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The 2025 Rookie Class

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Re: The 2025 Rookie Class 

Post#541 » by closg00 » Yesterday 4:07 pm

nate33 wrote:I think the next few weeks will be real interesting for Queen. He has no doubt been exceptional on offense, and the on/off numbers suggest he hasn't been killing them on defense either. But now that he has emerged as a legitimate threat to opposing teams, I expect teams to actually strategize how to counter him. Which likely means they will try and attack him on defense.

I've noticed his on/off differential is starting to decline and the last couple of games were negative. This could be merely an aberration, or it could be the start of a new trend.


Teams may be able to reduce his post effectiveness via double-teams etc, but he will make them pay via assists, his assist numbers are very good.

AI Prompt: Where does Derik Queen rank among backup centers in assists

“Derik Queen ranks among the top backup centers in assists with an average of 3.3 assists per game. Compared to other backup centers in the 2025 NBA season, he is one of the higher assist producers, ranking within the upper tier of backup centers by assists. While elite starters like Nikola Jokić and Domantas Sabonis have much higher assist numbers, Queen’s 3.3 assists per game place him above many backup centers who average around 1.5 to 2.5 assists. This solidifies his role as a playmaking center off the bench in the league”
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/nba-assist-leaders-2025-centers
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Re: The 2025 Rookie Class 

Post#542 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Yesterday 5:12 pm

tontoz wrote:The Pels were up 15 at the half against the grizzlies but still managed to lose anyway. Their new "offensive engine" was -24 in 23 minutes. I can't imagine how that could happen.
Jose Alvarado (÷25) and Yves Missi (+19) were more effective than Jeremiah Fears (-28) and Derik Queen(-24).

Zack Edey (+39), Vince Williams (+27), and Cedric Coward (+24) saw their lineups win.

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Re: The 2025 Rookie Class 

Post#543 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Yesterday 5:37 pm

tontoz wrote:The Pels were up 15 at the half against the grizzlies but still managed to lose anyway. Their new "offensive engine" was -24 in 23 minutes. I can't imagine how that could happen.
tontoz wrote:
closg00 wrote:Fair enough, I was going by a vague recollection, who did you stick your neck out for in the 2025 draft?
Your hate on DQ is going to look really foolish, sooner rather than later, but especially later.


I wouldn't even be mentioning Queen if CCJ wasn't obsessed with him and posting 'we should have drafted Queen ' ad nauseum.

I didn't say much of anything about Queen prior to the draft. I was pretty much indifferent about him.

I had Ace/Tre/VJ at 3-5. I did post about Riley a few times as a possibility at 18.

I am now obsessed with telling you that you're the only person I seriously do not care for. Small minds attack people.

My ideas evolve. I removed my signature. I have made several posts with updates on Queen:

--Coward has outperformed him.
--The deal doesn't look good for Crescent City, even to me.
--Yves Missi is effective at C and should start there with Queen at PF/C

You can think the worst of me. I think you won't admit when you are wrong and you truly resent the success Derik Queen is having. You hate that I predicted that he would be successful.

You hate that others rated him behind Knueppel, Flagg, Coward, and IIRC Edgecombe as the fifth best rookie when he was drafted 13th overall.

Happy Thanksgiving, Jive Turkey.

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Re: The 2025 Rookie Class 

Post#544 » by AFM » Yesterday 5:46 pm

HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!!!!
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Re: The 2025 Rookie Class 

Post#545 » by DCZards » Yesterday 5:52 pm

Queen has been ballin’ out most nights. I think he’s on his way to being a top center in the association.

I was down on Derik in college because I thought he was lazy and indifferent on D. He still needs to improve there. But the impressive and diverse offensive skills he’s showing now were there at Maryland as well.

