Rebuilding the Spurs

[imagump1313]

You dont really need a SF to be a big scorer with this roster. Castle is a scorer, Wemby is a scorer, Barnes is a scorer, Fox is a scorer, Harper is a scorer, Johnson is somewhat of a scorer. You need someone who can move the ball around and involve Wemby who can rebound and play defense. Bryant can do all of that. Johnson can as well. Champaigne is just a chucker who gets lit up every night defensively and turns the ball over like a maniac.

Not true. Wemby and Fox are the only reliable scorers on the roster. Everyone else is game to game.

Champagnie is no better or worse than Vassell at 10% of the cost and he will stay faithful to that role.

Vassell will get "main character syndrome" at least a couple of times a game where he thinks the team is built around him. Julian has no such misconceptions and therefore makes less errors.

We can agree to disagree about that. I'd rather have Vassell than Champaigne any day of the week.

[Ballings7]

And, Champegnie of course is not the answer as a starting/finishing SF, but in the short-term he is a better gap filler until probably Carter Bryant is ready, or someone else perhaps.

And this I think is at the heart of the problem, when your $27m dollar guy can not even perform at the level of a standard MLE 3&D guy, you have a problem. Julian is the best option now and I would play Bryant heavy minutes in the G-League to see if his shot comes around as that is the key failing of the Spurs at the moment. Even more than the lack of a starting calibre PF where Barnes/Sochan and platoon effectively until something better comes along.

And I am starting to agree with GREY. Lets bring something in this trade deadline to see if it can improve the team. If not, we do it in the off-season.

Yeah, I think the Spurs will be looking actively to improve the team, SF being primary issue.

[Rustyman]

We can agree to disagree about that. I'd rather have Vassell than Champaigne any day of the week.

Embrace the Champagne!!! You know it is good for you!

[Rustyman]

I think what the last couple of Spurs wins without Wemby and Castle has proved is that the Spurs are probably a 35-38 win team without those two.

With Wemby and Castle, I predicted that the Spurs would win 50 games this year.

Assuming that both Wemby and Castle are back within the next 2-4 weeks, what does this board think the next Spurs personnel move should be?

For me it is Vassell for a 3&D player, whether it be for a high-end player like Trey Murphy III where we probably have to attach a couple of firsts or whether it simply be a MLE level player + a young big. I would prefer this move happen earlier than later but what do others think.

[G R E Y]

I think what the last couple of Spurs wins without Wemby and Castle has proved is that the Spurs are probably a 35-38 win team without those two.

With Wemby and Castle, I predicted that the Spurs would win 50 games this year.

Assuming that both Wemby and Castle are back within the next 2-4 weeks, what does this board think the next Spurs personnel move should be?

For me it is Vassell for a 3&D player, whether it be for a high-end player like Trey Murphy III where we LEprobably have to attach a couple of firsts or whether it simply be a MLE level player + a young big. I would prefer this move happen earlier than later but what do others think.

Yeah Vassell came into the league as a defensive stalwart. Then in whichever year it was that a contract was looming he came to camp focused much more on scoring and in 2023/24he averaged 19.5/3.8/4.1. The points and assists stand as career highs and the rebounds have remained within that range.

In yesterday's game, and several others before it this season, we created some Vassell shots and got clanks early. Some games he stubbornly keeps taking 3s regardless of efficiency, others he drives very well and finishes through tough contests. Lately he's been making turning point level defensive impact, like clutch plays late in games and these have been huge for us. This is his identity and wheelhouse which he'd gotten away from to try and become more of a scorer. You want a guy to grow his game and can't blame him for focusing more on O in a contract year. But it feels like an imbalance occurred in our lean years when he was the default go to guy. Keldon has made the adjustments and accepted an important niche role, as has Sochan. Both their games are so important for us.

Devin though still gets prime option syndrome as some residual carry over from the lean years and though these were growing pains as guys tried to figure out scoring at the NBA level, it just feels like we're still stuck in growing pains rather than accepting, like Keldon and Sochan have, a specific role.

