Ariza v Artest for the Lakers

[JordansBulls]

He's a better player than Ariza and per minute has averaged just 3 shots more than Ariza did as a Laker during his career, despite Artest being a 2nd option most of his career. It's pretty obvious he's an upgrade and yet again this OP makes a terrible thread. Get over it, Kobe and the Lakers > your current favorite player/team.

@ this god awful post of yours to bash me. Your people's level of intelligence seems to always amaze me, probably couldn't even finish reading the entire post itself, due to the distraction of Kobe Bryant highlights volume 1 out of 10,000.

1) I never said Artest is a better player than Ariza, never did I say this.

2) I said Ariza was a better fit than Artest for the Lakers team that goes through a strict motion offensive scheme.

3) I watched Artest throughout the entire season, including the playoffs (every game), I made good posts about how he's going to help the Lakers with his driven personality and competitiveness.

FACT: Artest doesn't like playing in the post.

FACT: Artest likes stopping ball movement to create his own shot in even the most freelance offensive systems in Adelman's Princeton Offense.

FACT: Artest is an inconsistent 3 point shooter, despite what his percentage says. He'll shoot 1-8 sometimes, 2-9 sometimes, or even 6-7 sometimes.

FACT: He makes terrible decisions when attacking the basket (even in the few times he does this), he runs STRAIGHT into the defense, and while going towards the basket, the entire defense would often pile up in the lane forcing bad shots.

FACT: Artest has absolute terrible shot selection, he often likes to dribble the ball continuously and then jack up shots, RIGHT in the middle of the defensive player. Commentators for the Houston Rockets like Clyde Drexler have constantly criticized Artest's terrible shot selections, he's been a ball hog.

FACT: Artest likes to take his fair share of shots, throughout this season when Yao, McGrady, and Artest were often found on the court at the same time, Artest would DEMAND shots and once again in one of the most freelance ball movement offensive systems in the league.

FACT: Artest is an overrated defender that's based his rep off of his past.

FACT: Artest gets torched by many of the best offensive perimeter players in the league. Aside from Pierce, I didn't see a single good coverage on a player, defensively speaking. He's terrible, his lateral quickness absolutely sucks. Go watch some games, look at the times he does single coverage on LeBron, Wade, Melo, Roy, Richardson, Wallace, and Carter, he ABSOLUTELY gets torched. It's laughable.

FACT: I've witnessed this throughout the entire season, and so have many other Rockets fan, and they will tell you the same thing. They expected the same thing that the "popularly" opinionated Laker fans expect, and that is that he's a great slasher, an awesome player in motion offense, an awesome lock down defender, and one of the best perimeter post players in the league, but like I said, when he's getting open opportunities, he's not going to be doing those things, and he'll demand his shots, he stops ball movement, he was completely opposite of what Rockets fans thought. BUT that doesn't mean I didn't enjoy his stay, he was very entertaining, his personality is something that can mesh with any team.


FACT: I'm just too damn **** good sometimes

hahaha @ Baller24 quoting that awful Plaschke article. Are you being serious? One of the most terribly written pieces I've ever seen. Lmao, yes Ariza has a ring but so does Luke Walton and Sun Yue. LAKERS ARE GIVING UP WINS lol

LOL @ Kobe fans, you guys are the same ones that quote Jerry West continuously to bring up and HYPE the status of Kobe Bryant, you guys quote the opinion of Scottie Pippen to say Kobe is the best player this era, you guys continuously quote the opinion of media analyst constantly to hype up the status of Kobe Bryant. And I get criticized for posting a piece about Artest? God hypocrisy at it's finest is what you guys are.

So why did you make that thread about Kobe having the greatest supporting cast ever if Artest is not even better than Ariza?

It's not about that. Artest is better than Ariza, but Ariza fits better on the team. He can actually hit the open 3 and someone you can trust when Kobe or Gasol are getting doubled.

