#44. LA Lakers @ Detroit Pistons. 4:30 tip, 5:30 tv delay

[LLcoleJ]

Even if you were able to somehow train guys to resist the temptation to watch the ball, when the shooter is wide open, then no guarantee that those shooters would miss in the first place, since often times, they can see out of the corner of their eyes what you're doing, and often times, what they see and how that thought crosses their mind can put them BACK into rhythm. If a "choker" sees you going for a board almost before he shoots the ball, that can make him mad and thus override his choking mentality.

Basketball is a funny game. To put it simply, it's a game of rhythm. For example, Kobe tried to be smart on Sunday by allowing Lebron to catch the ball, and then fouled him, thinking that he'd miss at least one. But what happened? Lebron knew that, and thus it overrode his choking mentality. Left naturally or done in a subtler manner, Lebron probably would have choked, but Kobe made it a bit too obvious and gave away the idea, that kind of made him mad(or perhaps calmer), and often times, that can override the fear.

I dont think any of your comments and or postitions on many topics here are even remotely accurate or logical. From Bynum should be an MVP considertation this year to Kidd being minimalized in regards to farmar or many other off the wall comments you make.

The comments above are conjecture and really dont have any backing as to what we are talking about here. I am not sure your agenda just yet but you tend to be lacking any real feel for the game of basketball and are really spinning facts to make up your argument.

[LLcoleJ]

Sorry, but it's not as simple as "letting a 6'10 PF shoot, period." If that's the case, then couldn't you just tell Kwame to double-hard on Billups, and after Billups gets rid of the ball, tell him to run straight to the basket, preparing to rebound? In other words, you're saying that you're going to let Sheed shoot the 3, no matter how open he was.

There is a degree of defense that you still need to play to force even a guy like Sheed to miss(yes sometimes, Sheed will miss them wide open, but it has to happen "naturally", you dare him beyond the "reasonable fear" of the game, and chances are he'll make them).

I am worried about you

[Slava]

1 rebound can change a lot. 1 rebound could have put us in the WCFs in 2006.

[Lakers05]

To clarify my Wilt example, when you leave someone open, you're already allowing him to "pin your mind." Having a better rebounder doesn't make a difference because the opponent is reacting too fast.
I mean, Bynum is a great rebounder, but I've seen him lost plenty of rebounds because he had to "ball-watch" and couldn't react fast enough. That situation with GS was a great example.

The only way to change that is to play better defense initially, or as stated, to train your players so that they expect misses, even when guys are wide open.

[LLcoleJ]

To clarify my Wilt example, when you leave someone open, you're already allowing him to "pin your mind." Having a better rebounder doesn't make a difference because the opponent is reacting too fast.
I mean, Bynum is a great rebounder, but I've seen him lost plenty of rebounds because he had to "ball-watch" and couldn't react fast enough. That situation with GS was a great example.

The only way to change that is to play better defense initially, or as stated, to train your players so that they expect misses, even when guys are wide open.

hhhhhhhhhhhhuh?

[Lakers05]

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I am worried about you

Please resist with the condescending remarks, that is unless you want it to be a fair exchange.

[LLcoleJ]

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Please resist with the condescending remarks, that is unless you want it to be a fair exchange.

My apolgies. They were not meant to be condescending. I was hoping you would be talking about what we were talking about in this exchange and that you dont go to far off the grid.

[Lakers05]

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I dont think any of your comments and or postitions on many topics here are even remotely accurate or logical. From Bynum should be an MVP considertation this year to Kidd being minimalized in regards to farmar or many other off the wall comments you make.

The comments above are conjecture and really dont have any backing as to what we are talking about here. I am not sure your agenda just yet but you tend to be lacking any real feel for the game of basketball and are really spinning facts to make up your argument.

All I'll say is, Luke and Sun Yue, 2007 plan, etc. As far as Bynum being an MVP, I guess you've been frequenting the players board. However, it is disappointing that you couldn't even tell the context, like most of the Clublakers bunch. Finally Kidd, so what if I've minimalized him over Farmar, never did say he was worse, did I?

[LLcoleJ]

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All I'll say is, Luke and Sun Yue, 2007 plan, etc.

huh? again ...what?

As far as Bynum being an MVP, I guess you've been frequenting the players board.

I am actually a big part of this entire site.. you?