Even his own teammates looked off him late last night on O. In the last 3 minutes during our 11-0 run, he did not put up a shot. Defended well as he did all game, grabbed a board, dished an assist, perfect complementary role contributing to winning .

Trouble is consistency and confidence. He doesn't like contact on drives and so we do not get them consistently. The most he has averaged is 3FTAs a game, in that 2023/24 season.

His shot profile this season is about 43%/57% 2s and 3s, and of those 2s, he takes the most from 10-16', a habit he's shown his entire career except for 2023/24 when most of his 2s were from 0-3'. And that's fine I guess as a different type of threat and look defenses have to cover. It's just he's making the 10-16' shots at 48.3% (actually second highest of his career), but making 3s at just 34.7%, tied with his rookie year for lowest. Of course the highest efficiency is at the rim.

All of which is to say that in increased minutes, he's taking 1.7FGAs fewer than last season (3 fewer than in 2023/24), at worse efficiency in the shots he takes the most. I'd look up clutch efficiency but that would be an unnecessary cruelty.

I don't know if he is trying so hard to stand out on O given the pressure of his contact, but he's just not the second or even third option type (though sometimes he can be). Making smart clutch defensive plays helps his stock and takes pressure off needing to make O plays.

I'd love to pry Murphy III from the Pels but even they know what they have in him. 6"8', 25, 19.7, 6.8, 3.1 on 37.7 % from 3, gets to the FT line well, makes over 93% there, great defender, on a smaller contract than Vassell's. They've made some questionable trades but unless they value unprotected picks, and not ours but those we have from other teams, Murphy III is exactly the kind of player you keep.

Carter will hopefully become what we need at 3, but in the meantime the wheelhouse is TMIII or Avdija types. I like Santi's game, too.

Packaging Devin with whichever reasonable assets for a steady 3&D at 3 upgrade is the move now. We can't have an inefficient 13ppg at $27M 3rd/4th option who forces a 2nd / 3rd option role (he's 3rd this season with 12.2FGAs behind Wemby and Fox). Getting Fox was an acknowledgement that Vassell isn't the 2nd option to Wemby we thought he'd be. And that's ok. But paying more for less isn't. Even with better D this season, it's hard to have the O we're getting from an out of position at 3 player. (Then again, he way over dribbles and takes too long making decisions as a 2, so... ). More downhill drives, more elbow makes, no end of Q heaves, stellar clutch D. That's a better profile for him. He's still the likeliest trade candidate, but in the meantime we really need him to break some bad habits, for us and for him.

[Rustyman]

Combining Devin with whichever reasonable assets for a steady 3&D at 3 upgrade is the move now. We can't have an inefficient 13ppg at $27M 3rd/4th option who forces a 2nd / 3rd option role (he's 3rd this season with 12.2FGAs behind Wemby and Fox). Getting Fox was an acknowledgement that Vassell isn't the 2nd option to Wemby we thought he'd be. And that's ok. But paying more for less isn't. Even with better D this season, it's hard to have the O we're getting from an out of position at 3 player. (Then again, he way over dribbles and takes too long making decisions as a 2, so... ). More downhill drives, more elbow makes, no end of Q heaves, stellar clutch D. That's a better profile for him. He's still the likeliest trade candidate, but in the meantime we really need him to break some bad habits, for us and for him.

And this is at the heart of my argument. It is nothing against Devin, it is simply that he does not offer what the Spurs need at this stage and he is way overpaid for his production.

[imagump1313]

I think what the last couple of Spurs wins without Wemby and Castle has proved is that the Spurs are probably a 35-38 win team without those two.

With Wemby and Castle, I predicted that the Spurs would win 50 games this year.

Assuming that both Wemby and Castle are back within the next 2-4 weeks, what does this board think the next Spurs personnel move should be?

