Rumors, Random Thoughts, and Non-threadworthy Posts The 19th Hole

[YayBasketball]

Watching the preseason, I am way more open to moving Kessler. I think having a ball mover at center is really beneficial for Ace. He is playing really well with Nurkic, and I think some small-ball 5 minutes with Filipowski and Love would also work well for him. We'd have a really fun offense and absolutely no defense at all, lose a ton of games, but really get to see which young players are long-term keepers.

Pelicans get Kessler to bolster their playoff chances/ stay out of the lottery. They've negotiated a 4 yr./$100m extension that can only be given before the regular season. They would need to find a way to dump Murray's contract for an expiring (HOU? MIA?). Jazz want to cash in and start season with a clean-slate/ball-moving Centers.

Jazz get: Missi + Rozier (waive) + ___ pick/swap capital via NOP
Pels get: Kessler (extended) + K. Anderson + Niang + Fonteccio
Heat get: D. Murray + Hawkins + 2nd(s) via NOP

Jazz get a younger rim running replacement in Missi who can grow in a bench role, has shown flashes on offense. The draft compensation can be 2027 swap with NOP/MIL and worst of Utah's 2027 LAL/CLE/UTA/MIN 1st (lowest not conveyed to Phoenix)? One future first 2028 or beyond could be in play, but should have protections. The Rozier / Anderson/Niang inclusion isn't ideal from the Jazz's vet roster building- but they do it to help facilitate the deal. They could keep Rozier as a trade chip until the deadline or waive him immediately.

Pels build a top defense around Kessler and Herb, and hope the Zion, Murphy, Poole trio can lead a respectable offense, with Bey, Alvarado, Fears, Queen and the new vets contributing. No lotto pick to ATL!

Heat strike early on getting a starting vet PG who could thrive in their system, with enough breathing room in the East to add Murray back in January and reinforce a playoff run. (This probably is the most unrealistic part of the mock trade, with teams probably waiting until Murray is back playing to consider trading for him. Also, Heat have been reluctant to take on long term money for non-star players).
-------

Jazz:

Nurkic/ Missi
Lauri/ Filipowski
Hendricks/ Brice/ Cody
Bailey/ George/ Svi
Clayton/ Collier
-------------------------------

Pels:

Kessler/ Looney/ Matkovic
Zion/ Queen/ Niang
Trey/ Fonteccio/ Anderson
Herb/ Bey/ Peavy
Poole/ Jose/ Fears
---------------------

Heat:

Ware/ Jovic
Bam/ Jaquez
Wiggins/ Powell
Herro/ Kasparas/ Hawkins
Murray/ Davion

[penbeast0]

Watching the preseason, I am way more open to moving Kessler. I think having a ball mover at center is really beneficial for Ace. He is playing really well with Nurkic, and I think some small-ball 5 minutes with Filipowski and Love would also work well for him. We'd have a really fun offense and absolutely no defense at all, lose a ton of games, but really get to see which young players are long-term keepers.

Pelicans get Kessler to bolster their playoff chances/ stay out of the lottery. They've negotiated a 4 yr./$100m extension that can only be given before the regular season. They would need to find a way to dump Murray's contract for an expiring (HOU? MIA?). Jazz want to cash in and start season with a clean-slate/ball-moving Centers.

Jazz get: Missi + Rozier (waive) + ___ pick/swap capital via NOP
Pels get: Kessler (extended) + K. Anderson + Niang + Fonteccio
Heat get: D. Murray + Hawkins + 2nd(s) via NOP

Jazz get a younger rim running replacement in Missi who can grow in a bench role, has shown flashes on offense. The draft compensation can be 2027 swap with NOP/MIL and worst of Utah's 2027 LAL/CLE/UTA/MIN 1st (lowest not conveyed to Phoenix)? One future first 2028 or beyond could be in play, but should have protections. The Rozier / Anderson/Niang inclusion isn't ideal from the Jazz's vet roster building- but they do it to help facilitate the deal. They could keep Rozier as a trade chip until the deadline or waive him immediately.

