MVP Watch 2008... Part 3.

enigmatics · Post #921 » by **enigmatics** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:50 pm

LABallaz08 wrote:I cant remember the last MVP that didnt have at least one other current All-Star on his team. (And Kobe doesnt even have an All-Star on his team this year... Or the past 3 years for that matter)

You don't think Gasol or Bynum would've been all-stars had they been starting the whole season with the Lakers? Let's not play this semantical game of all-stars.........because you clearly have some no-brainer all-star potential..........

Kobay · Post #922 » by **Kobay** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:51 pm

Man you guys have no patience, its only a month till season ends. Everything will be clear by then.

RocketPower23 · Post #923 » by **RocketPower23** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:54 pm

Seriously this is ridiculous. How can anyone place that kind of expectations on Bryant with a team that he had at the moment. Now it's not a terrible lineup they have right now, but the problems that lineup has gets magnified when playing against teams like the Hornets, Rocket etc. You expect him to lead them to a winning record on this 4 game road trip with that lineup and against that competition. I don't think I've ever seen so many requirements and responsibility for a player to have, especially during this stretch.

Kobay · Post #924 » by **Kobay** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:54 pm

enigmatics wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

You don't think Gasol or Bynum would've been all-stars had they been starting the whole season with the Lakers? Let's not play this semantical game of all-stars.........because you clearly have some no-brainer all-star potential..........

So your saying KObe made his teamates better because gasol wouldn't be on the allstar roster if he was on the Griz? Jut like David west wouldn't be there if it wasnt for cp3 making him better. You know after all thats why nash won MVPs.

RocketPower23 · Post #925 » by **RocketPower23** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:55 pm

enigmatics wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

You don't think Gasol or Bynum would've been all-stars had they been starting the whole season with the Lakers? Let's not play this semantical game of all-stars.........because you clearly have some no-brainer all-star potential..........

Hey here's an idea, how about you tell us your MVP?

Andrew Bynasty · Post #926 » by **Andrew Bynasty** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:56 pm

enigmatics wrote:You don't think Gasol or Bynum would've been all-stars had they been starting the whole season with the Lakers? Let's not play this semantical game of all-stars.........because you clearly have some no-brainer all-star potential..........

I underlined 2 key phrases... Gasol has been on this team half the season... Bynum has been on this team the other half of the season. People just look at the Lakers on paper and think how amazing their roster is, but forget about injuries and the fact that Gasol and Ariza were acquired mid-season.

And All-Star potential means nothing. Sure, anyone "could" be an All-Star, but its a fact plain and simple that Kobe has 0 current All-Stars on his roster this season.

enigmatics · Post #927 » by **enigmatics** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:00 am

KB8MVP wrote:Seriously this is ridiculous. How can anyone place that kind of expectations on Bryant with a team that he had at the moment. Now it's not a terrible lineup they have right now, but the problems that lineup has gets magnified when playing against teams like the Hornets, Rocket etc. You expect him to lead them to a winning record on this 4 game road trip with that lineup and against that competition. I don't think I've ever seen so many requirements and responsibility for a player to have, especially during this stretch.

...........it's just that we're lookig at teams as a whole and deciding how much a player is worth if he were to be gone. There's no doubt, losing Kobe with Gasol and/or Bynum still in the lineup would be impactual...... but not nearly as impactual as if this were last year's Lakers.

You also have to consider the elevation factor. Is it coincidence that Bynum got better this year because of Kobe? Or was it because of his development into his 3rd season? Kobe clearly didn't think he was worth a d*mn prior to this year so I'm inclined to think Kareem and the fact that he's 3 years in were the major factors. If you look at a guy like Paul, in his 2nd season, he drastically elevated his game and has made everyone around him better.......similar to what Nash accomplished - specifically the year Amare was out..........

In my opinion a Paul-less Hornets team struggles worse than a Kobe-Less Laker team this season.

enigmatics · Post #928 » by **enigmatics** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:02 am

KB8MVP wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Hey here's an idea, how about you tell us your MVP?

Paul......bar none.........

eatyourchildren · Post #929 » by **eatyourchildren** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:02 am

OK

So at full strength, Kobe will play with a former All-Star (Gasol) and a potential All-Star (Bynum).

That's still less than Duncan and Nash of former years.
And it's on par with CP.

Again--what's your point?

Andrew Bynasty · Post #930 » by **Andrew Bynasty** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:03 am

enigmatics wrote:............ I'm not attacking Kobe by any means........... but after watching the team take off once Bynum developed and when Gasol arrived, in my eyes it took away from Kobe's MVP credibility.

Are you kidding me? No, Im being serious. Are you mentally stable? Do you expect the Lakers to win consistantly with Kwame as a starting Center? And you dont expect any dropoff in production when Bynum and/or Gasol goes down? You hold Kobe to such a high level of expectation that it sickens me.

enigmatics wrote:I think a lot will get decided within the next couple of games as you continue to play without Gasol..........but you've dropped a couple of games in a row now and it shows you the value of a guy like Gasol in terms of the team's success.

Wow, now I know your missing something upstairs... They dropped 2 games on the road to 2 of the hottest teams in the league without their top 3 centers... Wow, Kobe must suck.