For me it is Vassell for a 3&D player, whether it be for a high-end player like Trey Murphy III where we probably have to attach a couple of firsts or whether it simply be a MLE level player + a young big. I would prefer this move happen earlier than later but what do others think.

WOAH! Hold on cowboy! We beat two of the worst teams in the league and should have lost one of those.

Good question about what to do next though. There isn't much available to get in a trade without unbelievably overpaying at this time. Anyone worthwhile that could make us better is going to come with the other team asking for high draft picks.

Maybe if Boston keeps tanking we could trick them into thinking Vassell is a younger version of Derrick White and get him back? Throw in Champaigne and a future pick. This would make me smile. Can you imagine how much better we would be with White playing instead of Vassell? OMG.

I think the bigger flaw is not the roster, but the coaching. Vassell is really valuable to us if he is used properly. I dont hate him. I was one of his biggest fans 2-3 years ago. The problem is he thinks he is the man and no one on the staff reigns that in. As we have talked about here a couple times, He would better serve us coming off the bench. We also have a few guys here who aren't accountable and have never been held accountable(looks at Champaigne) for making horrible decisions, playing terrible defense and turning the ball over like crazy. We could fix that overnight if someone on the staff would actually coach instead of high five everyone who does something stupid. I'm not saying fire Johnson already(even though I said at the time that was a gigantic mistake) but we need a different approach than what we are doing now IMO.

[G R E Y]

Hmm, I don't know, gump. Like we've tried Vassell as the bench 6th man, we've tried him as starting 2, as lead guard, as primary scorer, as secondary scorer, now at the 3.

He's just the same guy. His stats have largely plateaued or gotten worse.

He shows that the D IQ is there and when the effort is there he is impactful.

But like this goes beyond coaching and into contract reality and that whole thing of perception. We projected him to be improving from that 19.5ppg season. He was improving until then. But he has dropped off since, never reaching it again.

Seems end of last game when he didn't shoot it once in the last 3 minutes - and Keldon looked off him and chose to pass to Barnes - teammates sorted it out.

We already got Fox as an admission that Vassell is not that guy. Now we should have a $27M guy coming off the bench which sends a he's not even a starter guy?

That's problematic for a variety of reasons. Like having Fox in addition to Wemby was supposed to make things easier for Vassell. Instead he's... Well the same guy with the same shot profile, just more inefficient somehow.

Champie is definitely not a starter but good in his more limited role. He is good value for his contract. Dumb mistakes and all. Champie by the way averages 1.3TOs per game and DV is pretty clean at 1.1. These aren't game breakers (unless of course the one TO is at the worst most crucial anti clutch time of the game. Well then it goes back to who has IT under pressure and who **** the bed).

However unwarranted, perception and expectation are tied in part to contract and draft position to a lesser extent.

Area 51 combines for 7.6 TOs a game this season. Now *that's* bad. Is anyone going to chew them out? Like someone should, but then again Wemby is in the midst of altering his game significantly, or at least adding to it and has to learn how to best post up cleanly.

Not sure wtf Castle and his team high 4TOs/game is about besides **** hard hands.

Anyway, I'm resigned to accepting that Vassell is who he is as a player at this point. Nothing in his stats shows any different whether Pop was chewing him out, whether Mitch does or doesn't do it, whether he's the main go to guy or not or whether he has guys around him who should make his game easier.

They're both 'they are who they are' at this point but headed in opposite directions.

Vassell happens to have a contract that can get more costly value back. It is what it is. I like him as a person, drama free guy, just, we need to level up, and if we know what we are getting already and it's not what we need it to be, there's no sense in lowering expectations or in staying put. We need upgrades and we have a glut of guards.

[imagump1313]

Hmm, I don't know, gump. Like we've tried Vassell as the bench 6th man, we've tried him as starting 2, as lead guard, as primary scorer, as secondary scorer, now at the 3.

He's just the same guy. His stats have largely plateaued or gotten worse.

He shows that the D IQ is there and when the effort is there he is impactful.