Pels build a top defense around Kessler and Herb, and hope the Zion, Murphy, Poole trio can lead a respectable offense, with Bey, Alvarado, Fears, Queen and the new vets contributing. No lotto pick to ATL!

Heat strike early on getting a starting vet PG who could thrive in their system, with enough breathing room in the East to add Murray back in January and reinforce a playoff run. (This probably is the most unrealistic part of the mock trade, with teams probably waiting until Murray is back playing to consider trading for him. Also, Heat have been reluctant to take on long term money for non-star players).
-------

Jazz:

Nurkic/ Missi
Lauri/ Filipowski
Hendricks/ Brice/ Cody
Bailey/ George/ Svi
Clayton/ Collier
-------------------------------

Pels:

Kessler/ Looney/ Matkovic
Zion/ Queen/ Niang
Trey/ Fonteccio/ Anderson
Herb/ Bey/ Peavy
Poole/ Jose/ Fears
---------------------

Heat:

Ware/ Jovic
Bam/ Jaquez
Wiggins/ Powell
Herro/ Kasparas/ Hawkins
Murray/ Davion

Kessler for Missi is an interesting starting point if Utah is looking for more of an offensive playmaking 5 and New Orleans for more defense next to Zion. The contract situations mitigate some (all?) of Kessler's experience advantage. You don't need the whole Murray, Rozier, etc. complication if the basic idea is sound. Just an agreement on value/draft compensation.

[HadAnEffectHere]

The Pelicans just traded a potential top 4 pick for a center.

None of the Pelicans' moves make sense, but you're basically just trying to argue about what direction Weaver's bizarre team building strategy takes.

And Weaver's strategy is pretty clearly "swing for stars literally every time no matter how bad the fit is." Missi is a potential star and Kessler is not so Weaver won't make that trade even though Kessler is better and a better fit.

Fears and Queen are quite literally the worst possible fits with Zion, Herb Jones, and Missi, but Weaver doesn't care as they have star potential.

[babyjax13]

Watching the preseason, I am way more open to moving Kessler. I think having a ball mover at center is really beneficial for Ace. He is playing really well with Nurkic, and I think some small-ball 5 minutes with Filipowski and Love would also work well for him. We'd have a really fun offense and absolutely no defense at all, lose a ton of games, but really get to see which young players are long-term keepers.

Pelicans get Kessler to bolster their playoff chances/ stay out of the lottery. They've negotiated a 4 yr./$100m extension that can only be given before the regular season. They would need to find a way to dump Murray's contract for an expiring (HOU? MIA?). Jazz want to cash in and start season with a clean-slate/ball-moving Centers.

Jazz get: Missi + Rozier (waive) + ___ pick/swap capital via NOP
Pels get: Kessler (extended) + K. Anderson + Niang + Fonteccio
Heat get: D. Murray + Hawkins + 2nd(s) via NOP

Jazz get a younger rim running replacement in Missi who can grow in a bench role, has shown flashes on offense. The draft compensation can be 2027 swap with NOP/MIL and worst of Utah's 2027 LAL/CLE/UTA/MIN 1st (lowest not conveyed to Phoenix)? One future first 2028 or beyond could be in play, but should have protections. The Rozier / Anderson/Niang inclusion isn't ideal from the Jazz's vet roster building- but they do it to help facilitate the deal. They could keep Rozier as a trade chip until the deadline or waive him immediately.

Pels build a top defense around Kessler and Herb, and hope the Zion, Murphy, Poole trio can lead a respectable offense, with Bey, Alvarado, Fears, Queen and the new vets contributing. No lotto pick to ATL!