(And by the way, they made both games close... Neither were blowouts)

:banghead:

enigmatics · Post #931 » by **enigmatics** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:04 am

Kobay wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

So your saying KObe made his teamates better because gasol wouldn't be on the allstar roster if he was on the Griz? Jut like David west wouldn't be there if it wasnt for cp3 making him better. You know after all thats why nash won MVPs.

Huh? I'm addressing the poster who talked about the Lakers as if they're putting scrubs out there on the court with Kobe, talking about other teams' all-stars. The Lakers clearly have all-star talent with the arrival of Bynum and Gasol. Odom is no scrub either.....it's just that his game suffers tremendously when it's just he and Kobe out there.

enigmatics · Post #932 » by **enigmatics** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:06 am

LABallaz08 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I underlined 2 key phrases... Gasol has been on this team half the season... Bynum has been on this team the other half of the season. People just look at the Lakers on paper and think how amazing their roster is, but forget about injuries and the fact that Gasol and Ariza were acquired mid-season.

And All-Star potential means nothing. Sure, anyone "could" be an All-Star, but its a fact plain and simple that Kobe has 0 current All-Stars on his roster this season.

Ehhhhhh not anyone can be an all-star. Again, you're just playing with semantics because both you and I know Gasol is an all-star if he's on the Lakers the entire season. You can't discredit Gasol's talent level like that.

enigmatics · Post #933 » by **enigmatics** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:09 am

LABallaz08 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Wow, now I know your missing something upstairs... They dropped 2 games on the road to 2 of the hottest teams in the league without their top 3 centers... Wow, Kobe must suck.

(And by the way, they made both games close... Neither were blowouts)

Wow. You're getting way too heated. Seperate your undying love affair for Kobe for one second and join the discussion. If the Lakers struggle, it will magnify the importance of a player like Gasol, thereby taking a little bit away from Kobe's "value" ........now I'm not saying he's not valuable, but we're talking to what degree and what it means to the team's overall success as well as the rest of the players.

Kobay · Post #934 » by **Kobay** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:09 am

Well because kobe can make the game easier for his teamates by drawing attention and give them the boost when they need it, your telling me thats not valuable asset to a team?

Would you say lakers are the worst defensive team right now because they have no one in the post? So wouldn't kobe be as valuable to them now because he is the difference maker with his offense?

enigmatics · Post #935 » by **enigmatics** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:11 am

Kobay wrote:Well because kobe can make the game easier for his teamates by drawing attention and give them the boost when they need it, your telling me thats not valuable asset to a team?

Would you say lakers are the worst defensive team right now because they have no one in the post? So wouldn't kobe be as valuable to them now because he is the difference maker with his offense?

Again, we're talking about "degree of value" with these players who are being considered for the MVP. I no doubt believe Kobe is of great importance to his team.

Kobay · Post #936 » by **Kobay** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:13 am

^right and hasn't the lakers been successful this season considering constant injuries and fluctuating line ups?

eatyourchildren · Post #937 » by **eatyourchildren** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:13 am

enigmatics wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Wow. You're getting way too heated. Seperate your undying love affair for Kobe for one second and join the discussion. If the Lakers struggle, it will magnify the importance of a player like Gasol, thereby taking a little bit away from Kobe's "value" ........now I'm not saying he's not valuable, but we're talking to what degree and what it means to the team's overall success as well as the rest of the players.

Paul has a former-All star (Peja), a potential all star (Chandler), and some decent roleplayers with him, not to mention they've been healthy all season long. So I don't understand how that makes his team that much worse than the Lakers.

Post #938 » by **og15** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:52 am

Did you just call Tyson Chandler a potential All-Star or did I read that wrong? Where is Tyson Chandler a potential All-Star, in the East back when they had no C's?

Peja being a former All-Star doesn't come into play in terms of a talent comparison here, that's like someone saying Shaq was a former All-Star. Peja is still good, but he isn't at an All-Star level right now, while Pau Gasol is definately at an All-Star level, and the main reason he wouldn't make the team would be a poor team record.

eatyourchildren · Post #939 » by **eatyourchildren** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:12 am

og15 wrote:Did you just call Tyson Chandler a potential All-Star or did I read that wrong? Where is Tyson Chandler a potential All-Star, in the East back when they had no C's?

Peja being a former All-Star doesn't come into play in terms of a talent comparison here, that's like someone saying Shaq was a former All-Star. Peja is still good, but he isn't at an All-Star level right now, while Pau Gasol is definately at an All-Star level, and the main reason he wouldn't make the team would be a poor team record.

My bad, I didn't mean Chandler, I meant West. And West IS an all star. So you have a former all star, a current all star, and an automatic double double.

Kobe has a former all star and a potential all star.

Where's the huge discrepancy that people are writing about?

CB4MiamiHeat · Post #940 » by **CB4MiamiHeat** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:18 am

look they both got GREAT 2nd and 3rd options...Kobe easily has the deeper team.

At the end of the day it doesnt matter who has more help, that didnt stop Dirk or Nash from winning it over Kobe and lebron the past few seasons.