Who Would You Rather Have: Jalen Duren Or Alperen Sengun?

[GregOden]

Surprised to find out that both these guys are just 6'9

Probably why Detroit tried to trot out James Wiseman at C for a while next to Jalen before realizing size doesn't equal effectiveness in the NBA

[SpreeS]

Duren is legit. He is by far the best center in the EAST at the moment (KAT, Adebayo, Mobley, Embiid).

[HMFFL]

Everybody giving Jalen Duran praise makes me happy.
I have been screaming this man's name for awhile and saying the Pistons need to think about him more on offense. He will make some magic happen with Cade.

[tmorgan]

Surprised to find out that both these guys are just 6'9

Probably why Detroit tried to trot out James Wiseman at C for a while next to Jalen before realizing size doesn't equal effectiveness in the NBA

Wingspan, strength and instincts matter more than height anyway. Stewart is barely 6’8”, if that, and he’s a mediocre vert guy, too. Still a way better defensive presence than Duren or a bunch of seven footers in the league right now.

Wiseman… ugh, man. He could be eight feet tall and quick as a cat, but when you’re always in the wrong place, it makes little difference.

[Sane]

Cade is a much better two way player than Sengun.

Sengun had a better supporting cast and coach last year, that Detroit roster was a dumpster fire.

Totally disagree but that's irrelevant. The point is Sengun is his team's Cade. He is the offensive hub that carries everything. He's also (for over 2 years now) the starting C and rim protector of a western contender top 10 in defense. Duren is not in that conversation.

Subjective. Pistons are good because of their defensive identity, not because of Cade’s offence. He’s one of the least efficient players in the league with volume and their offence is mid at best. I don’t want to discredit Cade but I think people put way too much credit on Cade. They’re great because they’re a top 5 defence and Duren plays a big role in that, that can’t get lost in this.

Not subjective at all. Defense is Rockets identity too. Sengun just brings points as well. In basketball there's only offense and defense.

Sengun is a bigger part of Houston's offense. He's not just better than Duren, he's clearly one or two tiers higher. We're talking about a guy who's putting up 23 points from post, midrange, drives, 3pt land and 8 assists to boot. It's another universe bro.

He's just as important to the defense as Duren. In fact they're in identical situations: a top 6 defense, their backup C is a better rim protector than them and there's a Thompson twin helping them out at all times. I'll repeat: Sengun is about to have his 3rd straight season as the starting C of a top 10 defense i.e. a championship calibre defense. Duren definitely has a more promising defensive FUTURE, but at PRESENT he's not anywhere near as accomplished as Sengun.

So if he's a roughly equivalent defender and Sengun is a far better offensive player, it's not even a debate. I think the better argument for you is for the future since Duren is younger (I think) and his defensive potential is still untapped. If he becomes a DPOY type player later, then yes on the overall he will be able to compete with Sengun.

[JackTalkThai]

People are placing way too much weight on assists in this center comp. Jokic, Sengun is not. Duren is clearly the better scorer and the more efficient scorer. If Duren had a lesser team and was relied on to play as many minutes and take as many shots as Sengun, his numbers would be better virtually across the board besides assists and 3PM. Per 36, the edge goes to Duren.

Both players are amazing but give me the more rare NBA commodity, give me young Dwight Howard, ie. Jalen Duren.

[Mr Peanut]

At this stage of their respective careers both of them have ended up far better than what I expected when this thread was made. Sengun is the better player right now but I think Duren is the best fit for this current Detroit team. His two man game with Cade is elite and he embodies what Detroit basketball is about. I think both fanbases should be very happy with what they got out of the 16th and 13th picks in their respective drafts.

[hardenASG13]

Totally disagree but that's irrelevant. The point is Sengun is his team's Cade. He is the offensive hub that carries everything. He's also (for over 2 years now) the starting C and rim protector of a western contender top 10 in defense. Duren is not in that conversation.