It's like saying give the Lakers Stockton instead of Gasol that they win because Stockton is considered top 25 all time while Gasol is not. Stockton is better than Gasol clearly all time, but it doesn't mean he would have given LA a better chance to win than Gasol did because of need.

[iamworthy]

How many games have Artest played for the Lakers?

[Don Draper]

How many games have Artest played for the Lakers?

You are missing the point and getting defensive for no reason. The point is that Ariza is probably a better fit for the Lakers and the same way you think about Artest is the exact same way we thought about him last off season. Rockets fans who watched damn near almost every game are telling you how he played and you guys are just saying "Well, its going to different with us." Lulz. I've been there. I like Artest and his intangibles are unquestionable, but his ball stopping and poor shot selection come with the package. Do you realize the Rockets seriously thought about trading before the deadline? But according to you, since he hasn't played a game for the Lakers these analysis are moot.

Im glad alot of non laker fans take such an interest into how the lakers will play next year with Ron Artest.

Are you telling me you don't take any interest on how new players will play with other teams? Be serious.

[iamworthy]

How many games have Artest played for the Lakers?

You are missing the point and getting defensive for no reason. The point is that Ariza is probably a better fit for the Lakers and the same way you think about Artest is the exact same way we thought about him last off season. Rockets fans who watched damn near almost every game are telling you how he played and you guys are just saying "Well, its going to different with us." Lulz. I've been there. I like Artest and his intangibles are unquestionable, but his ball stopping and poor shot selection come with the package. Do you realize the Rockets seriously thought about trading before the deadline? But according to you, since he hasn't played a game for the Lakers these analysis are moot.

Im glad alot of non laker fans take such an interest into how the lakers will play next year with Ron Artest.

Are you telling me you don't take any interest on how new players will play with other teams? Be serious.

This is all speculation. The fact that you havnt giving Artest a chance to play with Kobe, Phil, and two 7'footers is ridiculous. The second sentence of your post involves the word probably.....which isnt a definate by any stretch of the imagination. So one guy has had a chance to play for the lakers and on guy hasnt. This topic should be saved for after the season. And Rocktet fans are trying to be straight up kill joys when it comes to the lakers picking up Artest. As if the Lakers and Rockets have anything in common.

[Gus McCrae]

This is all BS about the Lakers being worse with Artest. HOU fans are acting like we don't know anything about the guy. It's not like we think he's te DPOY, or don't know he's capable of going 1-10 or can have a bad shot selection. But he was on the Rockets with no T-Mac or Yao at times and had to force the issue. HE"S NOT ON THE ROCKETS OR THE KINGS ANYMORE. And I dont think he really wanted to be to begin with.

One thing I do know about Ron Artest is he was the face of HOU during the playoffs last year, showed up in LA with a rockets logo in his hair. Got up in Kobe's face and is an intimidating guy. He's also one of the strongest guys in the league; remember how the Lakers were really "soft" then we had to compensate by playing dirty. With Artest, we are a much stronger team. He also won't get stage fright with the assignment of guarding Pierce/ Lebron and other superstar vets. The crowd loves him, him and Kobe and LO are are all close. He's a menace. I think he may lose us a regular season game or two, and he may win a couple also. But he will help us win playoff games.

I honestly do not believe we would have been able to repeate with Ariza. The Spurs got better, the Magic may or may not have, Boston will be back for a big run, and CLE has gotten better. We avoided a lot of these juggernauts last year but everyones making a run for a chip this year.

The great teams make moves even when they're on top. They don't wait to lose to make a move. This was not desperation, it was an UPGRADE. It will be an interesting season but if anyone thinks Artest will derail the Lakers they're underestimating the influence of playing with Kobe and Fish and for Phil. Artest gives us the best chance of a repeat ASSUMING we also keep LO.

[Don Draper]

How many games have Artest played for the Lakers?

