Top 25 peaks of the 2001-25: #9-#10 Spots

[70sFan]

Welcome to the new iteration of the greatest peaks project with the new format! This time, we will rank the greatest 25 peaks of the last 25 seasons:

2000/01 - 2024/25.

Just to remind the rules:

1. Official ballots must include 4 different player seasons (name + year) with the (at least short) explanation for each of them. We will conclude the 2 best peaks in this thread based on the results of the voting, using Kemeny method.

2. The thread will be open for 7 days (up to August 31st), unless the longer period will be necessary. I am open to make it longer, but we have to make it through all the threads and all the eras.

3. The participation criteria are the following:

1. Account creation before August 2024.
2. At least 100 posts on RealGM forums.

Of course I recommend everyone who doesn't meet the criteria to contribute on these threads without voting, that would help us adding you in the later stages of the project.

Remember to pick the year for your choices and please, provide all the seasons worth the place IN ORDER - that would help us to conclude the year for a winning player.

The criteria are up to you, but you need to briefly explain it for the rest of the voting panel. It is good to take into account the data from surrounding seasons to evaluate players, but remember to pick a specific season.

Deadline: 12:00 am Wednesday 1st October

Here is the voting panel:

Spoiler:

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If anyone wants to join in, please let me know.

The list:


#1. 2008/09 LeBron James
#2. 2002/03 Tim Duncan
#3. 2022/23 Nikola Jokic
#4. 2016/17 Stephen Curry
#5. 2000/01 Shaquille O'Neal
#6. 2003/04 Kevin Garnett
#7. 2020/21 Giannis Antetokumpo
#8. 2005/06 Dwyane Wade

[70sFan]

Keep in mind that I moved the voting deadline to next Wednesday!

The next tier of players are for me Kawhi/Shai/Kobe/Paul, though I can see putting Nash/Durant/Dirk in discussion as well. Also, isn't that the time to discuss Harden and Doncic?

[eminence]

Kobe/Dirk/SGA my 3 remaining from last ballot.

Kawhi/Paul/KD/Harden/Dray my immediate thoughts for the last spot.

Don't see Nash or Luka quite yet (Dwight probably in that next range too for me).

[Djoker]

As far as bigs go... Embiid, Davis and Dirk are my next three.

[Cavsfansince84]

As far as bigs go... Embiid, Davis and Dirk are my next three.

I don't really understand how in the last thread you said something along the lines of what a player does in the postseason is their real level and then have Embiid as your next big ahead of both Davis & Dirk given that Embiid is one of the biggest playoff droppers of all time and both of the others have terrific playoff runs under their belts with rings.

[One_and_Done]

My top 3 will be easy; Kawhi, KD, and SGA. I'll need to ruminate more on my #4 choice. There are alot of candidates, e.g. Nash, CP3, Dirk, Luka, Butler, etc. I should probably give 2020 AD some more serious consideration also.

[Djoker]

As far as bigs go... Embiid, Davis and Dirk are my next three.

I don't really understand how in the last thread you said something along the lines of what a player does in the postseason is their real level and then have Embiid as your next big ahead of both Davis & Dirk given that Embiid is one of the biggest playoff droppers of all time and both of the others have terrific playoff runs under their belts with rings.

My bad. They are the next three names, not in that order. Embiid will probably be third.

[lessthanjake]

I think this one will actually be relatively easy for me. It’s going to be 2011 Dirk, 2025 SGA, 2019 Kawhi, and 2009 Kobe, likely in that order. Those four have been among the group of players that I’ve been considering for multiple threads now, and now there’s only four of them left, so there’s no decision of which ones to include and not include. I think it’ll probably be in the order I listed above, since I voted for 2011 Dirk, 2025 SGA, and 2019 Kawhi in that order last thread, and 2009 Kobe barely missed my ballot.

There’s a next tier of guys including people like Harden, Durant, Chris Paul, Nash, and Anthony Davis. They’re not super far off the above-listed guys, but I’m fairly comfortable having them in a tier just below the above-mentioned guys. After this thread, I’m going to have to start making some decisions about those guys.

[eminence]

I expect Embiid/Davis to both get in before I'd vote for them - seasons are just too imbalanced (RS/PO) for me to be super high on.

Embiid is a top 10 'good' player for the era for me, but unfortunately too injury prone - has never made it through 2 rounds healthy (healthy PO appearances were '20 and '24 first round exits - which are not even close to his best regular seasons).

[Cavsfansince84]

I expect Embiid/Davis to both get in before I'd vote for them - seasons are just too imbalanced (RS/PO) for me to be super high on.

Embiid is a top 10 'good' player for the era for me, but unfortunately too injury prone - has never made it through 2 rounds healthy (healthy PO appearances were '20 and '24 first round exits - which are not even close to his best regular seasons).

I don't think I'd vote embiid in my top 20. No real playoff results to speak of, lots of terrible series for an mvp level player and even if you want to lean on his rs his career high in gp is 68. Also the whole foul baiting aspect to his scoring game.