Subjective. Pistons are good because of their defensive identity, not because of Cade’s offence. He’s one of the least efficient players in the league with volume and their offence is mid at best. I don’t want to discredit Cade but I think people put way too much credit on Cade. They’re great because they’re a top 5 defence and Duren plays a big role in that, that can’t get lost in this.

Not subjective at all. Defense is Rockets identity too. Sengun just brings points as well. In basketball there's only offense and defense.

Sengun is a bigger part of Houston's offense. He's not just better than Duren, he's clearly one or two tiers higher. We're talking about a guy who's putting up 23 points from post, midrange, drives, 3pt land and 8 assists to boot. It's another universe bro.

He's just as important to the defense as Duren. In fact they're in identical situations: a top 6 defense, their backup C is a better rim protector than them and there's a Thompson twin helping them out at all times. I'll repeat: Sengun is about to have his 3rd straight season as the starting C of a top 10 defense i.e. a championship calibre defense. Duren definitely has a more promising defensive FUTURE, but at PRESENT he's not anywhere near as accomplished as Sengun.

So if he's a roughly equivalent defender and Sengun is a far better offensive player, it's not even a debate. I think the better argument for you is for the future since Duren is younger (I think) and his defensive potential is still untapped. If he becomes a DPOY type player later, then yes on the overall he will be able to compete with Sengun.

Im not sure about it being a different universe on offense. Duren is averaging 20.6 to Senguns 23ppg. But sengun plays 7 minutes more a game due to Duren struggling with foul issues earlier in the season. Duren averages more points per 36. Yes Sengun gets more assists, partially as a result of his team not having a true pg, as opposed to Duren having Cade. Why does that matter so much to say they're in a different universe? Duren averages more rebounds, including offensive rebounds, in the 7 less minutes per game. Duren is also shooting a ridiculous 67% from the field and 77% from the line. His off the dribble game has improved alot, and he attacks alot on drives from the midpost/top of the key, too. This isn't to say Sengun is bad, but its not some sizable gap between the two offensively.

[Sane]

Subjective. Pistons are good because of their defensive identity, not because of Cade’s offence. He’s one of the least efficient players in the league with volume and their offence is mid at best. I don’t want to discredit Cade but I think people put way too much credit on Cade. They’re great because they’re a top 5 defence and Duren plays a big role in that, that can’t get lost in this.

Not subjective at all. Defense is Rockets identity too. Sengun just brings points as well. In basketball there's only offense and defense.

Sengun is a bigger part of Houston's offense. He's not just better than Duren, he's clearly one or two tiers higher. We're talking about a guy who's putting up 23 points from post, midrange, drives, 3pt land and 8 assists to boot. It's another universe bro.

He's just as important to the defense as Duren. In fact they're in identical situations: a top 6 defense, their backup C is a better rim protector than them and there's a Thompson twin helping them out at all times. I'll repeat: Sengun is about to have his 3rd straight season as the starting C of a top 10 defense i.e. a championship calibre defense. Duren definitely has a more promising defensive FUTURE, but at PRESENT he's not anywhere near as accomplished as Sengun.

So if he's a roughly equivalent defender and Sengun is a far better offensive player, it's not even a debate. I think the better argument for you is for the future since Duren is younger (I think) and his defensive potential is still untapped. If he becomes a DPOY type player later, then yes on the overall he will be able to compete with Sengun.

Im not sure about it being a different universe on offense. Duren is averaging 20.6 to Senguns 23ppg. But sengun plays 7 minutes more a game due to Duren struggling with foul issues earlier in the season. Duren averages more points per 36. Yes Sengun gets more assists, partially as a result of his team not having a true pg, as opposed to Duren having Cade. Why does that matter so much to say they're in a different universe? Duren averages more rebounds, including offensive rebounds, in the 7 less minutes per game. Duren is also shooting a ridiculous 67% from the field and 77% from the line. His off the dribble game has improved alot, and he attacks alot on drives from the midpost/top of the key, too. This isn't to say Sengun is bad, but its not some sizable gap between the two offensively.

Don't want to go in circles. I've listed out all the things that Sengun does better including 3pt shooting, assists and driving ability. Like how are we having a genuine conversation when you're leaving 8 assists out of the conversation?

