Kawhi vs. Vince: Who’s the Bigger Raptors Legend?

[ImmortalD24]

May I be so bold as to reframe the discussion as follows?

Bigger Toronto legend? Vince.

Bigger Raptors legend? Kawhi.

(This is very dumb, but I also think it’s kind of correct)

Yup. Kawhi is pretty much a 1 year George Mikan. Grand scheme of things he'll be in the shadows if the Raptors win more rings. But Vince will be looked at like say an Elgin Baylor. More celebrated by fans given his popularity and style even though he contributed to zero championships as a player.

[YogurtProducer]

Either way you yourself mentioned the players who were impacted by Vince, again all those players mentioned & listed echoed those sentiments, they aren't just mine

Sure, but they were most likely equally, if not more effected, by the simple fact there was a Canadian NBA team. If not Vince - it would have been someone else who was our "star".

It is just insane to suggest in 5-10 years the championship run, and Kawhi, wont be propped up as an important part of Raptors lore If anything, the championship is going to sink Vince's history with the team. No longer is our apex a guy who did cool dunks. We have an actual championship with guys who actually accomplished something.

Kids growing up now will look to that. Not to Vince **** Carter.

[YogurtProducer]

I mentioned it in my first post, but I think it’s a good test:

When you think of the Toronto Raptors, who do you think of first?

When you think of Vince Carter, which team do you think of first?

When you think of Kawhi Leonard, which team do you think of first?

Lowry / Raptors / Raptors... But that is because I am a Raptors fan

But thinking of the Raptors first when you think of Carter really doesn't mean much. It just means he accomplished nothing in his career. I also think of the Raptors when I think of Derozan, or Valanciunas, or FVV, or Siakam.. but they are certainly not bigger Toronto legends.

[CPT]

I mentioned it in my first post, but I think it’s a good test:

When you think of the Toronto Raptors, who do you think of first?

When you think of Vince Carter, which team do you think of first?

When you think of Kawhi Leonard, which team do you think of first?

Lowry / Raptors / Raptors... But that is because I am a Raptors fan

But thinking of the Raptors first when you think of Carter really doesn't mean much. It just means he accomplished nothing in his career. I also think of the Raptors when I think of Derozan, or Valanciunas, or FVV, or Siakam.. but they are certainly not bigger Toronto legends.

You have to do both, lol.

Raptors? Carter. Carter? Raptors.

The first one is most important, and the second one is a check. It could be used to establish the strongest connection of a player who played on a few teams, but you’re right that in isolation it doesn’t mean much.

The second might not be necessary, as I can’t think of too many players who would fail at that level (Orlando? Shaq. Shaq? Lakers?), but it may have a few applications if you really go down the list.

[RonaldArtest]

I voted VC just for taking the organization on a relevancy level another step in its infant stages, but can’t fault anyone who says Kawhi. That performance vs the 76ers, when the rest of the team was terrified to shoot the ball, was something I’ve honestly never seen before.

[SaveTheHens]

A championship for the raps is lucky if you get it once in your lifetime.. esp with the doom n gloom media n sometimes fans surrounding it all.. nice to see the team break through towards something lasting.
Vince? Like nice start to the franchise n cool superstar player but left nothing lasting. Kawhi played like prime jordan that playoffs n im glad we got to utilize it. Greed n games n influences sours things after but he got the job done like no other.

[YogurtProducer]

I mentioned it in my first post, but I think it’s a good test:

When you think of the Toronto Raptors, who do you think of first?

When you think of Vince Carter, which team do you think of first?

When you think of Kawhi Leonard, which team do you think of first?

Lowry / Raptors / Raptors... But that is because I am a Raptors fan

But thinking of the Raptors first when you think of Carter really doesn't mean much. It just means he accomplished nothing in his career. I also think of the Raptors when I think of Derozan, or Valanciunas, or FVV, or Siakam.. but they are certainly not bigger Toronto legends.

You have to do both, lol.

Raptors? Carter. Carter? Raptors.

The first one is most important, and the second one is a check. It could be used to establish the strongest connection of a player who played on a few teams, but you’re right that in isolation it doesn’t mean much.

The second might not be necessary, as I can’t think of too many players who would fail at that level (Orlando? Shaq. Shaq? Lakers?), but it may have a few applications if you really go down the list.

I guess I don’t think VC is the first player that comes to mind anymore for Raptors. I’d argue Lowry / Demar both get thought of first, but recency bias is strong there.

I feel like every year that passes VC comes less relevant. Winning the ship cemented that he wasn’t as important anymore. We had actual accomplishments to be proud of. Not a fancy player who won a round and never even 50 games.