You are missing the point and getting defensive for no reason. The point is that Ariza is probably a better fit for the Lakers and the same way you think about Artest is the exact same way we thought about him last off season. Rockets fans who watched damn near almost every game are telling you how he played and you guys are just saying "Well, its going to different with us." Lulz. I've been there. I like Artest and his intangibles are unquestionable, but his ball stopping and poor shot selection come with the package. Do you realize the Rockets seriously thought about trading before the deadline? But according to you, since he hasn't played a game for the Lakers these analysis are moot.

Im glad alot of non laker fans take such an interest into how the lakers will play next year with Ron Artest.

Are you telling me you don't take any interest on how new players will play with other teams? Be serious.

This is all speculation. The fact that you havnt giving Artest a chance to play with Kobe, Phil, and two 7'footers is ridiculous. The second sentence of your post involves the word probably.....which isnt a definate by any stretch of the imagination. So one guy has had a chance to play for the lakers and on guy hasnt. This topic should be saved for after the season. And Rocktet fans are trying to be straight up kill joys when it comes to the lakers picking up Artest. As if the Lakers and Rockets have anything in common.

Nobody is even trying to hate. The fact of the matter if you visited the Rockets board during the season the exact same things being said now were being said back then. Most Rockets fans I've spoken to are indifferent about losing Artest and there are reasons for that. Who isn't giving him a chance? You are reading things from thin air. People who watched him play the whole season are telling you his shortcomings and all of a sudden all you Laker fans are getting butt hurt calling everyone haters. Come on.

Lastly, the season doesn't have to start to people to give an analysis or opinion especially when it is one of a player they watched extensively.

[iamworthy]

LOL at you thinking Im butthurt...We just won a championship. Get your mind right. Thats 4 Chips this decade...and more to come.

[Don Draper]

LOL at you thinking Im butthurt...We just won a championship. Get your mind right. Thats 4 Chips this decade...and more to come.

And that has completely nothing to do with what we are talking about. Grow up.

"Dumb it down." - Lupe Fiasco

[iamworthy]

Well dont make general comments like "People who watched him play the whole season are telling you his shortcomings and all of a sudden all you Laker fans are getting butt hurt calling everyone haters." Again, Im not surprised you are posting the way you are, and Im sure your not surprised that Im posting the way I am. Just leave it at that. Like I said, its all speculation. Get at me next summer when this thread makes sense.

[Baller 24]

I never once said anything like that or anything close. I was always firmly against using player's and reporter's opinions of players as a source of argument. I only find it acceptable when a player compares another to himself in a reasonable sense. (i.e. Russell on Wilt)

You're clearly reaching buddy.

Ehh. Stuff like that happens when you've got multiple shots in your body.

he has no shame.

Whoops, meh alcoholic beverages do that when you're on RealGM don't go hand in hand, I meant to say Artest is the better individual player, but Ariza is the better fit.

You need to look up the definition of the word "fact", you have no idea what it means.

Frankly, yes I do, I've been a huge follower of Artest over the years and I've watched him regress from his most superior form during his 2004 season. I've WATCHED every single game of him this past season, including the playoffs, you're expectations for Artest are beyond wild.

Saying Artest "doesn't like playing in the post" or that he is "an overrated defender" aren't facts, those are opinions, and terrible ones not based in reality or statistics. Artest does and can play in the post, observationally verifiable. He does play elite defense, observationally verifiable.

An entire fan base will back me up with this, he didn't play in the post, he demanded shots, he stopped the motion offense ball movement. His defensive abilities? They're wildly BEYOND overrated, when I even say he was on the All-NBA 2nd team this past season, I laughed, it was undeserved truth be told. Battier was the Rockets best perimeter defender, Artest does a good job of not getting the ball in your hand in slow lateral quickness, BUT he's absolutely TERRIBLE.

