats at least.[/quote]

Who do you compare him against? He does it at least a lot better than KG, no?[/quote]


Durant is a great scorer, no doubt, but his era has been easier to score, the 2000s were the hardest decade to score at least since the 60s. The best scorers in the 2000s that were perimeter oriented were the faster players that could shoot but broke down the defense and got to the basket well, not what Durant is good at, though he is for his height he is quite good. He'd score but nothing like he has in his career. He doesn't post up, he shoots.

He hasn't elevated his teams like most if not all the usual top20-25 ranked players. He has had loaded teams and it was obvious in his Warriors stint that he didn't elevate that team much, it was Curry and Draymond.

[tsherkin]

The best scorers in the 2000s that were perimeter oriented were the faster players that could shoot but broke down the defense and got to the basket well, not what Durant is good at, though he is for his height he is quite good. He'd score but nothing like he has in his career. He doesn't post up, he shoots.

What?

First of all, KD in his youth was a better face-up slasher than Dirk, who scored just fine in the 2000s. And the best scorers in the 2000s were all ATG talents. Shaq, peak McGrady, Kobe, right? Paul Pierce was a complete wing with a mixture of C+S, post up, transition and slashing offense, who drew fouls exceptionally well. Vince was an athletic slasher with a shot at his peak. Karl Malone was an old big with strength, a jumper and the PnR. AI shot a lot and scored at mediocre to poor efficiency. Then you had Duncan, Webber and Garnett.

Durant was hella athletic in his 20s. He'd have been just fine in that league as a scorer, there's literally nothing to suggest that a guy with his size, speed, handle and shot would have issues in the early 2000s.

[migya]

The best scorers in the 2000s that were perimeter oriented were the faster players that could shoot but broke down the defense and got to the basket well, not what Durant is good at, though he is for his height he is quite good. He'd score but nothing like he has in his career. He doesn't post up, he shoots.

What?

First of all, KD in his youth was a better face-up slasher than Dirk, who scored just fine in the 2000s. And the best scorers in the 2000s were all ATG talents. Shaq, peak McGrady, Kobe, right? Paul Pierce was a complete wing with a mixture of C+S, post up, transition and slashing offense, who drew fouls exceptionally well. Vince was an athletic slasher with a shot at his peak. Karl Malone was an old big with strength, a jumper and the PnR. AI shot a lot and scored at mediocre to poor efficiency. Then you had Duncan, Webber and Garnett.

Durant was hella athletic in his 20s. He'd have been just fine in that league as a scorer, there's literally nothing to suggest that a guy with his size, speed, handle and shot would have issues in the early 2000s.

He'd score among the best but not like he has in his career, all post grind and slow 2000s. He's a scorer and among the best ever, my point is the conditions in that decade would slow him .

[tsherkin]

He'd score among the best but not like he has in his career, all post grind and slow 2000s. He's a scorer and among the best ever, my point is the conditions in that decade would slow him .

They would change some of the particulars, sure. His specific FG% wouldn't look the same as it has in Golden State or later, sure. But it's not like he'd have trouble with the era. He'd be one of the highest-volume, highest-efficiency scorers in the league. Probably the best, as it happens, leastwise after his first couple seasons.