[Tacoma]

Lowry / Raptors / Raptors... But that is because I am a Raptors fan

But thinking of the Raptors first when you think of Carter really doesn't mean much. It just means he accomplished nothing in his career. I also think of the Raptors when I think of Derozan, or Valanciunas, or FVV, or Siakam.. but they are certainly not bigger Toronto legends.

You have to do both, lol.

Raptors? Carter. Carter? Raptors.

The first one is most important, and the second one is a check. It could be used to establish the strongest connection of a player who played on a few teams, but you’re right that in isolation it doesn’t mean much.

The second might not be necessary, as I can’t think of too many players who would fail at that level (Orlando? Shaq. Shaq? Lakers?), but it may have a few applications if you really go down the list.

I guess I don’t think VC is the first player that comes to mind anymore for Raptors. I’d argue Lowry / Demar both get thought of first, but recency bias is strong there.

I feel like every year that passes VC comes less relevant. Winning the ship cemented that he wasn’t as important anymore. We had actual accomplishments to be proud of. Not a fancy player who won a round and never even 50 games.

That’s why, as the saying goes, time heals all wounds. But a legend should be timeless. To use a silly example, Genghis Khan is still a legend some 800 years later.

Vince led a bad team to its first playoff series win against the hated Knicks and to within a Game 7 buzzer beater shot of making the ECP. That team without Vince would be a lottery team.

Kawhi led us to a ring with a great team that won 53 wins a year later without him. They are both Raptors legends in their own right but I would give Vince the nod if these are the only 2 choices. Someone who never wanted to play for the Raptors and took the first train out here using the Raptors as leverage to scheme his way to LA should not be the greatest Toronto Raptors legend.

[asuran]

Bigger Raptors Legend
Undoubtedly, Vince Carter.

Anywhere in the world when talking about Raptors, the 1st name that pops up is and always will be Vince Carter.

Anyone that says otherwise, has never spend time outside of Canada and talked sports with the locals.

---

However when it comes to greatest achievement, then yes, Kawhi Leonard for bringing us the Championship, no doubt.

[rapz101]

I get it. Vince put the Raptors on the map. Brought the love of basketball to a generation of basketball players we are enjoying in the NBA today (shoutout team Canada). I personally prefer the number 15 be retired for Amir Johnson before VC. So in short, I am choosing the guy who brought our first chip to Canada, even if he did leave the year after.

My self respect won’t allow me to choose a guy who quit on us despite all the BS he dealt with the organization. Not to rehash the whole VC-Raptors saga, but I can’t get over how he quit on us. I can’t, not now, not ever. I want to celebrate winners and people who wanted to be here, and VC did not. So no, VC isn’t the correct choice.

[Mikistan]

You have to do both, lol.

Raptors? Carter. Carter? Raptors.

The first one is most important, and the second one is a check. It could be used to establish the strongest connection of a player who played on a few teams, but you’re right that in isolation it doesn’t mean much.

The second might not be necessary, as I can’t think of too many players who would fail at that level (Orlando? Shaq. Shaq? Lakers?), but it may have a few applications if you really go down the list.

I guess I don’t think VC is the first player that comes to mind anymore for Raptors. I’d argue Lowry / Demar both get thought of first, but recency bias is strong there.

I feel like every year that passes VC comes less relevant. Winning the ship cemented that he wasn’t as important anymore. We had actual accomplishments to be proud of. Not a fancy player who won a round and never even 50 games.

That’s why, as the saying goes, time heals all wounds. But a legend should be timeless. To use a silly example, Genghis Khan is still a legend some 800 years later.

Vince led a bad team to its first playoff series win against the hated Knicks and to within a Game 7 buzzer beater shot of making the ECP. That team without Vince would be a lottery team.

Kawhi led us to a ring with a great team that won 53 wins a year later without him. They are both Raptors legends in their own right but I would give Vince the nod if these are the only 2 choices. Someone who never wanted to play for the Raptors and took the first train out here using the Raptors as leverage to scheme his way to LA should not be the greatest Toronto Raptors legend.

Vince didnt take the first train out, instead he salted the earth on his way out demanding trades and tanking his own value with his uninspired play. Funny how you don't type that when comparing above. Oh he missed a game 7 buzzer beater shot???? And what did Kawhi do? Oh right.

[YogurtProducer]

You have to do both, lol.

Raptors? Carter. Carter? Raptors.

The first one is most important, and the second one is a check. It could be used to establish the strongest connection of a player who played on a few teams, but you’re right that in isolation it doesn’t mean much.