Clearly the guy averaging over 20ppg since last season and averaging 23 points and 8 assists is better than Jalen Duren. Way better. The 5+ assist differential is 10-15 points generated. I can't take you seriously if you can't see that, I'm really sorry.

[sashaturiaf]

The fact this topic has gone 17 pages shows how low b-ball IQ people here are

Sengun is baby Jokic. Duren is a physically gifted guy who plays a bit of basketballs. They aren't close to being the same

[HumbleRen]

Totally disagree but that's irrelevant. The point is Sengun is his team's Cade. He is the offensive hub that carries everything. He's also (for over 2 years now) the starting C and rim protector of a western contender top 10 in defense. Duren is not in that conversation.

Subjective. Pistons are good because of their defensive identity, not because of Cade’s offence. He’s one of the least efficient players in the league with volume and their offence is mid at best. I don’t want to discredit Cade but I think people put way too much credit on Cade. They’re great because they’re a top 5 defence and Duren plays a big role in that, that can’t get lost in this.

Not subjective at all. Defense is Rockets identity too. Sengun just brings points as well. In basketball there's only offense and defense.

Sengun is a bigger part of Houston's offense. He's not just better than Duren, he's clearly one or two tiers higher. We're talking about a guy who's putting up 23 points from post, midrange, drives, 3pt land and 8 assists to boot. It's another universe bro.

He's just as important to the defense as Duren. In fact they're in identical situations: a top 6 defense, their backup C is a better rim protector than them and there's a Thompson twin helping them out at all times. I'll repeat: Sengun is about to have his 3rd straight season as the starting C of a top 10 defense i.e. a championship calibre defense. Duren definitely has a more promising defensive FUTURE, but at PRESENT he's not anywhere near as accomplished as Sengun.

So if he's a roughly equivalent defender and Sengun is a far better offensive player, it's not even a debate. I think the better argument for you is for the future since Duren is younger (I think) and his defensive potential is still untapped. If he becomes a DPOY type player later, then yes on the overall he will be able to compete with Sengun.

I don’t know man. Think about how amazing Jokic is on offence to make it work. I just don’t like that comparison.

Sengun is so far from that in terms of touch and finishing. I’d be way more comfortable having Duren as my 2nd best player on a contender than having Sengun as my best player in the future.

Sengun is one of the least efficient volume scoring bigs that we’ve seen in the modern NBA. I gotta see him improve in that department. He’s a fantastic player, don’t get me wrong though.

At their peaks, I can see Sengun being a legit 25/10/7 guy on like 60% TS. I can see Duren being a 24/13/3 all defensive big on like 70+ TS%. Just depends on your roster building philosophies.

[The Master]

Don't want to go in circles. I've listed out all the things that Sengun does better including 3pt shooting, assists and driving ability. Like how are we having a genuine conversation when you're leaving 8 assists out of the conversation?

Clearly the guy averaging over 20ppg since last season and averaging 23 points and 8 assists is better than Jalen Duren. Way better. The 5+ assist differential is 10-15 points generated. I can't take you seriously if you can't see that, I'm really sorry.

First of all, Sengun is a main creator and top2 scorer on the best offense in the league at the beginning of the season, Duren is a fantastic finisher, but he doesn't provide spacing nor playmaking. Sengun was also a better rim protector throughout their respective careers, although so far their splits are similar.

Duren is great, but I don't think it's close at this point.

I’d be way more comfortable having Duren as my 2nd best player on a contender than having Sengun as my best player in the future.

Sengun is already the best player on a strong contender. He's 23.

[HumbleRen]

Don't want to go in circles. I've listed out all the things that Sengun does better including 3pt shooting, assists and driving ability. Like how are we having a genuine conversation when you're leaving 8 assists out of the conversation?

Clearly the guy averaging over 20ppg since last season and averaging 23 points and 8 assists is better than Jalen Duren. Way better. The 5+ assist differential is 10-15 points generated. I can't take you seriously if you can't see that, I'm really sorry.

