Fisher: Raptors are still shopping RJ Barrett and Immanuel Quickley

[GLF]

I think its kinda unfair how RJ's production is looked at when a lot of the time he was playing with rookies and g-leaguers and given grenades on offence to try to create with no spacing. It was RJ and Dick trying to solo teams with IQ and Barnes in and out of the lineup. Or it would be RJ and Barnes and Barnes would just defer to RJ and leave him on an island to create out of nothing.

The fact that RJ can have the same level of offensive efficiency as someone like Franz Wagner (maxed out, highly touted) yet gets crapped on is funny. Franz is for sure the better defender and is physically larger, but if I can get Franz scoring and better passing with my 4th option I'm pretty satisfied. Pretty sure Franz is making a lot more than RJ is and will be as well.

RJ only played 16 games with IQ and Scottie all suited up in the same game all season last year. He was forced to play above his intended role and now gets crapped on for being forced to do it because everyone was injured around him. Remember how amazing he looked right before we traded Pascal 2 years ago?

In those 7 games he played with IQ/Scottie/Pascal, he averaged 19/7/3 on 55/39/76 (64%TS). With this new version that damn near doubled his AST% this past year, I think we can get similar offensive efficiency and more assists as well. If he can stay in the mid 70s as a FT shooter, that TS% will be spooky.

His path to becoming a clear positive player is clear and not unobtainable. Wouldn't be shocked one bit if by the deadline we have teams trying to trade FOR him

Agreed with pretty much all of this. I would just say that Franz has better offensive efficiency over his career than RJ. Where are you seeing them being similar? Now I’ll admit I’m only looking at TS%, but from what I saw Franz was more efficient. Other than those 32 games in 2023-2024 that RJ played with us he hasn’t really been that close to Franz efficiency wise. He’s not extremely far off but not very close either.

[HumbleRen]

RJ’s a really polarizing player it seems. I don’t quite understand it as I feel he’s been much better than expected from the Knicks where he was considerably pretty bad. If anything I’m pretty neutral, not bullish on keeping or trading him. We don’t have any home run picks waiting to take his spot at this time, but I’m not adverse to trading him either.

He’ll always be polarizing because of how much you have to augment your starting lineup to shield his defensive woes.

It’s just really hard to be a SG and be a bad defender on good to great teams in the NBA right now.
Celtics had Holiday/White.
Knicks got Mikal or OG playing the 2.
Pacers has Nembhard.
OKC has basically great defenders at the 2 at every position.
Nuggets got Braun.
Rockets had Amen Thompson and Brooks.
Clippers had Dunn.
Orlando had Black and Suggs.
Hawks got Dyson Daniels.


You just don’t really see great teams employ one way offensive players who score at a mid level efficiency rate unless they’re like an extremely efficient 3 way level advantage creator.

You can live with your PG or lead ball handler being a weak defender but your SG? That’s a tough pill to swallow.

[mihaic]

RJ’s a really polarizing player it seems. I don’t quite understand it as I feel he’s been much better than expected from the Knicks where he was considerably pretty bad. If anything I’m pretty neutral, not bullish on keeping or trading him. We don’t have any home run picks waiting to take his spot at this time, but I’m not adverse to trading him either.

He’ll always be polarizing because of how much you have to augment your starting lineup to shield his defensive woes.

It’s just really hard to be a SG and be a bad defender on good to great teams in the NBA right now.
Celtics had Holiday/White.
Knicks got Mikal or OG playing the 2.
Pacers has Nembhard.
OKC has basically great defenders at the 2 at every position.
Nuggets got Braun.
Rockets had Amen Thompson and Brooks.
Clippers had Dunn.
Orlando had Black and Suggs.
Hawks got Dyson Daniels.


You just don’t really see great teams employ one way offensive players who score at a mid level efficiency rate unless they’re like an extremely efficient 3 way level advantage creator.

You can live with your PG or lead ball handler being a weak defender but your SG? That’s a tough pill to swallow.

It depends, if the pg defends well they can exchange roles. Rj in second unit w⁰ith Shead, Mogbo could be very good.

[HumbleRen]

RJ’s a really polarizing player it seems. I don’t quite understand it as I feel he’s been much better than expected from the Knicks where he was considerably pretty bad. If anything I’m pretty neutral, not bullish on keeping or trading him. We don’t have any home run picks waiting to take his spot at this time, but I’m not adverse to trading him either.

He’ll always be polarizing because of how much you have to augment your starting lineup to shield his defensive woes.

It’s just really hard to be a SG and be a bad defender on good to great teams in the NBA right now.
Celtics had Holiday/White.
Knicks got Mikal or OG playing the 2.
Pacers has Nembhard.
OKC has basically great defenders at the 2 at every position.
Nuggets got Braun.
Rockets had Amen Thompson and Brooks.
Clippers had Dunn.
Orlando had Black and Suggs.
Hawks got Dyson Daniels.


You just don’t really see great teams employ one way offensive players who score at a mid level efficiency rate unless they’re like an extremely efficient 3 way level advantage creator.

You can live with your PG or lead ball handler being a weak defender but your SG? That’s a tough pill to swallow.

It depends, if the pg defends well they can exchange roles. Rj in second unit w⁰ith Shead, Mogbo could be very good.

It’s pretty hard finding starting caliber PG’s who are great on defence. That’s why most SG’s play the defensive role.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

He’ll always be polarizing because of how much you have to augment your starting lineup to shield his defensive woes.