These aren't "facts", but smart people know they're true. You're not part of the smart group

If a person has observed a player extensively over the past year, those aren't facts? When an entire basketball fan base says he's an overrated defender, those aren't facts? It's a damn good enough sample size. Personally, I just laugh at the expectations of Ron Artest that you groupies have, it's just beyond laughable. You guys feel the same way about him that Rockets fans did about a year ago, you guys consider him doing the things he does, which is an entirely DIFFERENT popular belief, where he doesn't do anything remotely close, he does the complete OPPOSITE. It's ridiculous, and beyond laughable if you think you're getting that same version of Artest. It's like they haven't seen him play in the past 3-4 years to start making terrible claims like that.

and it's why, for example, you tried and failed to statistically substantiate that Artest was an inconsistent shooter because you didn't create a baseline for the definition of "inconsistent". Nor provided any context to those shooting nights; for example, when those nights occurred (consecutively? weekly?) or what scoring option he was on those teams (there's a huge difference between 2nd option, which Artest was most of the season on the Rockets, and 4th option, which is what Artest would be on the Lakers, making his "inconsistent shooting" far less of a problem with 3 other superior scoring options on the floor and therefore rendering your point entirely MOOT).

Meh, I had to many alcoholic beverages to know when that was, BUT that was over an entire 2 month period, like I said, he'll shoot 1-8 one game, and then bounce back with an amazing 5-7 game, OR he'll shoot a 0-5/2-9/1-6 game and bounce back with a 6-7/4-6/5-6 game to statistically elevate his numbers on superior levels, he's like an Antoine Walker.

And frankly, the rest of your post was so downright dreadful that there's really no point in bringing down the IQ of the board further by quoting or breaking it down. If you want to play with the big boys, make sure you've graduated college by that day so the discussion isn't so juvenile from the get-go.

@ this groupie, your lack of reading comprehension didn't even allow you to finish the entire post. You can't argue against me, I didn't use statistics, I used observations that frankly an entire fan base will back up. He doesn't like doing those things, I said the great things he brings to a team, but I also LOL @ the expectations your groupies have for him, it's just laughable. And The University of Texas, McCombs School of Business >>> your garbage. Therefore, Baller 24 wins., as usual.

OMG. That is your statistical evidence? Kobe and Fisher has worse shooting swings than that. You wasted a lot of time over nothing.

Here is what I did. I took the CSV of game logs from Basketball Reference then calculated the standard deviation of 3P%.

Here is what I got

Artest:
Population (Games): 69
STD: .212453

Kobe
Population (Games): 82
STD: .242368

Derek Fisher
Population (Games): 82
STD: .28547

Ariza:
Population (Games): 82
STD: .34332

Battier
Population (Games): 60
STD: .251834

Now if you do not know what STD is then read up, but that means the higher the number the more the 3P% vary. And look. Ron Artest is MORE CONSISTENT than Kobe and Fisher.

Ariza is even worse, but in fairness, he did not become a good shooter until the second half of the season.

Lakers fans know what inconsistent means. We survived Fisher.

Stop putting your foot in your mouth. If your exercise is what you call "statistical evidence", then learn what statistics and evidence means.

EDIT: I did the calculation wanting to see for myself if Artest is inconsistent as people are making out to be, but seeing the results surprised even me. lol!

Those results were over a 2 month period, like I said look through his game logs, he'll have nights where he's just absolutely dreadful and you're pulling your hair saying "OMFG Why did he take that shot!!?" and he's just ending his game on a 1-6 night from behind the arc, but other games, his shot will be so on that he'll NAIL 5-6 to boost his statistical percentages greatly.

People can hate on Artest all they want, but he's going to be a champion in 1 year barring freak injuries. He makes our team better. We're not going to be pwned by big small forwards like Carmelo, Pierce and LeBron to the extent we have previously and Kobe is still a great defender against the quicker SFs.

If Odom re-ups, we're going to torch the league.

