Lamar in a perfect situation now!

[KobeFan]

Odom's contract is back loaded with interest. His deal was 6/$65 signed in 2003. Whatever we saved in the earlier part of the contract we're paying now. That comes out to 10.83/season + interest.

To perform in the post season you have to get there first. Using the largest body of work (the regular season) I used their Player Efficiency Rating, and Worthy came out slightly ahead of Odom.

Fans, Coaches, Writers vote on accolades like all stars, & mvp finals, many of the progressive statistics used now weren't used back then. Odom's game isn't aesthetically pleasing, but that doesn't mean his value should be discounted. Which is what's happening here.

Again, Worthy is an all time Laker great and I appreciate his career and his impact on this Franchise, I'm not taking anything away from his accomplishments. Odom quietly has had a huge impact on this teams success and is paid accordingly for it.

[blix]

If we can't use statistics to judge a players impact on a game, what do we use?

Stats tell half the story...eyes tell the other half. Worthy is better using PER, he is exponentially better from an observation standpoint.

Honestly, I didn't think anyone on this board would be obtuse enough to debate the value of Worthy/Odom. I still can't quite believe it.

[blix]

Odom's contract is on the books as 6/$65. Regardless of how backloaded his deal is, or how that breaks down annually, at the end of the day he signed a contract that would guarantee him $65 million for the next 6 years in 2003. That comes out to just under $11/season (10.83 million per)

Here's how his salary breaks down so far:
2003-04 $9,960,000
2004-05 $10,548,596
2005-06 $11,465,333
2006-07 $12,348,596

I'm not sure what you're not including his 07-08 salary or his 08-09 salary, as both those seasons are part of his contract. Here's how his salary breaks down so far, as you said:

2003-04 $9,960,000
2004-05 $10,548,596
2005-06 $11,465,333
2006-07 $12,348,596

But when you include this year and next:

2007-2008: $13,524,000
2008-2009: $14,559,000

The total contract ends up being 72.4M over 6 years, which is $12.07M per year; or $12M+ per as I originally accurately stated.

We'll use the prime of Worthy's career:
1985-86 20.4
1986-87 18.4
1987-88 18.2
1988-89 19
1989-90 19.8

Compared to Odom's prime:
2003-04 18.5
2004-05 17.3
2005-06 17
2006-07 16.1
2007-08 (still pending)

I concede, Worthy's day to day production has been consistently better than Odom (only using his prime/best years from 85-86 through 89-90). However, Worthy is a HOF'r, and recognized as one of the better Forwards in the history of the game, just the fact that Odom and Worthy can be compared puts into context how important Odom's skill set is to this basketball team.

None of what you said addressed the fact that Worthy's game in the postseason was far, far superior than anything LO has done in the regular or postseasons, especially deep in the playoffs against elite defensive teams. Your PER comparison on its face is misleading considering Worthy's far superior playoff output and the fact that he was a 3rd option during many of the title runs while LO has been given 1st or 2nd option reins his entire career up until this season. So when you add in his far superior playoff success and intangibles, Worthy absolutely blows Odom out of the water. The fact that we're talking about them in a comparison says nothing about how important LO's skill set is; you are making this ludicrous comparison, no one else is.

Worthy's career accomplishments by 28 (LO's current age) included the following:

All Stars Games: 5
All NBA Teams: 2
Finals MVPs: 1
HOF probability: 83.3% (inducted in 2003)

Odom's career accomplishments by 28 (his current age) include the following:

All Stars Games: 0
All NBA Teams: 0
Finals MVPs: 0
HOF probability: <1%

This comparison is not close in terms of accomplishments, impact, OR statistical output when it matters (postseason). A seriously sad comparison.

Thanks for that - I don't have the patience to go look up numbers to prove a point that should be obvious to anyone who has seen both guys play.

[EHL]

Odom's contract is back loaded with interest. His deal was 6/$65 signed in 2003. Whatever we saved in the earlier part of the contract we're paying now. That comes out to 10.83/season + interest.

Which is relevant because the Lakers are actually paying the interest, so your point about his contract is moot. He had a trade kicker, and it kicked in, in July 04. What he got over the length of his contract is $12M+ and his agent is well aware of that, as is Odom.

To perform in the post season you have to get there first. Using the largest body of work (the regular season) I used their Player Efficiency Rating, and Worthy came out slightly ahead of Odom.

We can only go on what has happened in reality, and reality dictates that James Worthy was a far superior player by the age of 28 in comparison to Odom. It's not close statistically, as my previously listed numbers clearly enumerate.

Fans, Coaches, Writers vote on accolades like all stars, & mvp finals, many of the progressive statistics used now weren't used back then. Odom's game isn't aesthetically pleasing, but that doesn't mean his value should be discounted. Which is what's happening here.

Ah, so fans, coaches, and writers all have no idea that Odom is pretty close to James Worthy? Is that really the conclusion you want people to draw? Because what I see here is vague and poor justifications for what was clearly an asinine comparison to begin with.