It’s just really hard to be a SG and be a bad defender on good to great teams in the NBA right now.
Celtics had Holiday/White.
Knicks got Mikal or OG playing the 2.
Pacers has Nembhard.
OKC has basically great defenders at the 2 at every position.
Nuggets got Braun.
Rockets had Amen Thompson and Brooks.
Clippers had Dunn.
Orlando had Black and Suggs.
Hawks got Dyson Daniels.


You just don’t really see great teams employ one way offensive players who score at a mid level efficiency rate unless they’re like an extremely efficient 3 way level advantage creator.

You can live with your PG or lead ball handler being a weak defender but your SG? That’s a tough pill to swallow.

It depends, if the pg defends well they can exchange roles. Rj in second unit w⁰ith Shead, Mogbo could be very good.

It’s pretty hard finding starting caliber PG’s who are great on defence. That’s why most SG’s play the defensive role.

Probably should guard wings and rely on his strength. Too slow for guards imo

[HumbleRen]

It depends, if the pg defends well they can exchange roles. Rj in second unit w⁰ith Shead, Mogbo could be very good.

It’s pretty hard finding starting caliber PG’s who are great on defence. That’s why most SG’s play the defensive role.

Probably should guard wings and rely on his strength. Too slow for guards imo

He’ll probably guard the 4’s.

BI will be hidden on the opposite team’s worst offensive player, Scottie will be the primary wing defender. This is kinda what I mean by why he’s polarizing because you have to account for his defensive issues despite him not being a great surplus in impact.

Scottie should be playing off ball roaming defence but because RJ and BI are both poor defenders, we have to put him on primary wing stars.

[TGM]

I think its kinda unfair how RJ's production is looked at when a lot of the time he was playing with rookies and g-leaguers and given grenades on offence to try to create with no spacing. It was RJ and Dick trying to solo teams with IQ and Barnes in and out of the lineup. Or it would be RJ and Barnes and Barnes would just defer to RJ and leave him on an island to create out of nothing.

The fact that RJ can have the same level of offensive efficiency as someone like Franz Wagner (maxed out, highly touted) yet gets crapped on is funny. Franz is for sure the better defender and is physically larger, but if I can get Franz scoring and better passing with my 4th option I'm pretty satisfied. Pretty sure Franz is making a lot more than RJ is and will be as well.

RJ only played 16 games with IQ and Scottie all suited up in the same game all season last year. He was forced to play above his intended role and now gets crapped on for being forced to do it because everyone was injured around him. Remember how amazing he looked right before we traded Pascal 2 years ago?

In those 7 games he played with IQ/Scottie/Pascal, he averaged 19/7/3 on 55/39/76 (64%TS). With this new version that damn near doubled his AST% this past year, I think we can get similar offensive efficiency and more assists as well. If he can stay in the mid 70s as a FT shooter, that TS% will be spooky.

His path to becoming a clear positive player is clear and not unobtainable. Wouldn't be shocked one bit if by the deadline we have teams trying to trade FOR him

I like RJ, but just worry more about fit. If RJs FT was better he would fit the team a lot better. I can even accept the inconsistent 3PT shooting. However, he is hard to play on the floor with Barnes and Jakob when those guys can’t be relied on hitting two FTs when the game is on the line

[tsherkin]

I think its kinda unfair how RJ's production is looked at when a lot of the time he was playing with rookies and g-leaguers and given grenades on offence to try to create with no spacing. It was RJ and Dick trying to solo teams with IQ and Barnes in and out of the lineup. Or it would be RJ and Barnes and Barnes would just defer to RJ and leave him on an island to create out of nothing.

The problem is how much effort needs to go into making him a viable player in the way we need to use him for him to be worth our time, you know? It significantly impacts his overall utility because of how exacting and specific the environment needs for him not to be violently inefficient, particularly when a lot of that stems from his own inadequacy. In most players, that would just be written off as "he isn't worth it in this role," as is often said of him.

Here, we don't really have that luxury, and there is any path at all to us being able to use him somewhat effectively, so we're trying to milk every last bit of value out of what we have. That leaves an opportunity for him, but it's hard to ignore that he isn't really a particularly good scorer due to his deficient FT shooting and weak finishing around the basket. I think most people have at least acknowledged that if we can lower his volume and arrange his shot profile in a more advantageous way, he could be a solid 3rd option or an acceptable second option in an ideal-performance type of scenario.

I don't think anyone cares about a 7-game sample, because those are about as worthless as they come. We do know that he played about 35 games with us right after the trade doing almost nothing but shooting inside 10 feet and taking 3s, and that worked out well for us. And we know that he can move well off-ball, he can hit from the corners and that he's about the only real rim pressure we have. Those are things we can work with, but if we're expecting 64% TS out of him, then we're just deluding ourselves. If we can get him to league-average efficiency, that would be a coup for us. If he's doing that at like 17+ ppg, then we are getting good value from him.

And it's definitely reasonable to expect that he should look at least a little better with BI and Quick on the floor, especially at reduced volume. He isn't a good 3pt shooter and he has absolutely no middle game, but if we can get him to like 16-17 points per game on 12 FGA/g or so, then we're in good shape. And that isn't an unreasonable hope. He might be a little better than that if literally everything goes super well, but that's asking a lot from a guy who has serially proven that he can't really hack it at 14-17 FGA/g, you know?

[DreamTeam09]

For what it's worth, Orlando fans are complaining & hoping for Wagner's 3ball to turn around too, so I guess it's not just our fan base