But like this goes beyond coaching and into contract reality and that whole thing of perception. We projected him to be improving from that 19.5ppg season. He was improving until then. But he has dropped off since, never reaching it again.

Seems end of last game when he didn't shoot it once in the last 3 minutes - and Keldon looked off him and chose to pass to Barnes - teammates sorted it out.

We already got Fox as an admission that Vassell is not that guy. Now we should have a $27M guy coming off the bench which sends a he's not even a starter guy?

That's problematic for a variety of reasons. Like having Fox in addition to Wemby was supposed to make things easier for Vassell. Instead he's... Well the same guy with the same shot profile, just more inefficient somehow.

Champie is definitely not a starter but good in his more limited role. He is good value for his contract. Dumb mistakes and all. Champie by the way averages 1.3TOs per game and DV is pretty clean at 1.1. These aren't game breakers (unless of course the one TO is at the worst most crucial anti clutch time of the game. Well then it goes back to who has IT under pressure and who **** the bed).

However unwarranted, perception and expectation are tied in part to contract and draft position to a lesser extent.

Area 51 combines for 7.6 TOs a game this season. Now *that's* bad. Is anyone going to chew them out? Like someone should, but then again Wemby is in the midst of altering his game significantly, or at least adding to it and has to learn how to best post up cleanly.

Not sure wtf Castle and his team high 4TOs/game is about besides **** hard hands.

Anyway, I'm resigned to accepting that Vassell is who he is as a player at this point. Nothing in his stats shows any different whether Pop was chewing him out, whether Mitch does or doesn't do it, whether he's the main go to guy or not or whether he has guys around him who should make his game easier.

They're both 'they are who they are' at this point but headed in opposite directions.

Vassell happens to have a contract that can get more costly value back. It is what it is. I like him as a person, drama free guy, just, we need to level up, and if we know what we are getting already and it's not what we need it to be, there's no sense in lowering expectations or in staying put. We need upgrades and we have a glut of guards.

Well, we are kind of stuck with him at the moment. I just suggest putting him in a position where he can still chuck up contested shots but hurt us the least. That would be bench minutes when we need scoring without Wemby on the floor. Also keeping him as far away from the floor as possible in crunch time. He still has some value.

[G R E Y]

Hmm, I don't know, gump. Like we've tried Vassell as the bench 6th man, we've tried him as starting 2, as lead guard, as primary scorer, as secondary scorer, now at the 3.

He's just the same guy. His stats have largely plateaued or gotten worse.

He shows that the D IQ is there and when the effort is there he is impactful.

But like this goes beyond coaching and into contract reality and that whole thing of perception. We projected him to be improving from that 19.5ppg season. He was improving until then. But he has dropped off since, never reaching it again.

Seems end of last game when he didn't shoot it once in the last 3 minutes - and Keldon looked off him and chose to pass to Barnes - teammates sorted it out.

We already got Fox as an admission that Vassell is not that guy. Now we should have a $27M guy coming off the bench which sends a he's not even a starter guy?

That's problematic for a variety of reasons. Like having Fox in addition to Wemby was supposed to make things easier for Vassell. Instead he's... Well the same guy with the same shot profile, just more inefficient somehow.

Champie is definitely not a starter but good in his more limited role. He is good value for his contract. Dumb mistakes and all. Champie by the way averages 1.3TOs per game and DV is pretty clean at 1.1. These aren't game breakers (unless of course the one TO is at the worst most crucial anti clutch time of the game. Well then it goes back to who has IT under pressure and who **** the bed).

However unwarranted, perception and expectation are tied in part to contract and draft position to a lesser extent.

Area 51 combines for 7.6 TOs a game this season. Now *that's* bad. Is anyone going to chew them out? Like someone should, but then again Wemby is in the midst of altering his game significantly, or at least adding to it and has to learn how to best post up cleanly.

Not sure wtf Castle and his team high 4TOs/game is about besides **** hard hands.