First of all, Sengun is a main creator and top2 scorer on the best offense in the league at the beginning of the season, Duren is a fantastic finisher, but he doesn't provide spacing nor playmaking. Sengun was also a better rim protector throughout their respective careers, although so far their splits are similar.

Duren is great, but I don't think it's close at this point.

I’d be way more comfortable having Duren as my 2nd best player on a contender than having Sengun as my best player in the future.

Sengun is already the best player on a strong contender. He's 23.

Duren does provide spacing, vertical spacing.

Best player is subjective, Sengun hasn’t shown me anything to prove that. Put up one of the least efficient showings from a center in the playoffs last year. Am I supposed to vault him over KD just because a 37 year old KD isn’t going balls to the wall in the regular season? Fat chance.

[HumbleRen]

People keep saying saying Baby Jokic while completely forgetting one of the largest reasons that Jokic is this good is because he’s one of most hyper efficient scoring bigs that we’ve ever seen in nba history.

Sengun can’t even get to league average TS despite shooting 40% from the 3 right now. Don’t tell me he’s baby Jokic. He’s not. The worst version of Jokic would never be inefficient beside a player of KD’s scoring gravity. Not even Sabonis would.

Let’s stop acting like Sengun is some scoring savant.

[hardenASG13]

Not subjective at all. Defense is Rockets identity too. Sengun just brings points as well. In basketball there's only offense and defense.

Sengun is a bigger part of Houston's offense. He's not just better than Duren, he's clearly one or two tiers higher. We're talking about a guy who's putting up 23 points from post, midrange, drives, 3pt land and 8 assists to boot. It's another universe bro.

He's just as important to the defense as Duren. In fact they're in identical situations: a top 6 defense, their backup C is a better rim protector than them and there's a Thompson twin helping them out at all times. I'll repeat: Sengun is about to have his 3rd straight season as the starting C of a top 10 defense i.e. a championship calibre defense. Duren definitely has a more promising defensive FUTURE, but at PRESENT he's not anywhere near as accomplished as Sengun.

So if he's a roughly equivalent defender and Sengun is a far better offensive player, it's not even a debate. I think the better argument for you is for the future since Duren is younger (I think) and his defensive potential is still untapped. If he becomes a DPOY type player later, then yes on the overall he will be able to compete with Sengun.

Im not sure about it being a different universe on offense. Duren is averaging 20.6 to Senguns 23ppg. But sengun plays 7 minutes more a game due to Duren struggling with foul issues earlier in the season. Duren averages more points per 36. Yes Sengun gets more assists, partially as a result of his team not having a true pg, as opposed to Duren having Cade. Why does that matter so much to say they're in a different universe? Duren averages more rebounds, including offensive rebounds, in the 7 less minutes per game. Duren is also shooting a ridiculous 67% from the field and 77% from the line. His off the dribble game has improved alot, and he attacks alot on drives from the midpost/top of the key, too. This isn't to say Sengun is bad, but its not some sizable gap between the two offensively.

Don't want to go in circles. I've listed out all the things that Sengun does better including 3pt shooting, assists and driving ability. Like how are we having a genuine conversation when you're leaving 8 assists out of the conversation?

Clearly the guy averaging over 20ppg since last season and averaging 23 points and 8 assists is better than Jalen Duren. Way better. The 5+ assist differential is 10-15 points generated. I can't take you seriously if you can't see that, I'm really sorry.

Senguns team uses him more as passing/handoff hub (from what ive seen), yes. That makes him way better? I can see he gets more assists than Duren. Durens guards are responsible for more assists on his team. Detroit averages more assists per game than Houston. There's value to generating the plays for your team, sure. Im just not sure having your center lead the team in assists is a good thing for an offense, especially in the playoffs. Or that it makes Sengun way better than Jalen Duren. I've admittedly watched much more Duren than Sengun this year, I'll have to check out a few rockets games. I think youre underselling how good Duren is though, hes not just posting up on the block.

[HumbleRen]

Duren.