I'm just stating expectations that many Lakers fans have for Artest which are in every way just very inaccurate. They are expecting so much, it's like they're visioning they got the '04 Indiana Pacers Ron Artest, when in reality they got an overrated defender that's incapable of guarding players with strong lateral quickness (Roy/Wade/Carter/Melo/LBJ), but I'll say he's good against a slow witted Paul Pierce, like I said, he's good at not getting the ball in your hands, BUT once the ball gets into the opposing players hands, he gets torched constantly. It's embarrassing and just laughable, ask Blazers fans or even your own fan base when Roy and Kobe were just embarrassing his ass. PS. he sucks against Melo, Battier was the one mostly guarding him in Denver games this season, he's good against slow footed small forwards like Pierce, as I've stated. The expectations are just beyond WOW. Kobe IMO will end up guarding the best offensive player many times as Artest constantly gets torched by the faster players.




BTW, iamworthy, yes we will wait to watch, but I just letting you guys understand that the expectations you guys have are just a big myth, and it's the same exact expectations Rockets fans had en entire season ago, and they're just laughable, you're not getting the best perimeter defender, you're not getting a player that constantly looks to slash, that constantly looks fit in a motion offensive scheme, that constantly won't demand shots, and will take the option of being the 4th best player on the team, because he won't, he's going to consider himself as the 2nd best perimeter player on the team, and at the very least the 3rd option on the team, he thinks highly of himself, it's just that way, that's Ron Artest for you.

[EHL]

Some Rockets fans aren't very sharp if they think most Lakers fans are expecting great things from Artest. Laker fans are in all likelihood expecting him to improve the team because he's clearly an upgrade over Trevor Ariza, a fantastic role player but a player that clearly wasn't DPOY or All Star material at the same age as Artest (23/24). It's not really surprising that most Laker fans realize Artest makes the team better despite his obvious shot selection issues since, as happened with Ariza & Odom & Gasol, Artest's shooting percentages/FG%'s will likely skyrocket with the Lakers. That's what happens in this system playing next to Bryant et al. Knowing that, it diminishes his shot selection and decision making flaws, and exentuates his superb outside jumper. That's not to mention his D, which is clearly far better suited to huge SFs like LeBron, Pierce, and Melo, all of whom Ariza struggled to defend over the past 2 seasons due to his slight build.

[Baller 24]

Some Rockets fans aren't very sharp if they think most Lakers fans are expecting great things from Artest. Laker fans are in all likelihood expecting him to improve the team because he's clearly an upgrade over Trevor Ariza, a fantastic role player but a player that clearly wasn't DPOY or All Star material at the same age as Artest (23/24). It's not really surprising that most Laker fans realize Artest makes the team better despite his obvious shot selection issues since, as happened with Ariza & Odom & Gasol, Artest's shooting percentages/FG%'s will likely skyrocket with the Lakers. That's what happens in this system playing next to Bryant et al. Knowing that, it diminishes his shot selection and decision making flaws, and exentuates his superb outside jumper. That's not to mention his D, which is clearly far better suited to huge SFs like LeBron, Pierce, and Melo, all of whom Ariza struggled to defend over the past 2 seasons due to his slight build.

Hey, I'm just basing things off of the Lakers board, nothing more. And again, he's not good against Melo, definitely not better than Ariza who held Melo to what 40% in the WCF? Against Pierce he'll be great, not doubt, the dude is slow, looks like he has issues with obesity, faking injuries, and being overrated by a freakin' Finals MVP. Ariza has gained a lot from Kobe, and IMO he would have developed in an even better player over time for the Lakers (I definitely see his peak being on the All-NBA Defense level). Once again, I'll be surprised if Artest makes those moves on the offensive end, he did after-all play on the most freelance offensive system in the league, and when he was the 3rd option on the team early on he yelled at younger players for not giving him the ball, he demanded more touches and shots, and he stopped ball movement to create his own shot. We'll see what happens, but I just think some of the expectation are beyond wild.

[EHL]

Frankly, yes I do, I've been a huge follower of Artest over the years and I've watched him regress from his most superior form during his 2004 season. I've WATCHED every single game of him this past season, including the playoffs, you're expectations for Artest are beyond wild.