No need to keep crapping on Queen just because CCJ is relishing the fact that it looks like he was right about him…just not the part about the Zards missing out on him. :) I’m still very happy we drafted Tre.
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Re: The 2025 Rookie Class 

Post#546 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Yesterday 5:54 pm

nate33 wrote:I think the next few weeks will be real interesting for Queen. He has no doubt been exceptional on offense, and the on/off numbers suggest he hasn't been killing them on defense either. But now that he has emerged as a legitimate threat to opposing teams, I expect teams to actually strategize how to counter him. Which likely means they will try and attack him on defense.

I've noticed his on/off differential is starting to decline and the last couple of games were negative. This could be merely an aberration, or it could be the start of a new trend.
In the last game, there was a giant dude named Edey playing for Memphis.

Two games ago, Chicago shot 50 threes and made an astounding 20. The Bulls have no traditional C. Queen had 4 fouls in 17 minutes. He provided 8 points, 5 rebounds, and 4 assists in that time.

Keeping in mind that he's a soon-to-be, 21-year-old rookie, I think Derik is off to a good start. No one remembers his fractured wrist surgery or his excess weight. I expect he will improve physically.

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Re: The 2025 Rookie Class 

Post#547 » by tontoz » Yesterday 6:40 pm

I don't hate Queen. I give no fs about Queen. I only watched one of his college games. Hardly mentioned him prior to the draft. Didn't mention him at all after the draft, in summer league or in preseason.

I made a lot of negative posts about Maluach prior to the draft, but not Queen.
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Re: The 2025 Rookie Class 

Post#548 » by Kanyewest » Yesterday 7:39 pm

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Re: The 2025 Rookie Class 

Post#549 » by tontoz » Yesterday 7:44 pm

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Re: The 2025 Rookie Class 

Post#550 » by payitforward » Yesterday 8:08 pm

DCZards wrote:Queen has been ballin’ out most nights. I think he’s on his way to being a top center in the association.

I was down on Derik in college because I thought he was lazy and indifferent on D. He still needs to improve there. But the impressive and diverse offensive skills he’s showing now were there at Maryland as well.

No need to keep crapping on Queen just because CCJ is relishing the fact that it looks like he was right about him…just not the part about the Zards missing out on him. :) I’m still very happy we drafted Tre.

Agree. & even if neither Derik nor Tre work out... lets please drop the negativity immediately. Especially in back & forths. We're all right sometimes & wrong other times. Hell... even the best GM in the league only gets it right some of the time!

Focus on the fuiture, my friends...! We're heading in the right direction, so stay the course!
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Re: The 2025 Rookie Class 

Post#551 » by Kanyewest » Yesterday 9:00 pm

DCZards wrote:Queen has been ballin’ out most nights. I think he’s on his way to being a top center in the association.

I was down on Derik in college because I thought he was lazy and indifferent on D. He still needs to improve there. But the impressive and diverse offensive skills he’s showing now were there at Maryland as well.

No need to keep crapping on Queen just because CCJ is relishing the fact that it looks like he was right about him…just not the part about the Zards missing out on him. :) I’m still very happy we drafted Tre.


Yup 4th on the rookie ladder. Still has flaws in his game for sure but a very impressive rookie season so far.
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Re: The 2025 Rookie Class 

Post#552 » by Dat2U » Yesterday 10:16 pm

My review of the draft so far (top 34):

1. Flagg - I keep telling myself he's only 18. Dallas also has him playing out of position at PG and yet he's still productive. I never thought he was generational but he's living up to my expectations and he was always #1 on my board. Once Dallas moves AD, Flagg should slide in at PF and flourish.

2. Harper - I wish he didn't get hurt because he was on his way to carving out a major role, quickly establishing himself as a walking paint touch and arguably Wemby's best running mate. His ceiling is sky high.

3. VJ - burst out the gate but has cooled off significantly. The shot will come & go, he's very streaky right now. Too bad the overpriced vets can't take the pressure off him & Maxey. I still like the Oladipo comparisons as he continues to polish his handle & improve his shot versatility in the offseason.