The second might not be necessary, as I can’t think of too many players who would fail at that level (Orlando? Shaq. Shaq? Lakers?), but it may have a few applications if you really go down the list.

I guess I don’t think VC is the first player that comes to mind anymore for Raptors. I’d argue Lowry / Demar both get thought of first, but recency bias is strong there.

I feel like every year that passes VC comes less relevant. Winning the ship cemented that he wasn’t as important anymore. We had actual accomplishments to be proud of. Not a fancy player who won a round and never even 50 games.

That’s why, as the saying goes, time heals all wounds. But a legend should be timeless. To use a silly example, Genghis Khan is still a legend some 800 years later.

Vince led a bad team to its first playoff series win against the hated Knicks and to within a Game 7 buzzer beater shot of making the ECP. That team without Vince would be a lottery team.

Kawhi led us to a ring with a great team that won 53 wins a year later without him. They are both Raptors legends in their own right but I would give Vince the nod if these are the only 2 choices. Someone who never wanted to play for the Raptors and took the first train out here using the Raptors as leverage to scheme his way to LA should not be the greatest Toronto Raptors legend.

So a missed game 7 buzzer beater, and forcing a trade > a made game 7 buzzer beater and leaving in free agency?

Make it make sense.

[asuran]

I guess I don’t think VC is the first player that comes to mind anymore for Raptors. I’d argue Lowry / Demar both get thought of first, but recency bias is strong there.

I feel like every year that passes VC comes less relevant. Winning the ship cemented that he wasn’t as important anymore. We had actual accomplishments to be proud of. Not a fancy player who won a round and never even 50 games.

That’s why, as the saying goes, time heals all wounds. But a legend should be timeless. To use a silly example, Genghis Khan is still a legend some 800 years later.

Vince led a bad team to its first playoff series win against the hated Knicks and to within a Game 7 buzzer beater shot of making the ECP. That team without Vince would be a lottery team.

Kawhi led us to a ring with a great team that won 53 wins a year later without him. They are both Raptors legends in their own right but I would give Vince the nod if these are the only 2 choices. Someone who never wanted to play for the Raptors and took the first train out here using the Raptors as leverage to scheme his way to LA should not be the greatest Toronto Raptors legend.

So a missed game 7 buzzer beater, and forcing a trade > a made game 7 buzzer beater and leaving in free agency?

Make it make sense.

Longevity as a Raptor and synonymous with the name Raptors.
Question of the thread is, who is bigger Raptors "Legend"

If question was greatest achievement as a Raptor then it is Kawhi until the our next superstar that takes us all the way.

[Mikistan]

That’s why, as the saying goes, time heals all wounds. But a legend should be timeless. To use a silly example, Genghis Khan is still a legend some 800 years later.

Vince led a bad team to its first playoff series win against the hated Knicks and to within a Game 7 buzzer beater shot of making the ECP. That team without Vince would be a lottery team.

Kawhi led us to a ring with a great team that won 53 wins a year later without him. They are both Raptors legends in their own right but I would give Vince the nod if these are the only 2 choices. Someone who never wanted to play for the Raptors and took the first train out here using the Raptors as leverage to scheme his way to LA should not be the greatest Toronto Raptors legend.

So a missed game 7 buzzer beater, and forcing a trade > a made game 7 buzzer beater and leaving in free agency?

Make it make sense.

Longevity as a Raptor and synonymous with the name Raptors.
Question of the thread is, who is bigger Raptors "Legend"

If question was greatest achievement as a Raptor then it is Kawhi until the our next superstar that takes us all the way.

Vince is the answer to the question: Who is the most legendary quitter in raptors history?

[YogurtProducer]

That’s why, as the saying goes, time heals all wounds. But a legend should be timeless. To use a silly example, Genghis Khan is still a legend some 800 years later.

Vince led a bad team to its first playoff series win against the hated Knicks and to within a Game 7 buzzer beater shot of making the ECP. That team without Vince would be a lottery team.

Kawhi led us to a ring with a great team that won 53 wins a year later without him. They are both Raptors legends in their own right but I would give Vince the nod if these are the only 2 choices. Someone who never wanted to play for the Raptors and took the first train out here using the Raptors as leverage to scheme his way to LA should not be the greatest Toronto Raptors legend.

So a missed game 7 buzzer beater, and forcing a trade > a made game 7 buzzer beater and leaving in free agency?

Make it make sense.

Longevity as a Raptor and synonymous with the name Raptors.
Question of the thread is, who is bigger Raptors "Legend"

If question was greatest achievement as a Raptor then it is Kawhi until the our next superstar that takes us all the way.

Okay, then it’s Lowry.

Carter won a dunk contest lol