[jalengreen]

I expect Embiid/Davis to both get in before I'd vote for them - seasons are just too imbalanced (RS/PO) for me to be super high on.

Embiid is a top 10 'good' player for the era for me, but unfortunately too injury prone - has never made it through 2 rounds healthy (healthy PO appearances were '20 and '24 first round exits - which are not even close to his best regular seasons).

Depends what you mean by healthy postseason because he didn't miss any games I guess, but he was pretty far from healthy in 2024 fwiw. I don't think many other players would have played (or they would have had a minutes restriction at least) but he was facing a lot of pressure at that point.

The ESPN long form piece on him painted a pretty grim picture based on what his trainer was saying

Spoiler:

But the pressure of his rushed return from injury was starting to tell. He had been diagnosed with Bell's palsy days before the series started, after he began suffering migraines. He was short of fitness because of the injury, visibly limping, worried about the integrity of his grotesquely swollen knee, enduring nearly round-the-clock treatment and forced to play heavy minutes in the most critical games of the season. His vision was blurry, and his head ached. He was hardly sleeping because his left eye wouldn't close.

Caspare began running Embiid through a battery of exercises to help him reorient himself in space, to move his whole head to scan his surroundings because his eye couldn't move in the way he was used to.

"I was sitting next to him in the locker room," his former teammate Nicolas Batum told me. "I saw his knee before every game, after every game."

Batum shook his head. "I saw his knee," he said again. "I have no idea how he could even walk."

Embiid doesn't know how he managed to keep playing. Hanlen would ask him after every game if he was going to keep going. "I was like, 'No. There is no chance,'" Embiid says.

Hardly anyone knew how bad it was. Information about him is at a premium in the best of times; in a crisis, he closes himself off. Embiid was "alone in his agony," Caspare says. "People don't really know what's what. They think it's his knee. But it's not his knee. It's his knee, it's his eye, it's his whole system."

In the middle of late-night treatment sessions, Embiid would look at Caspare, his eyes drained. "I don't know if I can do it again," he would say. "I can't do another minute." But then he'd talk himself back up, "OK, I'm going to do another minute."

Embiid cycled through a wheel of emotions: deflated, worried about his long-term health, overwhelmed by pain, desperate to play, desperate to be saved from himself, afraid of letting the team and the fans down, wary of letting anyone know what condition he was in.

On the morning of April 25, the day of Game 3, Caspare left Embiid's house after another late-night treatment session. She had seen enough. She sent Embiid a long text at 2:29 a.m.

It reads, in part: "Do you have the ability to give yourself some grace and compassion? I'm here to remind you that you are deserving of that. Who cares about what people think about your eye? You are allowed to fail. You're allowed to lose. But you are not allowed to feel shame or feel hopeless. There is no place for such emotions. You have fought. It has been a courageous fight."

She tried to give him an out, worrying his efforts had reached "crushing proportions." She urged him to play under a hard minutes restriction, even though it was the playoffs: "Maybe we discuss it with the team. Joel wants to go out there and give everything he has, but the team has to put a hard minute restriction on you, limit you to 25 minutes."

Regardless of his decision, she promised: "You can do anything. And I am with you no matter what."

She didn't hear from him that morning or afternoon. He showed up at her treatment table in the arena at his usual time. She started getting him ready. She handed him her phone.

"Did you read this?" Caspare asked.

"Yes," Embiid said.

They shared a look -- he was going to play. Embiid scored 50 points that night in a must-win Game 3, a playoff career high.

The Sixers lost the series in six games. Embiid averaged 33 points, 10.8 rebounds and 5.7 assists. He had nothing left late in games when the adrenaline wore off and the pain took hold. "I knew I only had about two quarters," he says. "My body just was, like, 'Nope, that's it.' There was nothing I could do. I shot probably, like, 10 percent in the fourth quarter."

Embiid looks back at the series with ambivalence. "In those situations, you wish some of the people upstairs kind of had your back and were like, this is not OK," he says. "You're not playing."

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45747447/joel-embiid-philadelphia-76ers-star-sees-you

I think the bubble sweep is effectively the only healthy postseason of his career, crazily enough.

[lessthanjake]

I think for Embiid I’d either go with 2021 or 2024 for the peak year I’d choose. He wasn’t actually healthy in either postseason, but he did play and was pretty good (though not as good as his healthy level). In 2022 and 2023, he was bad in the playoffs IMO, so I don’t think I’d pick them, even though the regular seasons were great. In terms of regular season, he was an absolute monster in the 2024 regular season before he got injured, but obviously only playing 39 regular season games is a big negative. He played more in 2021, but still missed over 20 games and when he did play he was great but not as good as in 2024. Another option is 2019, but I just don’t really think he was nearly as good that year as he would later become. So yeah, not sure what year I’d pick, but it’d probably be 2021 or 2024. I actually really might pick 2024 for him, despite him missing more than half the regular season. He was so incredibly good when he did play. But yeah personally, given all the health issues, I wouldn’t be voting for Embiid for a while here.