However, it is disappointing that you couldn't even tell the context,

the context? You think he should have been an MVP? Even if you say you were half way " not joking" ( in which you said ) you would be 100% wrong.

like most of the Clublakers bunch.

never posted there but it sounds like you enjoy it!

Finally Kidd, so what if I've minimalized him over Farmar, never did say he was worse, did I?

great response.

[Lakers05]

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My apolgies. They were not meant to be condescending. I was hoping you would be talking about what we were talking about in this exchange and that you dont go to far off the grid.

Maybe I'm not being clear enough. Concepts like "imposing your will" I guess, I should have explained a little better before using them. Basically, watch the game carefully, and you'll see that it's a lot easier to grab rebounds when a guy is shooting that you don't fear is going to make the shot. What happens now is that your mind reacts a little quicker, and since basketball is a game of split reactions, that can often make the difference.

See how the team often times come up with offensive rebounds even when Kobe misses, even when he's injured? That's because even when he misses, the opponent still fears that he's going to make the shot. Every time Kobe takes a shot that looks "makeable," it freezes the opponents. This makes them react slower to rebounds, and by default, our players to react quicker.

When this happens, we can call it as our offense imposing its will on the defense. However, guys like Bowen can force Kobe to take very tough shots that his team can expect Kobe to miss, in this case, the defense is imposing its will on us.

[Lakers05]

To be fair, I wasn't the one that came up with the phrase "imposing your will on the defense." George Karl did, and when he brought it up, I knew what he was referring to immediately(it's the reason why shooting percentages don't show why Kobe is a better 1st option than Odom.)

[LLcoleJ]

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Maybe I'm not being clear enough. Concepts like "imposing your will" I guess, I should have explained a little better before using them. Basically, watch the game carefully, and you'll see that it's a lot easier to grab rebounds when a guy is shooting that you don't fear is going to make the shot. What happens now is that your mind reacts a little quicker, and since basketball is a game of split reactions, that can often make the difference.

See how the team often times come up with offensive rebounds even when Kobe misses, even when he's injured? That's because even when he misses, the opponent still fears that he's going to make the shot. Every time Kobe takes a shot that looks "makeable," it freezes the opponents. This makes them react slower to rebounds, and by default, our players to react quicker.

When this happens, we can call it as our offense imposing its will on the defense. However, guys like Bowen can force Kobe to take very tough shots that his team can expect Kobe to miss, in this case, the defense is imposing its will on us.

you are wandering to much here. Its simple if you are up by 2 the last thing you want is for the opposing team to shoot a 3. Ok, Sheeds shoots a 3..the very basic instinct of basketball in this sense ( when there is time left on the clock) is to get on the 3 point threats. Its far easier to have a chance to win or save the game when you are not giving up second chance 3's.

"will" has nothing to do with percentages... you play the percentages.

[LLcoleJ]

To be fair, I wasn't the one that came up with the phrase "imposing your will on the defense." George Karl did, and when he brought it up, I knew what he was referring to immediately(it's the reason why shooting percentages don't show why Kobe is a better 1st option than Odom.)

that has nothing to do with the last play(s) of the game.

[Lakers05]

Yes, it does. If we had played better D, like let's say Kobe was on Billups, Kobe's length would have minimized the distance that Kwame would have had to hedge, which means he would have been able to get back to Sheed earlier. In this case, the shot would be more contested and probably come up short, thus no offensive rebounds. By putting Fish on Billups, we allowed them to impose their will on us, and obviously, that's not a good thing.

Or we could have tried a full-switch with Kobe on him and force Chauncey to beat Kwame. We most likely would have been forced to help. However, Kwame's height would have prevented Billups from beating him to the point at which it is impossible to recover. In other words, if Chauncey were to beat him, it would probably not until he gets under the hoop, in which case, Lamar could try to sag and then recover(and to me, Odom is very good at recovering, I mean, you have to get beat pretty badly for him to not be able to help and recover.)

Heck, we could have even tried to put Vlad on Billups and tried the strategy above, if we were worried about Rip shooting over Fish.

Finally, we could have tried Kobe on Billups and Sasha on Rip. IMO, this would have been the best option, since Rip wouldn't have been able to shoot over Sasha as easily as he does over Fish, if Kobe was switched to Billups.

The bottom line is that Phil messed up, BIG, on both ends. In fact, I'd say he gave this one away, a shame considering that we should have never been in that position in the first place. Truly an opportunity wasted.