4. Knueppel - really is the one guy I missed on big time. Partly because I've seen diminishing value on all offense no defense role players which i had him pegged as. Well he's killing the role player talk with his elite feel & instincts and an improving handle - this plus a rock solid frame has allowed him to go beyond the catch and shoot limitations and scale up into a full time 2nd/3rd option as a rookie. I worry about the margin of error if he ever gets hurt (McCain is going through this now with his inabiliyy to turn the corner post injury) but Kon has been a great and stabilizing pick for Charlotte.

5. Bailey - like Sarr last year, Bailey is all flashes this year. You just want to see enough flashes to give you hope that he'll refine the rougher edges of his game. He was always a more long term prospect so the advanced numbers will be rough but in time I think the Jazz got a real good player.

6. Johnson - the scoring flashes are legit but the recent injury news tells an underlying story of why he felt underused and was not seeing heavy minutes. I didn't like having him stand in the corner at all so I hope when he returns fully healthy, we can see his elite shooting weaponized to some extent. His biggest thing to work on is getting stronger so he can begin to hold his own on defense. Right now he's a lost cause but I think it doesn't always have to be that way with his height/wingspan.

7. Fears - Has a really precocious knack for getting to his spots. Its honestly pretty special and maybe the Devin Harris comparisons I made pre-draft were a little harsh although Devin did have some solid years. Fears is a future bucket but the playmaking for others still leaves me a bit concerned as in order to maximize his value offensively to offset a woeful defensive projection, he's gotta be able to set the table for others and I haven't really seen that consistently yet at any level.

8. Demin - was always a reach in my book but credit the Nets for trying to make it work with him unlike some of their other prospects. Its partly because he just knows how to play. Makes excellent reads and at 6-9 offers high caliber decision making in the P&R. Despite this I still think his long term position is SF as a Joe Ingles type point forward. His shot seems to be coming along but putting pressure on the rim in the half court is nearly impossible without a designed play.

9. CMB - he's been solid even with a roster where he's not an ideal fit. Just a high IQ player who can do a little bit of everything and is showing improvement on his jumper. Not sure he has a clear path to starter with so much invested in the guys ahead of him but he'll be a key piece of someone's rotation for years at worse.

10. Maluach - its just too early to tell. I knew he was raw as could get but I would have thought the Suns would have a plan to at least get him a few minutes here and there?

11. Coward - when your 22 as a draft prospect, you better produce right away or else and Coward has not only produced but done so at an extremely high level providing immediate value for Memphis as the ideal 3&D guy with some on ball creation upside. I think the Kawhi comparisons are insane but Memphis' ability to find gems outside of the top 10 is becoming unparalleled.

12. Essengue - I admittedly was never high on the kid but he is the 2nd youngest in the draft. An oversized, skinny but under-skilled forward with a crazy FTr. To be frank, he needs major skill work & weight room work. A huge project. Lets check back next year to mark his progress.

13. Queen - his feel & footwork were never in doubt. The PG stuff he flashed at UMD but its on full display now. Just a prodigy, not Jokic but something else. What makes him controversial and not celebrational is the most simplest thing in the world for a guy to control: effort. Something professional athletes usually don't get slack for so its very unusual and makes him incredibly polarizing to me prior to and after the draft. I still had him 6/7 (lol) but I honestly did not want him at 6 and would have only considered him in a trade up from 18. That said, the world is his oyster... if he'll only work for it.

14. Sorber - injured. Out for year. He also had an injury which ended his season at G-Town. Hopefully he can make a full recovery. I compared him to Kevon Looney pre-injury prior to the draft. Now, he just might be the next Kevon Looney lol.

15. Bryant - raw. He has the makings of a toolsy 3&D guy who can level up and defend 4s while being a monster on the break but he's just so damn raw. Didn't play alot at Arizona. Excellent athlete but limited handle and interesting decision making keeps him off the ball. Another project who we'll need to check on next year.