Anyway, I'm resigned to accepting that Vassell is who he is as a player at this point. Nothing in his stats shows any different whether Pop was chewing him out, whether Mitch does or doesn't do it, whether he's the main go to guy or not or whether he has guys around him who should make his game easier.

They're both 'they are who they are' at this point but headed in opposite directions.

Vassell happens to have a contract that can get more costly value back. It is what it is. I like him as a person, drama free guy, just, we need to level up, and if we know what we are getting already and it's not what we need it to be, there's no sense in lowering expectations or in staying put. We need upgrades and we have a glut of guards.

Well, we are kind of stuck with him at the moment. I just suggest putting him in a position where he can still chuck up contested shots but hurt us the least. That would be bench minutes when we need scoring without Wemby on the floor. Also keeping him as far away from the floor as possible in crunch time. He still has some value.

At least as far away as possible from shooting in crunch time. He made some key D stops. But you know what'll happen now, right? This will be that *one game* his shot goes in to win and we're back to empty-the-clip square one

[Rustyman]

The Spurs simply have to accept that they made a mistake with Vassell in giving him that contract they did. The assumption was that he would improve, in reality, he did not and has probably regressed.

Not a big issue as all teams make mistakes with players, unfortunately, Vassell is holding hostage a significant part of the salary cap that could be used to improve the team or give it more flexibility.

For me, any of these players for Vassell and draft capital (where applicable) will be acceptable (2 firsts and 6 seconds being as far as I would go):
- Trey Murphy III
- Keegan Murray
- PJ Washington
- Rui Hachimora
- RJ Barrett
- Benedict Mathurin
- Bilal Coulibaly

[G R E Y]

The Spurs simply have to accept that they made a mistake with Vassell in giving him that contract they did. The assumption was that he would improve, in reality, he did not and has probably regressed.

Not a big issue as all teams make mistakes with players, unfortunately, Vassell is holding hostage a significant part of the salary cap that could be used to improve the team or give it more flexibility.

For me, any of these players for Vassell and draft capital (where applicable) will be acceptable (2 firsts and 6 seconds being as far as I would go):
- Trey Murphy III
- Keegan Murray
- PJ Washington
- Rui Hachimora
- RJ Barrett
- Benedict Mathurin
- Bilal Coulibaly

Alright so Raps fans would drive RJ to the airport. Shoots the 3 better than DV, is but an inch taller, and DV's D is leagues better.

I doubt Indy gives up Mathurin but he gives strong not as good a player as his talk about it is. He is having an incredible MIP award worthy type of season so far, but it's similar context to DV when we were in deep rebuild mode - far more room to spread his game, the go-to guy, super efficient this season, ever reliable 3, aggressive, doesn't really look to pass - a career best 2.3 per game this season is just .3 off his previous best and just .8 off his lowest as a rookie. Same height as DV, younger, same position which is problematic for us.

Hachimura has long longed for LA. Gone are his belonging troubles in Washington. He's largely been the same player statswise throughout his career, low to mid teen ppg, but on improving efficiency. Is he a long term starting solution? I think we can do better.

Murphy III I'd target, if possible. He's a clear upgrade, long term mainstay starter at 3. Excellent scorer and defender. Just have to know the cost. It's the type of player you keep.

Then again that's what I thought about Deni and Washington traded him. The cost was high but turns out the return given his play in Portland has been worth it - 25.9, 6.7, 5.2, good all around scorer, big body, defends, very high BBIQ. No idea what Washington was thinking. He was a player I really hoped we could draft but he went two slots ahead of DV. He's only making $14.3M this season on a declining salary contract! It's only a 9.3% cap hit. Crazy value.

PJ is in the Rui mode of big body, rebounder, but plateaued in terms of ppg throughout his career and this season is driving the efficiency struggle bus. Oof those numbers ... Doesn't sound like Dallas is blowing it up.

