Varsho/Moreno/Kirk Discussion Thread

[Randle McMurphy]

Read on Twitter

The trade was won on this swing alone. What a player. The real MVP.

[PushDaRock]

Read on Twitter

The trade was won on this swing alone. What a player. The real MVP.

Varsho 2.0 WAR > Moreno 2.6 WAR

MVP MVP MVP

[Randle McMurphy]

:

Read on Twitter

The trade was won on this swing alone. What a player. The real MVP.

Varsho 2.0 WAR > Moreno 2.6 WAR

MVP MVP MVP

Kirk better +

Read on Twitter

50+ HR pace from the real MVP. They miss the playoffs without him.

[PushDaRock]

:

Read on Twitter

The trade was won on this swing alone. What a player. The real MVP.

Varsho 2.0 WAR > Moreno 2.6 WAR

MVP MVP MVP

Kirk better +

Read on Twitter

50+ HR pace from the real MVP. They miss the playoffs without him.

52-39 Without the MVP
39-29 with the MVP

They would be doomed without him!!!

[brwnman]

He’s actually the reason they’re likely going to lose the division. The Jays got stretch happened when he was out and they started tailing off as he was coming back because players knew an inferior player would be stealing their job soon.

It’s a direct correlation.

[brwnman]

Alejandro Kirk
BA .285
OBP .352
OPS .759
OPS+ 109
SB 1
HR/162 - 15.5
bWAR/162 - 2.46
fWAR/162 - 5.44


Gabriel Moreno
BA .291
OBP .354
OPS .804
OPS+ 120
SB 2
HR/162 - 18.9
bWAR/162 - 3.37
fWAR/162 - 5.89


What they gonna say now?

Yep.. Kirk better.

[LLJ]

Stats be damned. Kirk and Varsho really came through with big hits in the past few games

[Randle McMurphy]

Stats be damned. Kirk and Varsho really came through with big hits in the past few games

Read on Twitter

They came up with the two biggest hits of the season. Their haters have been exposed and vanquished for all time, never to return.

What a trade.

[Randle McMurphy]

Alejandro Kirk
BA .285
OBP .352
OPS .759
OPS+ 109
SB 1
HR/162 - 15.5
bWAR/162 - 2.46
fWAR/162 - 5.44


Gabriel Moreno
BA .291
OBP .354
OPS .804
OPS+ 120
SB 2
HR/162 - 18.9
bWAR/162 - 3.37
fWAR/162 - 5.89


What they gonna say now?

Yep.. Kirk better.

Kirk better? No, Kirk best.

Read on Twitter

[brwnman]

Oh the argument now is… “IGNORE THE STATS!” - keep moving them goal posts folks. 3 straight years that the Jays have lost this trade.

[s e n s i]

Oh the argument now is… “IGNORE THE STATS!” - keep moving them goal posts folks. 3 straight years that the Jays have lost this trade.

people, this here

a real life post from a real life person

on the same day the jays win the division thanks in part to two of the main subjects of this thread

at least marty york can be considered “entertainment”

[Raps in 4]

Gabriel Bustreno: 2.7 fWAR (in 82 games)

Captain Kirk: 4.3 fWAR (in 129 games)

Daulton "Mike Trout" Varsho: 2.2 fWAR (in 70 games)

In all seriousness though, Moreno and Varsho had pretty much identical seasons, and Kirk wasn't even part of the trade. This trade was still a wash. It filled a position of need, but I still feel Moreno could have landed a player better than Varsho.

But then, we're in the playoffs, so who cares.

[Randle McMurphy]

Oh the argument now is… “IGNORE THE STATS!” - keep moving them goal posts folks. 3 straight years that the Jays have lost this trade.

It’s done. You’ve lost and nobody is buying it anymore.

Watch on YouTube

[Mehar]

Gabriel Bustreno: 2.7 fWAR (in 82 games)

Captain Kirk: 4.3 fWAR (in 129 games)

Daulton "Mike Trout" Varsho: 2.2 fWAR (in 70 games)

In all seriousness though, Moreno and Varsho had pretty much identical seasons, and Kirk wasn't even part of the trade. This trade was still a wash. It filled a position of need, but I still feel Moreno could have landed a player better than Varsho.

But then, we're in the playoffs, so who cares.