Please delineate precisely what statements of mine about Artest expectations you find "wild". I await your wimp-out.

An entire fan base will back me up with this, he didn't play in the post, he demanded shots, he stopped the motion offense ball movement. His defensive abilities? They're wildly BEYOND overrated, when I even say he was on the All-NBA 2nd team this past season, I laughed, it was undeserved truth be told. Battier was the Rockets best perimeter defender, Artest does a good job of not getting the ball in your hand in slow lateral quickness, BUT he's absolutely TERRIBLE.

Clearly Artest is a defensive upgrade over Ariza, especially against strong SFs like Pierce, LeBron, and Melo, arguably the 3 best SFs in the league and all coincidentally on Conference Finals/Championship teams. Any perceived "overrating" is irrelevant if you're not mentioning that the comparison is Trevor Ariza, a solid defender but by no means an All Defensive Team stopper.

If a person has observed a player extensively over the past year, those aren't facts?

You very well may have observed him extensively, unfortunately it doesn't mean you actually absorbed anything useful as tends to happen with people that don't know how to watch games or what to look for in those games. You fall into that category.

When an entire basketball fan base says he's an overrated defender, those aren't facts?

An entire fanbase does not say he's an overrated defender. This is precisely why your posts are terrible, you're making things up as you go along pretending that you speak for a community you couldn't possibly poll accurately yourself, since the best you could do is take a poll here on RealGM and that's, what, 100 Rockets fans or less? Please.

Meh, I had to many alcoholic beverages to know when that was, BUT that was over an entire 2 month period, like I said, he'll shoot 1-8 one game, and then bounce back with an amazing 5-7 game, OR he'll shoot a 0-5/2-9/1-6 game and bounce back with a 6-7/4-6/5-6 game to statistically elevate his numbers on superior levels, he's like an Antoine Walker.

Lame excuse. Fact is those numbers don't prove he is an inconsistent shooter and even if you somehow showed with statistical proof that he was an inconsistent shooter, that still doesn't mean much considering his role will be downgraded to 3rd option at absolute best and more likely 4th option just like Ariza was, who improved his shooting percentages/attempts from the 3-point line VASTLY as a Laker. It wasn't just some random coincidence; in all likelihood he was because the system and players he played with drew attention away from him giving him a bunch of open jump shots, something Artest has never experienced because he has never been on a loaded team like the Lakers.

:rofl: @ this groupie, your lack of reading comprehension didn't even allow you to finish the entire post. You can't argue against me, I didn't use statistics, I used observations that frankly an entire fan base will back up. He doesn't like doing those things, I said the great things he brings to a team, but I also LOL @ the expectations your groupies have for him, it's just laughable. And The University of Texas, McCombs School of Business >>> your garbage. Therefore, Baller 24 wins., as usual.

lmao. Why does it not surprise me you're from Texas. Though without question you never graduated.

[iamworthy]

Ok cool. Everyone should bookmark this and revisit it at the end of the year. We are all on record where we stand. Theres nothing wrong with that.

[dingclancy]

Those results were over a 2 month period, like I said look through his game logs, he'll have nights where he's just absolutely dreadful and you're pulling your hair saying "OMFG Why did he take that shot!!?" and he's just ending his game on a 1-6 night from behind the arc, but other games, his shot will be so on that he'll NAIL 5-6 to boost his statistical percentages greatly.

You are not thinking right. I just gave a sample of the whole season, but you are trying to trump me by looking the game logs of one player over a two month stretch without comparing it to other players. That shows me you do not have much depth in your analysis.

[EHL]

Those results were over a 2 month period, like I said look through his game logs, he'll have nights where he's just absolutely dreadful and you're pulling your hair saying "OMFG Why did he take that shot!!?" and he's just ending his game on a 1-6 night from behind the arc, but other games, his shot will be so on that he'll NAIL 5-6 to boost his statistical percentages greatly.