Heat strike early on getting a starting vet PG who could thrive in their system, with enough breathing room in the East to add Murray back in January and reinforce a playoff run. (This probably is the most unrealistic part of the mock trade, with teams probably waiting until Murray is back playing to consider trading for him. Also, Heat have been reluctant to take on long term money for non-star players).
-------

Jazz:

Nurkic/ Missi
Lauri/ Filipowski
Hendricks/ Brice/ Cody
Bailey/ George/ Svi
Clayton/ Collier
-------------------------------

Pels:

Kessler/ Looney/ Matkovic
Zion/ Queen/ Niang
Trey/ Fonteccio/ Anderson
Herb/ Bey/ Peavy
Poole/ Jose/ Fears
---------------------

Heat:

Ware/ Jovic
Bam/ Jaquez
Wiggins/ Powell
Herro/ Kasparas/ Hawkins
Murray/ Davion

Kessler for Missi is an interesting starting point if Utah is looking for more of an offensive playmaking 5 and New Orleans for more defense next to Zion. The contract situations mitigate some (all?) of Kessler's experience advantage. You don't need the whole Murray, Rozier, etc. complication if the basic idea is sound. Just an agreement on value/draft compensation.

Kessler averages more assists per 36, so I don't really see that as a playmaking upgrade? If it is just to get a rotation center and an asset, that makes some sense.

[penbeast0]

Kessler averages more assists per 36, so I don't really see that as a playmaking upgrade? If it is just to get a rotation center and an asset, that makes some sense.

I rate Missi a bit higher than rotation. I'd say he was a low end starter as a rookie with room to grow as he is only 21 years old where Kessler is 24. Didn't see him a lot last year though as NO was not a team I watched much.

[jbk1234]

I think the two additional years Missi has on a rookie contract makes the swap pretty even. I wouldn't add anything if I were the Pelicans unless I was pretty confident Missi was a miss.

[SlimShady83]

Reaves is balling for preseason and most likely will during the season...

Is a Reaves/Gafford straight swap still fair Reaves ball out with all the bigs in Dallas.

Luka gets two bigs to pair with again?

[YayBasketball]

I think the two additional years Missi has on a rookie contract makes the swap pretty even. I wouldn't add anything if I were the Pelicans unless I was pretty confident Missi was a miss.

That's interesting; I've wondered how others view Missi. Advanced stats say he was bad a rim defense and rim finishing, but as a rookie on an injured/tanking team, he exeeded expectations and has the right humble 'want to get better' mindset. He was also surprisingly durable, rarely getting injured and showed a lot of toughness even when giving up a lot of weight inside.

If the swap of Missi / Kessler is somewhat even, that seems like a good starting point. The issue then becomes Kessler's contract status. I guess if Pels really rate Kessler's rim protection and rebounding, then making the swap given his impending RFA status would be worth it if they don't have to give up any further pick assets.

-But then Pels would lose all leverage in cap-clearing trades (Murray), since they would have to clear a lot of salary within this season/next offseason to pay Kessler his new contract, or risk losing him in RFA to some cap space team like the Nets or Wizards. Ideally, Pels would like to have him locked in to his new extension now before the season, to secure his role on the team and allow him to play more freely without the upcoming RFA looming over the season.

[YayBasketball]

Kessler for Missi is an interesting starting point if Utah is looking for more of an offensive playmaking 5 and New Orleans for more defense next to Zion. The contract situations mitigate some (all?) of Kessler's experience advantage. You don't need the whole Murray, Rozier, etc. complication if the basic idea is sound. Just an agreement on value/draft compensation.

Yea, I tried to wrap in the issue of Pels clearing future cap to give Kessler his new contract extension. If they did a Missi for Kessler swap, I guess it could be worth it to play it out with the better rim-protection fit and cross the RFA bridge next offseason. But that would kill all leverage in a needed cap-clearing trade (Murray) if teams know that Pels have to trade some big salary to pay Kessler his next deal.

[YayBasketball]

Kessler averages more assists per 36, so I don't really see that as a playmaking upgrade? If it is just to get a rotation center and an asset, that makes some sense.

He has flashed some off the dribble driving ability, passing still coming along. He did have a dribble the legnth of the floor then lob pass, though! He's a point-Center in the making! [x]

Read on Twitter

[/x]

[YayBasketball]

The Pelicans just traded a potential top 4 pick for a center.

None of the Pelicans' moves make sense, but you're basically just trying to argue about what direction Weaver's bizarre team building strategy takes.