I just don't trust a team with Sengun at the 5. His talent is fascinating but I think there's a hard cap on any team that he's on, similar to Sabonis.

I would like to issue an apology to Sengun. He’s much better than Sabonis. He’s still too inefficient for a center for my taste though but he’s been a stud. I never pictured him playing with KD when I made that post.

Still comfortable with my choice though, Duren is a superhuman haha.

I still don't see a team with Sengun at the 5 wins a championship. Has a prototype (not-Jokic) such as Sengun ever manned the 5 for a championship team?

I think he can be a 5 on a championship team. You’d just need an enforcer at the 5 on the roster, which Steven Adams is.

[The Master]

Best player is subjective, Sengun hasn’t shown me anything to prove that. Put up one of the least efficient showings from a center in the playoffs last year. Am I supposed to vault him over KD just because a 37 year old KD isn’t going balls to the wall in the regular season? Fat chance.

Sengun is both the best player on the Rockets in terms of boxscore production (6.3 BPM vs 2.1 BPM of KD) and on/off numbers (+11.2 ON/OFF vs 1.9 ON/OFF of KD). It's still a small sample size, but so is Duren's rise, so it's not an argument in this specific discussion. We have to wait if his shooting splits are sustainable, but so far Rockets are super elite and Sengun is an anchor of their offense (1st in the league).

Also, Sengun, if he had developed his outside shot like his early numbers suggest, would've been a Pau-esque second option with his skillset. One of the reasons why Rockets are legit very early on is that he can be both a complementary piece on offense and a 1A option as a playmaker.

So I'd be definitely less 'decisive' in this 'not a 1st option for a contender' or 'the better 2nd option'.

[bstein14]

The first few games of the season Duren was in foul trouble and got a quick ejection vs the Rockets, but if you look at his November games (Pistons are undefeated in November) he's at.

32.9 MPG
24.3 PPG on 71.6 FG%
13.1 RPG
2.3 APG
Pistons are 2nd best defense in the league behind only OKC

Pistons have 5 more games in November, but Duren is shaping up to be the Eastern Conference Player of the Month in November if the team keeps winning and he keeps putting up close to a super efficient 24 and 13 like he has been so far this month.


Sengun has not been as good in November as Duren has, and a big part of that is just how efficient Duren is at putting the ball in the basket.

[HumbleRen]

Best player is subjective, Sengun hasn’t shown me anything to prove that. Put up one of the least efficient showings from a center in the playoffs last year. Am I supposed to vault him over KD just because a 37 year old KD isn’t going balls to the wall in the regular season? Fat chance.

Sengun is both the best player on the Rockets in terms of boxscore production (6.3 BPM vs 2.1 BPM of KD) and on/off numbers (+11.2 ON/OFF vs 1.9 ON/OFF of KD). It's still a small sample size, but so is Duren's rise, so it's not an argument in this specific discussion. We have to wait if his shooting splits are sustainable, but so far Rockets are super elite and Sengun is an anchor of their offense (1st in the league).

Also, Sengun, if he had developed his outside shot like his early numbers suggest, would've been a Pau-esque second option with his skillset. One of the reasons why Rockets are legit very early on is that he can be both a complementary piece on offense and a 1A option as a playmaker.

So I'd be definitely less 'decisive' in this 'not a 1st option for a contender' or 'the better 2nd option'.

Think we gotta see it play out in the playoffs.

Duren has a 5.3 BPM right now, I’d never say he’s better than KD right now because of that.

KD is better than both of them to me until proven otherwise in the playoffs.

[FrodoBaggins]

People keep saying saying Baby Jokic while completely forgetting one of the largest reasons that Jokic is this good is because he’s one of most hyper efficient scoring bigs that we’ve ever seen in nba history.

Sengun can’t even get to league average TS despite shooting 40% from the 3 right now. Don’t tell me he’s baby Jokic. He’s not. The worst version of Jokic would never be inefficient beside a player of KD’s scoring gravity. Not even Sabonis would.

Let’s stop acting like Sengun is some scoring savant.

He's more like a Webber/Pau hybrid.