16. Yang - Ultra skilled big who is stuck behind a deep C rotation in Portland so unless a trade opens up minutes, playing time will be hard to come by. I liked him coming out but was surprised he was taken this high. Optimistic about his future, has some point C in his game and he isnt a lost cause defensively. I think he could at least flash some high level skill if he did get minutes this season.

17. Beringer - raw. But we knew that. 7-0 uber athlete. Your standard issue rim running big although he does possess innate traits & physical toold which indicate he might be able to be very good at that limited role which still has value in today's NBA. Lets check back next year.

18. Clayton Jr - smart, polished undersized playmaker fighting for the ball with Keyonte George & Isaiah Collier. Should be a solid role player in time with his shooting, decision making and solid frame.

19. Traore - not ready. I don't love the range of outcomes for him. Nothing elite skillwise about him nor is the decision making, event creation anything to get excited about. Very poor projection defensively as well.

20. Jakucionis - interesting prospect who's skill level is not quite NBA ready but there is enough there where a tightening of the handle, improvement on the shot could give him a pathway to being on the ball - even if not full time. He's got PG level instincts but his loose handle & ocassional wonky decision making get in the way.

21. Riley - raw. Toolsy wing with high level ball skills and playmaking instincts. Too skinny to maximize his abilities right now he needs an offseason in the weight room to take advantage of the opportunites he can create for himself.

22. Powell - probably the Nets best performing draft pick, he slides in comfortably as a strong, athletic off-the-ball 3&D wing who can nail open jumpers. As long as the shots keep falling, he'll be a solid rotation player for years.

23. Newell - has flashed in limited minutes. Productive whereever he's been the key with him will be refining the edges in his game and frankly improving his awareness on defense. That's my biggest gripe but I do admit he does remind me alot of a young John Collins.

24. Clifford - old rookie seeing limited minutes in Sacramento for whatever reason but at least they consider him untouchable in trades lol. Simply put, needs to play. If he's any good, he'll show it right now. He did look ready in summer league & preseason so I do think he can at least be a solid contributor.

25. Richardson - young & very polished but undersized, Jase seems smart enough to make impact when given the opportunity. The frame should allow him to handle being targeted on D to an extent. High level decision maker & shooter with good passing instincts. Not sure he'll meet the very high standard of starting PG, but should be solid for years to come.

26. Saraf - just a really questionable pick. Has good size, solid handles, can create a little bit but it all breaks down in the execution. He's terrible finisher and a really iffy decision maker. But this was not unique to the NBA. It was in his scouting report. IMO, he needs ALOT of seasoning and probably should have been a 2nd round draft & stash but here we are.

27. Wolf - i have no idea what the Nets are doing. I actually love Wolf's skill level at 6-11 and think he can be a unique piece for alot of teams looking for a big that you can run your sets through at a high level. Wolf was used at Michigan how Queen is being used in NO. There's some variance in their skill but Wolf's is being seriously overlooked IMO. The Nets have basically G-leagued him due to a deep big rotation.

28. Gonzalez - Toolsy athletic, out of control wing that has earned minutes due to him flying around wildly on D. He's still extremely raw skillwise and plays far too fast but he has the effort & raw talent to be useful in time.

29. McNeeley - raw. Didn't look bad during summer league. I see the potential as a catch & shoot threat who can straight line drive against poor closeouts. Needs seasoning and additional strength - so another guy to check back on next year.

30. Niederhauser - questionable pick. Good athlete who doesn't know how to play but is a little too old to be considered a project. Not sure he's going to be a rotation guy going forward.

31. Fleming - raw, which is bad because he's bit older. Built like adonis, solid athlete but a bit stiff with poor feel for the game. I worry when a game moves to fast for guy and for Fleming it did in college at a mid-level school alot more than I wanted to see so I have to believe the NBA is moving at light speed for him right now.