And Weaver's strategy is pretty clearly "swing for stars literally every time no matter how bad the fit is." Missi is a potential star and Kessler is not so Weaver won't make that trade even though Kessler is better and a better fit.

Fears and Queen are quite literally the worst possible fits with Zion, Herb Jones, and Missi, but Weaver doesn't care as they have star potential.

Interesting take with some fair points. Yet many are saying Queen may be more of a '4' than a Center, and he played alongside a traditional 5 big most of the time at Maryland. Is Missi really a potential star? That's a fresh take. The idea would be, they took their star upside gamble on Zion, Trey, Poole, Fears and Queen-- and Kessler would be a steadying defensive pillar alongside Herb to let the stars shine.

[jbk1234]

I think the two additional years Missi has on a rookie contract makes the swap pretty even. I wouldn't add anything if I were the Pelicans unless I was pretty confident Missi was a miss.

That's interesting; I've wondered how others view Missi. Advanced stats say he was bad a rim defense and rim finishing, but as a rookie on an injured/tanking team, he exeeded expectations and has the right humble 'want to get better' mindset. He was also surprisingly durable, rarely getting injured and showed a lot of toughness even when giving up a lot of weight inside.

If the swap of Missi / Kessler is somewhat even, that seems like a good starting point. The issue then becomes Kessler's contract status. I guess if Pels really rate Kessler's rim protection and rebounding, then making the swap given his impending RFA status would be worth it if they don't have to give up any further pick assets.

-But then Pels would lose all leverage in cap-clearing trades (Murray), since they would have to clear a lot of salary within this season/next offseason to pay Kessler his new contract, or risk losing him in RFA to some cap space team like the Nets or Wizards. Ideally, Pels would like to have him locked in to his new extension now before the season, to secure his role on the team and allow him to play more freely without the upcoming RFA looming over the season.

If the Pelicans want to give it one last try with Zion, I get it. If he gets injured again, I think you just cut him.

[Scoot McGroot]

Kessler for Missi is an interesting starting point if Utah is looking for more of an offensive playmaking 5 and New Orleans for more defense next to Zion. The contract situations mitigate some (all?) of Kessler's experience advantage. You don't need the whole Murray, Rozier, etc. complication if the basic idea is sound. Just an agreement on value/draft compensation.

Yea, I tried to wrap in the issue of Pels clearing future cap to give Kessler his new contract extension. If they did a Missi for Kessler swap, I guess it could be worth it to play it out with the better rim-protection fit and cross the RFA bridge next offseason. But that would kill all leverage in a needed cap-clearing trade (Murray) if teams know that Pels have to trade some big salary to pay Kessler his next deal.

There is no waiting period or time restriction for trading for and immediately extending a rookie contract like Kessler, so long as it’s done before the season starts. NO could trade for Kessler and immediately extending a rookie his rookie contract up until the opening of the season.

[Texas Chuck]

Where are you at on Cooper Flagg from what you have seen?

Impressed? His offensive feel has felt better than I expected. I had been feeling like he was a high floor, but lower ceiling for a 1st overall pick. But this gives me a bit more hope he can be more than I thought offensively.

[YayBasketball]

There is no waiting period or time restriction for trading for and immediately extending a rookie contract like Kessler, so long as it’s done before the season starts. NO could trade for Kessler and immediately extending a rookie his rookie contract up until the opening of the season.

Right, I learned that from you a while back. My point was- if Pels did trade for and extend Kessler immediately before the season, then they would still be projected to be way over the tax in the '26-'27 season, right? Adding about 20m is salary next season with Kessler's new deal starting around 25m/yr.

So if they acquired Kessler in a neural salary swap, say Missi for Kessler--- then they would have to find a way to cut significant salary before the start of next season, basically guaranteeing one of Zion, Murphy, Jones, Poole, or Murray must be traded before Kessler '26-'27 salary jump. Other teams would know this, so Pels would be forced to make a bad trade with other teams holding leverage knowing Pels have to dump a salary. Likely, demanding a future pick for Murray or making lowball offers for the valuable players. Unless Pels go Bucks crazy and stretch Murray's contract, but with him likely to return to playable level, that seems unlikely.