Again, Worthy is an all time Laker great and I appreciate his career and his impact on this Franchise, I'm not taking anything away from his accomplishments.

I'm not sure you do, and I'm not sure you watched him, at all. Because if you did you wouldn't be making the comparison. Not only was Worthy clearly a better player statistically in the regular season in a 3rd option role compared to Odom's 1st/2nd option role (up until this season), but he was a vastly superior player statistically in the postseason when it mattered most.

Odom quietly has had a huge impact on this teams success and is paid accordingly for it.

The statistics, accolades, and observational data all say no. But you can continue to parrot this falsehood if you like. No one will take it seriously, though.

[dingclancy]

-= original quote snipped =-



Odom's rebounding numbers with LA are inflated due to the fact that we didn't have any one else. I know it, everyone knows it and I'm fairly certain that - as the greatest playground baller in history - even you know it. Let's see what he brings to the table when we now have 2 legit 7 footers....I doubt it will be worth $13M. And no, BS, a guarantee based on your insight doesn't cut it.

Odom is the 29th highest paid player in the league. I want him to succeed, but I'm tired of being teased with games like last night. Period.

There is not such thing as inflated rebounds

[LLcoleJ]

I am in shock that there is an actual debate involving Big Game and Lamar. HA

[B-Scott]

Im not going to say Lamar Odom is on James Worthy's level,but if Lamar played on that showtime Laker team,he would start over AC Green and his numbers would be higher playing with Magic and getting a lot of easy baskets.

Considering Lamar averaged 16 and 10 last season and 15 and 9 2 years ago. Put him on the 1982 thru 1987 Lakers and thats probably 19 and 10.

Keep in mind he wouldnt have to get all of his points having to create his own shot. he would get extra baskets in transition which he rarely gets here and Magic simply finding him out of the halfcourt set.

I can easily see - REBOUND TO LAMAR, TO MAGIC, MAGIC COMING DOWN THE FLOOR TO WORTHY, BACK TO MAGIC, TO LAMAR SLAAAAAAAM DUNK Lakers up by 25

Lamar is the perfect PF for the showtime Lakers. If he struggles with a guy like Kevin McHale,you bring in Mychal Thompson. AC Green couldnt guard McHale either thats why they traded for Thompson.

[BCLakerFan]

WOW!

[B-Scott]

16 and 10 with Smush Parker as your PG

You mean to tell me he wouldnt average just 3 more points with the greatest PG in NBA history on a team that gets a ton of easy baskets.

The 80s Lakers got a lot of cheap buckets that helped everyones scoring average.

[LLcoleJ]

I can easily see - REBOUND TO LAMAR, TO MAGIC, MAGIC COMING DOWN THE FLOOR TO WORTHY, BACK TO MAGIC, TO LAMAR SLAAAAAAAM DUNK Lakers up by 25

I love this place

[Kreuk]

B-Scott, go get Lamar and set off on a journey to find the DeLorian. Make a movie about it and call it Back to the Showtime. Because that's the only logical way to prove your point.

[milesfides]

OH MY

I haven't kept up with this thread, but OH MY

[KobeFan]

I know a straw man when I see it.

[Kirk Moon]

Im not going to say Lamar Odom is on James Worthy's level,but if Lamar played on that showtime Laker team,he would start over AC Green and his numbers would be higher playing with Magic and getting a lot of easy baskets.

Considering Lamar averaged 16 and 10 last season and 15 and 9 2 years ago. Put him on the 1982 thru 1987 Lakers and thats probably 19 and 10.

Keep in mind he wouldnt have to get all of his points having to create his own shot. he would get extra baskets in transition which he rarely gets here and Magic simply finding him out of the halfcourt set.

I can easily see - REBOUND TO LAMAR, TO MAGIC, MAGIC COMING DOWN THE FLOOR TO WORTHY, BACK TO MAGIC, TO LAMAR SLAAAAAAAM DUNK Lakers up by 25

Lamar is the perfect PF for the showtime Lakers. If he struggles with a guy like Kevin McHale,you bring in Mychal Thompson. AC Green couldnt guard McHale either thats why they traded for Thompson.

your posts are all sig worthy, B-Scott

[EHL]

I know a straw man when I see it.

^ Ditto for desperate posters.

[Kirk Moon]

I know a straw man when I see it.

I know my Lakers when I see them, and Odom is not half a player Big Game was.

[blix]

There is not such thing as inflated rebounds

When the only other guy that can potentially grab them has carney hands and throws cake...yes, there is. Bynum has developed into a solid-above average rebounder. Gasol is solid too.....are you following me here?

[blix]

I am in shock that there is an actual debate involving Big Game and Lamar. HA

A debate has 2 logical arguments....this is just silly.

[El Hardee]

Being that Lamar is my favorite Laker I have always enjoyed B-Scott, but to put Lamar on Worthy status is just, as Tyson would say LUDICRISS. Sorry B-Scott you are no longer in my fav 5.

[blix]

^^To BS's credit....I don't think even he is comparing JW to LO. And THAT is extremely telling to those who have been paying attention.