The trade was Gurriel and Moreno for Varsho. For the millionth F'n time, if people want to discuss the trade- why is Kirk discussed like he was a part of the trade and acquired from Arizona? He was already an all-star here in 2022. Kirk struggled in 2023 and 2024 and I trashed him for being mediocre offensively for two seasons; but he has returned to his 2022 form, and I salute him for being the contributor he was especially in today's game.

Gurriel missed the past 4 weeks to injury, while both Varsho and Moreno missed almost two months to injury also this year. Once again, the trade was Varsho for Gurriel and Moreno. It was a 2 for 1 trade. Kirk should not even be discussed as part of the trade. You can discuss Varsho vs. Moreno and Gurriel, but Kirk was already an all-star here in 2022 and not a part of the deal. Leave him out of the trade discussion once again.

[brwnman]

Oh the argument now is… “IGNORE THE STATS!” - keep moving them goal posts folks. 3 straight years that the Jays have lost this trade.

people, this here

a real life post from a real life person

on the same day the jays win the division thanks in part to two of the main subjects of this thread

at least marty york can be considered “entertainment”

When stats and facts don't support your argument; it's "let me enjoy this moment. "

[Randle McMurphy]

Read on Twitter

The best catcher in Jays history. They chose well.

[s e n s i]

Oh the argument now is… “IGNORE THE STATS!” - keep moving them goal posts folks. 3 straight years that the Jays have lost this trade.

people, this here

a real life post from a real life person

on the same day the jays win the division thanks in part to two of the main subjects of this thread

at least marty york can be considered “entertainment”

When stats and facts don't support your argument; it's "let me enjoy this moment. "

my argument has been for 2 years, that it was and always will be hilarious that people called this trade "the worst in baseball history" after "gabriel moreno" had a two-week hot streak in october after which people penciled him in for cooperstown. he ultimately ended that postseason with a 101 wRC+. there are plenty of stats and facts that support that 1) the trade was nowhere close to being bad (let alone a historically bad one) and 2) that gabriel moreno is not going to the hall of fame.

[JaysRule15]

Oh the argument now is… “IGNORE THE STATS!” - keep moving them goal posts folks. 3 straight years that the Jays have lost this trade.

people, this here

a real life post from a real life person

on the same day the jays win the division thanks in part to two of the main subjects of this thread

at least marty york can be considered “entertainment”

When stats and facts don't support your argument; it's "let me enjoy this moment. "

If you're going to make a proper argument arguing why you feel the trade was bad, by all means go for it. But please refrain from personal attacks or baiting. Your recent posts have gotten a couple reports already. We have this thread to keep the Varsho trade debate isolated in a single spot, but if it stops being a debate and becomes a name-calling contest, this thread will be locked.

[Fairview4Life]

Moreno with 1 more stolen base than Kirk lol.

[JaysRule15]

Gabriel Bustreno: 2.7 fWAR (in 82 games)

Captain Kirk: 4.3 fWAR (in 129 games)

Daulton "Mike Trout" Varsho: 2.2 fWAR (in 70 games)

In all seriousness though, Moreno and Varsho had pretty much identical seasons, and Kirk wasn't even part of the trade. This trade was still a wash. It filled a position of need, but I still feel Moreno could have landed a player better than Varsho.

But then, we're in the playoffs, so who cares.

The trade was Gurriel and Moreno for Varsho. For the millionth F'n time, if people want to discuss the trade- why is Kirk discussed like he was a part of the trade and acquired from Arizona? He was already an all-star here in 2022. Kirk struggled in 2023 and 2024 and I trashed him for being mediocre offensively for two seasons; but he has returned to his 2022 form, and I salute him for being the contributor he was especially in today's game.

Gurriel missed the past 4 weeks to injury, while both Varsho and Moreno missed almost two months to injury also this year. Once again, the trade was Varsho for Gurriel and Moreno. It was a 2 for 1 trade. Kirk should not even be discussed as part of the trade. You can discuss Varsho vs. Moreno and Gurriel, but Kirk was already an all-star here in 2022 and not a part of the deal. Leave him out of the trade discussion once again.

While I agree with the sentiment that Kirk's production shouldn't be completely counted as a return from the Varsho trade, you do have to look at Kirk's production as part of the full context. At the time of the trade, Moreno's value was high and Kirk's value was declining and his production had dipped. The front office made the bet that Kirk would improve and went with him over Moreno. If Kirk was the one traded over Moreno, we would lose whatever Kirk has done for us this season. And who's to say what Moreno would've done for us in a tougher division during a pennant chase.

That's why it's so hard to look at these type of trades in a vacuum.