[Special_Puppy]

For those who don’t have him top 2 on your ballot yet, I’m kinda curious what is keeping you from more seriously considering Chris Paul for these spots. Absolute monster box score numbers in the regular and post-season. Monster impact numbers (5th all time in career RAPM).

[falcolombardi]

For those who don’t have him top 2 on your ballot yet, I’m kinda curious what is keeping you from more seriously considering Chris Paul for these spots. Absolute monster box score numbers in the regular and post-season. Monster impact numbers (5th all time in career RAPM).

I have not been voting but probably his tendency for untimely injuries

[One_and_Done]

For those who don’t have him top 2 on your ballot yet, I’m kinda curious what is keeping you from more seriously considering Chris Paul for these spots. Absolute monster box score numbers in the regular and post-season. Monster impact numbers (5th all time in career RAPM).

I have not been voting but probably his tendency for untimely injuries

Surely that is irrelevant in a project that is about your peak year. You just pick a year he wasn't injured.

[Cavsfansince84]

For those who don’t have him top 2 on your ballot yet, I’m kinda curious what is keeping you from more seriously considering Chris Paul for these spots. Absolute monster box score numbers in the regular and post-season. Monster impact numbers (5th all time in career RAPM).

I have not been voting but probably his tendency for untimely injuries

I think it's more about the playoff losses(losing 3-1 leads or getting blown out) and going up against dudes who had some great series while winning titles still. I don't think he has enough separation in the rs to overlook the playoff part of it yet.

[lessthanjake]

For those who don’t have him top 2 on your ballot yet, I’m kinda curious what is keeping you from more seriously considering Chris Paul for these spots. Absolute monster box score numbers in the regular and post-season. Monster impact numbers (5th all time in career RAPM).

Honestly, for me it’s really hard to choose a year where someone went out in the first or second round—which is like every one of his best years (except 2018 if we think that’s a candidate for one of his best years). There’s just not a lot there in years like that for me to evaluate postseason quality, nor is there the team achievement that I think is a significant component of “greatness.”

There’s also just not a lot of his years without really serious negatives. I categorically won’t vote for years with playoff-ending injuries, which eliminates 2016 and maybe 2018. He has a couple other prime years where he was genuinely bad in the playoffs (2009 and 2012), so those years are basically out. And then there’s some issues that aren’t dealbreakers, but are serious negatives, including missing time in the playoffs without a playoff-ending injury (2015), and missing a lot of regular season games (2010, 2014, 2017, and 2018).

The only prime years that didn’t get mentioned above are 2008, 2011, and 2013. His teams didn’t even make the second round in 2011 and 2013, (and were beaten in the first round by teams that went on to get swept), and I’m just not a big fan of first-round-exit years when it comes to ranking the very greatest peaks, especially when the guy didn’t go supernova in the series his team lost (which Chris Paul didn’t quite do either year—though he was quite good in the 2011 first-round loss).

So there’s just serious negatives for virtually every year of his prime. I think the year I’d choose for him is 2008. I imagine I’ll eventually bite on that year in the next few threads. He had a genuinely great regular season, leading a team that wasn’t overly talented to a very good record. His team did lose in the second-round, but he played great in those two rounds, and it was against very good opponents in both rounds. When they lost, it was only in 7 games to a way more talented team. That year was the most impressed I was by CP3 in real time, and I think it’s what I’d choose for him. But I can’t quite take it over years where guys had really good seasons and then led their team to a title while playing well in the playoffs.

[eminence]

I like '11 CP3 a lot more than most folks seem to.

But agreeing with Jakes general point that CP3 doesn't really have a year that checks as many boxes as I'd like. Perfectly reasonable ballot pick of course.

Currently strongly considering '16 Dray for my final ballot spot.

[Cavsfansince84]

I like '11 CP3 a lot more than most folks seem to.

But agreeing with Jakes general point that CP3 doesn't really have a year that checks as many boxes as I'd like. Perfectly reasonable ballot pick of course.

Currently strongly considering '16 Dray for my final ballot spot.

I can see why someone might consider putting Draymond on their ballot but at the same time I don't feel like there was enough proof of concept of him without Steph&Klay to put him this high. There are a lot of guys left who I think either proved or came close to proving they could be either the clear best or co-best player on a title team. Even a guy like Big Ben sort of proved it as well and I don't think anyone is close to considering him yet. With Dray idk if he even truly was a top 5 player in the league in his peak season either.

[One_and_Done]

I like '11 CP3 a lot more than most folks seem to.

But agreeing with Jakes general point that CP3 doesn't really have a year that checks as many boxes as I'd like. Perfectly reasonable ballot pick of course.

Currently strongly considering '16 Dray for my final ballot spot.

A team built around CP3 wins 50+ games. A team built around Draymond wins 25-30 games.