Is Lebron a Mid-Range jumper away from being Best Ever?

Moderators: Clav, Domejandro, ken6199, bisme37, Dirk, KingDavid, cupcakesnake, bwgood77, zimpy27, infinite11285

CzBoobie
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,190
And1: 687
Joined: Dec 29, 2005
Location: EU

Re: Is Lebron a Mid-Range jumper away from being Best Ever? 

Post#81 » by CzBoobie » Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:47 pm

HouMac wrote:LeBron WILL continue to improve for a couple more years, but history suggests it'll be in areas of his game that are already his strengths. His ballhandling, court sense, 1-on-1 play and his explosiveness gets better every year. Watching the Olympics I can tell that LeBron's more athletic today then he's ever been. But I see no discernable improvements in his shot or other skill-aspects of his game. While you may point at his young age, I'll point at how many years he's been in the league - 5. Historically players do all their improvement within that time period. After year 5-6 it's pretty much who they are. They won't get much better. No skill-related aspect of a player's game is A LOT better at year 10 compared to what it was in year 5. That's how I see LeBron. He won't go from being a very mediocre to bad shooter for 5 years to becoming a consistent shooter. And a consistent shooter is what he'll have to be to have any shot at reaching MJ's level.


He's been just the best three-point shooter on the USA Team for two years now...
User avatar
INKtastic
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 23,259
And1: 5,027
Joined: May 26, 2003
Location: Ohio
Contact:
     

Re: Is Lebron a Mid-Range jumper away from being Best Ever? 

Post#82 » by INKtastic » Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:57 pm

HouMac wrote:That's how I see LeBron. He won't go from being a very mediocre to bad shooter for 5 years to becoming a consistent shooter. And a consistent shooter is what he'll have to be to have any shot at reaching MJ's level.


Injury issues are masking LeBron's improvement. Look at last year

November: eFG% .531
December: Injured finger - eFG% 476
January: healthy again - eFG% .529
February: eFG% .535
March: eFG% .522
April: Back issues - eFG% .511

The finger issue in December skewed down his numbers for the season, which otherwise were right there with Jordan.
http://www.inktastic.com/ Custom T-Shirts and more
marshmallow
Freshman
Posts: 95
And1: 0
Joined: Aug 03, 2008

Re: Is Lebron a Mid-Range jumper away from being Best Ever? 

Post#83 » by marshmallow » Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:32 pm

NetsForce wrote:
How many truely great player dont win a ring some time in their career? You have Malone, Barkley, and Stockton, but not many truely elite players like lebron fail to win titles.


Elgin Baylor
Bernard King
Thurmond
English
Gilmore
Dantley
Wilkins
Gervin
Ewing
Kevin Johnson
Chris Webber

Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, and Ralph Sampson were stopped by injuries.

GP had to piggyback for his.

KG got really lucky to get traded to Boston. Easily could have gone ringless.

Doubtful to win rings on their current teams: Dirk, Kidd, Nash, AI (I don't think very highly of him but lots of people think he's a living legend)

Nothing should be taken for granted. For all we know James will never be in the Finals again. Or maybe he'll be a modern day Baylor.

Cybulski37 wrote:He needs to work at being the best at his position? Are you high? He is without a doubt the best SF in the NBA.


I meant all time.
NetsForce
Banned User
Posts: 20,711
And1: 29
Joined: Dec 27, 2006

Re: Is Lebron a Mid-Range jumper away from being Best Ever? 

Post#84 » by NetsForce » Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:50 pm

lj4mvp wrote:I think I said earlier that it's hard to separate Jordan the player from Jordan the legend.


And it's equally true that it's hard for many people to separate Lebron the played from Lebron "the supposed" legend.

It's funny how any criticism of Lebron's game gets run back down a poster's throat.
User avatar
INKtastic
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 23,259
And1: 5,027
Joined: May 26, 2003
Location: Ohio
Contact:
     

Re: Is Lebron a Mid-Range jumper away from being Best Ever? 

Post#85 » by INKtastic » Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:52 pm

marshmallow wrote:Elgin Baylor
Bernard King
Thurmond
English
Gilmore
Dantley
Wilkins
Gervin
Ewing
Kevin Johnson
Chris Webber


Nobody on that list was as good at their peak as LeBron is at 23.
http://www.inktastic.com/ Custom T-Shirts and more
Blame Rasho
On Leave
Posts: 42,153
And1: 9,865
Joined: Apr 25, 2002

Re: Is Lebron a Mid-Range jumper away from being Best Ever? 