So any Walker trade and extend would be best with the salary dump occurring simultaneously and immediately (Myrray for expiring) to hold the '26-'27 salary slot for Kessler's new deal. Or- the idea of trading for Kessler past the season start extension deadline, hopefully with a wink wink deal in place for '26 offeason new contract-- then Pels could still find a way to clear the salary while not giving up all their leverage.

[oldncreaky]

Where are you at on Cooper Flagg from what you have seen?

Impressed? His offensive feel has felt better than I expected. I had been feeling like he was a high floor, but lower ceiling for a 1st overall pick. But this gives me a bit more hope he can be more than I thought offensively.

I had a higher opinion of Flagg than you did, noting that he was 1 of 4 true freshmen (KD, AD, Zion, Flagg) to win the NCAA Player of the Year award -- and my opinion is rising as Cooper demonstrates why he deserved all the NCAA accolades.

With the usual caveat that promising careers can be derailed by injuries (knock on wood), I've got his floor as a handful of all-star awards, and a ceiling somewhere in the KD-AD range. And he's still 18! Mavs fans should be thrilled.

[ReggiesKnicks]

Where are you at on Cooper Flagg from what you have seen?

Impressed? His offensive feel has felt better than I expected. I had been feeling like he was a high floor, but lower ceiling for a 1st overall pick. But this gives me a bit more hope he can be more than I thought offensively.

I had a higher opinion of Flagg than you did, noting that he was 1 of 4 true freshmen (KD, AD, Zion, Flagg) to win the NCAA Player of the Year award -- and my opinion is rising as Cooper demonstrates why he deserved all the NCAA accolades.

With the usual caveat that promising careers can be derailed by injuries (knock on wood), I've got his floor as a handful of all-star awards, and a ceiling somewhere in the KD-AD range. And he's still 18! Mavs fans should be thrilled.

The crazy part is his age.

Anthony Davis turned 20 during March of his rookie season.

KD is the closest age wise as he was 19 during his entire rookie season, Zion was 2.5 months older than KD during their rookie seasons.

Flagg won't be turning 19 until Christmas time.

[HadAnEffectHere]

The Pelicans just traded a potential top 4 pick for a center.

None of the Pelicans' moves make sense, but you're basically just trying to argue about what direction Weaver's bizarre team building strategy takes.

And Weaver's strategy is pretty clearly "swing for stars literally every time no matter how bad the fit is." Missi is a potential star and Kessler is not so Weaver won't make that trade even though Kessler is better and a better fit.

Fears and Queen are quite literally the worst possible fits with Zion, Herb Jones, and Missi, but Weaver doesn't care as they have star potential.

Interesting take with some fair points. Yet many are saying Queen may be more of a '4' than a Center, and he played alongside a traditional 5 big most of the time at Maryland. Is Missi really a potential star? That's a fresh take. The idea would be, they took their star upside gamble on Zion, Trey, Poole, Fears and Queen-- and Kessler would be a steadying defensive pillar alongside Herb to let the stars shine.

Queen is trapped between the 4 and the 5, but is a worse 4 than a 5. Queen can't guard the perimeter at all and can't shoot from distance at all.

[babyjax13]

The GM survey was really interesting. I was thinking about the trading of partial salaries with two examples

1 - Giannis
How much more could Milwaukee get by paying most of Giannis' salary? Would trading partial salaries completely break the competitive balance of the league? Take OKC, they own, right now, about 11 future firsts that are tradeable. Most will convey. Say Milwaukee offers to reduce Giannis' salary to match Jalen Williams' current salary (his rookie scale). Could they extract more value than they could otherwise? Say, Jalen Williams and all 11 firsts? What would it do for the competitive balance of the league for OKC to have Giannis at say, 10 million per year.

2 - Lauri
The issue with Lauri is his current salary. If Utah were willing to pay 15 million of what he makes per year, how much does that increase the market?

I think there would need to be rules about how much salary you could reserve, and how many times you could do it.