Bilal. The guy I think Washington felt so confident about they were willing to part with Deni. Not standout numbers, nevertheless, I like Bibal a lot. Although his 3s efficiency is now up to an average league level 35.1% for small forwards, his overall efficiency is poor and FTs% is below average. His rebounds and assists are on par with last season. This may not be a 'thing'. Bilal's first three seasons' stats are actually better than those of Deni's, and look how that turned out.

DV's improvement and subsequent investment and plateau didn't work out as expected. His D has made a strong, impactful return, though, so credit to him.

There may be a cautionary tale here. Projections can be a dice roll.

Right now I'd swing for Murphy III, Deni, or to a lesser extent, Bilal, though I doubt Washington bites unless we offer a ridiculous overpay. If we throw bigger assets, though, I'd rather on a surer more proven player. Which brings me back to Murphy III and Deni.

We probably pivot to someone no one is expecting, but DV is leaning more into his D and we benefit in the meantime. There could be a cautionary tale here, too.

[Rustyman]

The number of times the Spurs just flat out missed their assignments on 3-point shooters or switched badly against the Hawks was astounding.

I thought we had brought in a defensive genius and thusfar, in relation to 3-point shooting, it has been a dismal failure. Everyone knows that the way to beat the Spurs is to spam 3-pointers and aggressively double the ball handler, especially in the post. I have seen little signs of improvement in the 14 games to date. That is a coaching issue.

[Rustyman]

Right now I'd swing for Murphy III, Deni, or to a lesser extent, Bilal, though I doubt Washington bites unless we offer a ridiculous overpay. If we throw bigger assets, though, I'd rather on a surer more proven player. Which brings me back to Murphy III and Deni.

We probably pivot to someone no one is expecting, but DV is leaning more into his D and we benefit in the meantime. There could be a cautionary tale here, too.

The reason I did not include Deni in my list is because we need someone who is willing to play the role of 3rd scorer and demon defender. Deni, I don't think based on his role with the Blazers will want to go back to being a 3rd scorer and role player.

I don't want the Spurs to make the same mistake with with Deni as they made with Vassell, namely, someone who does not want to fit that 3&D role.

Also, as mentioned above, there is no immediate need to make a move now but I hope there is one by the trade deadline.

[G R E Y]

Right now I'd swing for Murphy III, Deni, or to a lesser extent, Bilal, though I doubt Washington bites unless we offer a ridiculous overpay. If we throw bigger assets, though, I'd rather on a surer more proven player. Which brings me back to Murphy III and Deni.

We probably pivot to someone no one is expecting, but DV is leaning more into his D and we benefit in the meantime. There could be a cautionary tale here, too.

The reason I did not include Deni in my list is because we need someone who is willing to play the role of 3rd scorer and demon defender. Deni, I don't think based on his role with the Blazers will want to go back to being a 3rd scorer and role player.

I don't want the Spurs to make the same mistake with with Deni as they made with Vassell, namely, someone who does not want to fit that 3&D role.

Also, as mentioned above, there is no immediate need to make a move now but I hope there is one by the trade deadline.

Quick who's the third best player on our team?

Exactly.

Who's the third best player/option on Thunder? At least they can name some viable options. Does Chet or Williams care if one or the other has a takeover night? Are they harder to play against with top talent that defenses have to cover multiple scorers for?

I watched the tail end of yesterday's Blazers/Warriors game. Deni initiated the O, drove with physicality to draw in defenders, and found the open man time and again.

He didn't over dribble, didn't hesitate to drive, deftly read the doubles, made quick decisions with the ball, and didn't hesitate to share with the hot hand.

He does everything better and quicker, is bigger, more physical at a position of need.

The reason we are beating teams by committee is exactly because we need the committee as a whole to step up. This works against low to mid tier teams, not so much versus top tier ones.

Saying 3rd option but on a better team isn't the same as a do it all on a team that has fewer options.

It's less that DV doesn't want the 3&D role and more that he is not good/efficient enough for a clear third option. Deni is. Our game would immediately flow better and would get more complicated for teams to play against.