32. Penda - built like a football player. I dunno if he's a SF or a C lol. Just so physical and can blow up plays. I think he's a potential monster on D and he flashes some on ball creation and passing. The jumper is the big question tho and it doesn't look great which may cap the ceiling.

33. James - ready made 9th/10th man in the rotation. Just smart, plays the right way, finds the open man and ocassionally hits the open shot. Not sure his ceiling his much higher than this.

34. Kalkbrenner - older prospect who seized a wide open C position and is a passable starter despite clear limitations. Elite size and good hands make him a great finisher. Slow feet and instincts may him a step late defensively for everything but to be honest, this was more than Charlotte was getting before from the C position. Should carve out a long career as a fringe starter/solid backup.
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Re: The 2025 Rookie Class 

Post#553 » by DCZards » Today 12:21 am

I wrote this about Knueppel about a week before the draft.
DCZards wrote:
payitforward wrote:What if the first 5 are Flagg, Harper, Bailey, Edgecombe, & Maluach?
Then what? Johnson? Fears?

I might well take Knueppel over either of them....Certainly over Johnson.

Yes, Knueppel has to be in the discussion. I wouldn’t have said that a week ago because I was buying the Knueppel bashing on this board.

But after watching some vids of him the past couple of days I have to admit that the young man can hoop.
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Re: The 2025 Rookie Class 

Post#554 » by payitforward » Today 1:03 am

Yes, I remember that exchange. In the end, Kon was off the board when our turn came.

I didn't then & still don't see Tre Johnson as the next best pick -- nor did I want Fears. At the same time, it's fair to say that Maluach, whom I likely would have picked, has shown himself to have a long way to go before he establishes himself.

edit: so far at least, Coward has been the best performer who was still on the board when our pick came along -- maybe the best performer overall in the draft. Tho that's not to say I or anyone needs to think it'll stay that way (...or that it won't!). He's certainly shown himself to be good enough that he'd have been a good pick anywhere including all the way at the top.

It'll be interesting to watch this all play out over time.
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Re: The 2025 Rookie Class 

Post#555 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Today 7:47 am

payitforward wrote:
DCZards wrote:Queen has been ballin’ out most nights. I think he’s on his way to being a top center in the association.

I was down on Derik in college because I thought he was lazy and indifferent on D. He still needs to improve there. But the impressive and diverse offensive skills he’s showing now were there at Maryland as well.

No need to keep crapping on Queen just because CCJ is relishing the fact that it looks like he was right about him…just not the part about the Zards missing out on him. :) I’m still very happy we drafted Tre.

Agree. & even if neither Derik nor Tre work out... lets please drop the negativity immediately. Especially in back & forths. We're all right sometimes & wrong other times. Hell... even the best GM in the league only gets it right some of the time!

Focus on the fuiture, my friends...! We're heading in the right direction, so stay the course!


payitforward wrote:
DCZards wrote:Queen has been ballin’ out most nights. I think he’s on his way to being a top center in the association.

I was down on Derik in college because I thought he was lazy and indifferent on D. He still needs to improve there. But the impressive and diverse offensive skills he’s showing now were there at Maryland as well.

No need to keep crapping on Queen just because CCJ is relishing the fact that it looks like he was right about him…just not the part about the Zards missing out on him. :) I’m still very happy we drafted Tre.

Agree. & even if neither Derik nor Tre work out... lets please drop the negativity immediately. Especially in back & forths. We're all right sometimes & wrong other times. Hell... even the best GM in the league only gets it right some of the time!

Focus on the fuiture, my friends...! We're heading in the right direction, so stay the course!


What negativity?

The victory over Atlanta allayed my worries. McCollum, Middleton, Kispert, and Champagnie all stabilized the team. Sarr dominated. Coulibaly was a Swiss army knife. Bub scored ten. Everyone got some.

We are heading in the right direction.

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