Post#86 » by Blame Rasho » Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:56 pm

lj4mvp wrote:
marshmallow wrote:Elgin Baylor
Bernard King
Thurmond
English
Gilmore
Dantley
Wilkins
Gervin
Ewing
Kevin Johnson
Chris Webber


Nobody on that list was as good at their peak as LeBron is at 23.


Honestly there is no hope for you when you defend your precious Lebron. Honestly...I bet you have not even glanced over Baylor's resume.
User avatar
INKtastic
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 23,259
And1: 5,027
Joined: May 26, 2003
Location: Ohio
Contact:
     

Re: Is Lebron a Mid-Range jumper away from being Best Ever? 

Post#87 » by INKtastic » Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:13 pm

Gilmore shouldn't be on the list, he won a championship in the ABA. As for balyor, I'd like to see his best season - 1961-62 - adjusted for pace. He's the only one on the list I didn't see play.
http://www.inktastic.com/ Custom T-Shirts and more
Jordan23Forever
General Manager
Posts: 8,261
And1: 54
Joined: Apr 25, 2005

Re: Is Lebron a Mid-Range jumper away from being Best Ever? 

Post#88 » by Jordan23Forever » Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:16 am

lj4mvp wrote:My whole point has been that at age 23, LeBron is considered better than Jordan was considered to be at the same age.


I don't think that's a certainty at all, really. At roughly the same age, Jordan was averaging 37/5/5/48% along with becoming the first player ever to record 200+ steals and 100+ blocks in the same season (with 236 stl/125 blk) and becoming only the second player to score 3000+ points in a season. He scored 40+ points a staggering 37 times that year, scored 50+ 8 times, blocked more shots than half the starting centers in the league and was second in steals -- dude was a terror all over the court. He had averaged 43/6/6/51% the year prior in the playoffs against perhaps the best team ever, including back to back 49/63 point games (a record).

They definitely have different styles and different advantages over each other at the same age, but I don't think you can say with certainty that Lebron is a better player than Jordan was at the same age. But we'll know for sure by next season, since, as someone above pointed out, Jordan's game really exploded after 1987 (which is scary considering how many unprecedented things he did that year).
User avatar
INKtastic
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 23,259
And1: 5,027
Joined: May 26, 2003
Location: Ohio
Contact:
     

Re: Is Lebron a Mid-Range jumper away from being Best Ever? 

Post#89 » by INKtastic » Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:49 am

I went over that earlier - LeBron is roughly the same age Jordan was before that season (45 days older). You can't make that comparison until you look at what LeBron does next year. I don't expect LeBron to ever score 37 ppg and I also went over earlier that Jordan was criticized for scoring that much himself.

There's no question LeBron has hard work to do to surpass Jordan when it's all over. It would certainly help things if he could get a teammate as good as Pippen.
http://www.inktastic.com/ Custom T-Shirts and more
pacers33granger
Forum Mod - Pacers
Forum Mod - Pacers
Posts: 15,079
And1: 6,586
Joined: Sep 26, 2006
 

Re: Is Lebron a Mid-Range jumper away from being Best Ever? 

Post#90 » by pacers33granger » Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:51 am

marshmallow wrote:
NetsForce wrote:
How many truely great player dont win a ring some time in their career? You have Malone, Barkley, and Stockton, but not many truely elite players like lebron fail to win titles.


Elgin Baylor
Bernard King
Thurmond
English
Gilmore
Dantley
Wilkins
Gervin
Ewing
Kevin Johnson
Chris Webber

Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, and Ralph Sampson were stopped by injuries.

GP had to piggyback for his.

KG got really lucky to get traded to Boston. Easily could have gone ringless.

Doubtful to win rings on their current teams: Dirk, Kidd, Nash, AI (I don't think very highly of him but lots of people think he's a living legend)

Nothing should be taken for granted. For all we know James will never be in the Finals again. Or maybe he'll be a modern day Baylor.

Cybulski37 wrote:He needs to work at being the best at his position? Are you high? He is without a doubt the best SF in the NBA.


I meant all time.


good list, but if youre putting webber, hill and, kj up there, then i think reggie miller should be too

Return to The General Board