We need a talented 3. Deni is that and more. If he is the hot hand and finishes games, great. If he facilitates the hot hand, great.

I don't think we should be pigeon holing anyone into 3&D. Deni has that as a base and his skill set would be a welcome addition. I don't think sharing the ball or the role would be a problem for him, especially on a better team. He averages 5.7 assists per game this season. That would put him third already on our team.

Fox was the #1 go to guy until he acknowledged he needed more talent next to him. I wouldn't call his play deferring so much as finding ways to fit in and is doing well. No reason Swiss Army knife Deni couldn't do the same. Just don't think we can get him now unless he asks for a trade as leverage. The time to have tried acquiring him was when Washington put him on thr trade block.

Now Washington has another up and coming F in Keyshawn George who has burst out to 16.5, 5.9, 4.7 on much improved efficiency and bigger role in his second season. Could Bilal he pried away as Deni was seeing as how they have a promising Bilal substitute?

[Rustyman]

Quick who's the third best player on our team?

Exactly.

I want Castle/Harper to be the third best player on the Spurs. Everyone knows that I was not the greatest Castle fan when he was drafted but he definitely gives me vibes of being a Kawahi like player.

If it is Harper, he can do it off the bench. If that was good enough for Manu, it should be good enough for Harper, at least for the next few years.

I don't want someone who is going to come in and think that they are there to be a primary scorer/playmaker. We need a complementary scorer and defender. With Fox/Harper/Castle (despite his current turnover problem), we have 3 high-level primary playmakers.

What we lack is consistent 3 point shooting (which tends to come at a premium cost) and another player to defend big wings outside of Sochan. If not, we might simply be best off holding on to Vassell and living with his inconsistency, especially as his defense seems to be coming around until we can find a trade which suits the Spurs.

[G R E Y]

Quick who's the third best player on our team?

Exactly.

I want Castle/Harper to be the third best player on the Spurs. Everyone knows that I was not the greatest Castle fan when he was drafted but he definitely gives me vibes of being a Kawahi like player.

If it is Harper, he can do it off the bench. If that was good enough for Manu, it should be good enough for Harper, at least for the next few years.

I don't want someone who is going to come in and think that they are there to be a primary scorer/playmaker. We need a complementary scorer and defender. With Fox/Harper/Castle (despite his current turnover problem), we have 3 high-level primary playmakers.

What we lack is consistent 3 point shooting (which tends to come at a premium cost) and another player to defend big wings outside of Sochan. If not, we might simply be best off holding on to Vassell and living with his inconsistency, especially as his defense seems to be coming around until we can find a trade which suits the Spurs.

You're not trading $27M for a role player. There's nothing about Deni's game that screams 'me first'. If anything, he's already averaging more assists per game than DV ever has.

This is where we differ. I don't think in terms of tiers to put a player in. Like if DV grew his game to where it was more dynamic (well to be fair he did expand his O game) and *consistent*, great. But he's plateaued and still plays like he hasn't, and that's the problem.

Harper is super talented but he's less than a dozen games into his into career. There's certain growing pains that only experience will teach.

Castle has made a leap this season, certainly not least by assertiveness. He started half the games last season, is on track to be a full time starter. In about 6 more minutes per game, he is actually taking slightly fewer FGAs than last season but making them at about a 7% better efficiency overall which accounts for the 3ppg more this season. He has nearly doubled his assists and steals, and increased his rebounds. Awesome.

But he has also nearly doubled his TOs, leading us with 4 per game. His 3s and FTs efficiencies have both fallen from bad to worse - 28.5%-24% and 72.4% to 69.4%, respectively. So he's figuring things out alongside a new talent in Fox. Hopefully he grows into the steady tough 2 we need. He is a plus contributor already, a two-way player, but he has to improve efficiency and ball protection as a next step. I have full confidence he will, but as with Harper, these are some growing pains.

We are 4th in overall FG% and tied at 13th with Denver and LAC at 36.6% from 3. We are 17th at 36.5 3s attempted per game. The latter two are improvements from near to or dead last of previous seasons.

But I agree we need above average 3s shooting and right now from our starters it's Barnes at 46.3% and Fox at 38.6%. It used to also include Champie and his 39.1% which really helped with our spacing given that Wemby's 3s attempts have decreased to a career low 4.4 per game (down from 8.8 last season and 5.5 as a rookie) while his efficiency is steady in the mid 30s, like DV, who is consistently at almost 7 attempts per game.

DV ranks 3rd in attempts per game at 12.1FGAs but his FG% RANKS SECOND LAST at 40.7%. That and Castle's 13th in efficiency at 49.7% while 4th in FGAs at 11.9 is what we have to work with.

So I agree we need better 3s shooting, but we need better overall efficiency from our starting 2 and 3.

I'd love a 3 with Deni's skill. It makes everyone else's game easier in part because he is a willing sharer to go along with his terrific skills.

Like the OKC example, any of Chet or Williams could have a bigger go-to guy on a lesser team. Last season, Jalen was second at 16.9FGAs and Chet 3rd at 10.7.

This season Chet is still 3rd but at 12.4FGAs, but second is now Ajay Mitchell at 12.9FGAs, way up from last season's tied for 10th at 5.1FGAs. He's increased his ppg from 6.5 as a rookie to 15.9. Whatever adjustments OKC will make when Jalen returns, are they worried about having talent that are taking more leading roles in multiple positions?

A Deni-like talent at the 3 would be an amazing addition on both ends.

DV hadn't stepped up so we got Fox, Castle has stepped up and pushed DV over in terms of who we keep going forward, but really neither of the latter two have changed significantly in terms of FGAs.

Fox has come in understanding this is Wemby's team and is still second on our team in FGAs at 17.1. It ranks 6th lowest in his nine year career, but it's only three FGAS fewer than his highest attempts per game.

All of which is to say that talent wins out. Unselfish talent like Deni's wins out all the more. There's really nothing in Deni's game to indicate he would insist on his bigger role being primary over the team.

I think he'd fit right in.

[Rustyman]

I don't know. I do not want the Spurs to be rebuilding or resetting forever.

For me, getting Deni would imply changing the dynamics of the team.

I know Castle is inefficient, however, he is productive and I can work with the inefficiency for a season or two. If he does not improve, THEN we look for alternatives, not before.

With Harper, he has shown signs however, like all rookies, his impact on winning is likely to be negligible. I want to give both him and Castle the opportunity to grow into the 3rd option as they are cost-controlled for 3 and 4 years respectively. I want to see how this plays out. The Spurs got lucky in the lottery and I want the team to capitalize on that.

The advantages of Deni:
- On a very good contract for the next 3 years. Basically MLE money.
- An all-round forward with good shooting splits, probably All Star level this year.
- Good facilitator

The disadvantages of Deni:
- Not a knockdown shooter
- Average at best defender
- I question his willingness to be a no.3 after fighting so hard to be a 1 or 2 and on the Spurs, that 1 and 2 are Wemby and Fox.
- Price to acquire

With the value of what Deni provides to the Blazers, I doubt that they would trade him for anything less than Vassell and 3 first rounders. That's not a price I want the Spurs to pay.

So maybe Tre Murphy III is unlikely, but I think he is more likely than Deni. Also, all the other players on my list will be had either straight up for Vassell or for Vassel and 1 first rounder. Most of them also offer salary cap relief, either in yearly salary or in length of contract.

I think the Spurs can contend this year, that is why my target is second round of the playoffs and I don't want to disrupt current team dynamics too much. Last year was different, Fox offered a significant talent upgrade and the price to acquire him was reasonable. Deni's price, especially with his current level of play is likely to be sky high and if he was the final piece to a championship contender, I would be more inclined to look at acquiring him.