You do realize that based on standard deviation that your statistical claims are baseless and you've still yet to point out exactly what is "inconsistent" about that 2 month stretch of games, which dingclancy showed was actually consistent vs. his soon-to-be peer Fisher and far superior to Ariza over a whole season. Nor have you mentioned the context of those games; did he play injured or was he a 2nd option the whole time, something he without question will never be as a Laker? Just a useless list of shooting nights that, frankly, look just fine in terms of consistency.

[dingclancy]

Also maybe playing in a freelance offensive system is a problem. Of course when a player with Artest's instincts plays in a freelance offense, you get more of the bad from them. Triangle is far from a freelance system. It is free-flowing, but it is also the most structured offense out there.

Also as Rockets fans, you have also been nailing TMac for his bad shot selection. Rockets fans also complain when Brooks and Wafer takes bad shot right? I do not know how Artest suddenly stands out from the rest of the dumb chuckers on that team. You guys just have dumb players to begin with. We just took one away from you, so don't hate.

[CITYOFANGELSX3]

Houston beat a team 4-2, a team that the Lakers did not want to face due to the trouble they had against them in the regular season. Now what does that tell you?

Artest wasn't the reason the Rockets won that series, his defense was absolutely terrible against the Blazers, IIRC Brandon Roy torched him for over 40 points in Game 2, here were his final averages:
.459FG .4713PT .870FT 26.7PPG 4.8APG 2.8RPG

Overrated defender.

What does IIRC mean?

[Baller 24]

Please delineate precisely what statements of mine about Artest expectations you find "wild". I await your wimp-out.

I've already stated that throughout this entire thread, I'm sorry if you can't read.

Clearly Artest is a defensive upgrade over Ariza, especially against strong SFs like Pierce, LeBron, and Melo, arguably the 3 best SFs in the league and all coincidentally on Conference Finals/Championship teams. Any perceived "overrating" is irrelevant if you're not mentioning that the comparison is Trevor Ariza, a solid defender but by no means an All Defensive Team stopper.

You'll see, I'm sure you've watched many Lakers games, and you've seen Artest defend just absolutely terribly against them. He was terrible against Roy, he got passed him every time, same thing against Melo, LeBron? Sure, Pierce? Ok that's where I'll say he's good against, and he's NO WHERE near as close to as Battier or Kobe are when using lateral quickness, he doesn't get in your face when a player is getting ready to create his own shot. I saw two things wrong with that All-NBA Team Defense: Chris Paul and Ron Artest, both shouldn't have been on it.

You very well may have observed him extensively, unfortunately it doesn't mean you actually absorbed anything useful as tends to happen with people that don't know how to watch games or what to look for in those games. You fall into that category.

LOL nice bash, god can you not articulate anything useful in this thread using your arguments without bashing? Probably not.

An entire fanbase does not say he's an overrated defender. This is precisely why your posts are terrible, you're making things up as you go along pretending that you speak for a community you couldn't possibly poll accurately yourself, since the best you could do is take a poll here on RealGM and that's, what, 100 Rockets fans or less? Please.

Watching basketball games with eyes can show who's an overrated defender, and that's Ron Artest. There were many times the Rockets used him on Wade/Melo/Roy/Carter/Richardson/Wallace/Kobe and he absolutely got torched where Battier had to constantly bail his ass out, same thing will be happening this season when the Lakers use Kobe to bail his ass out. Overrated. This is why you're terrible, all you can simply do at this point is just bash me, that's what all your posts are, they haven't articulated anything because you can't comprehend basic reading functions.

Lame excuse. Fact is those numbers don't prove he is an inconsistent shooter and even if you somehow showed with statistical proof that he was an inconsistent shooter, that still doesn't mean much considering his role will be downgraded to 3rd option at absolute best and more likely 4th option just like Ariza was, who improved his shooting percentages/attempts from the 3-point line VASTLY as a Laker. It wasn't just some random coincidence; in all likelihood he was because the system and players he played with drew attention away from him giving him a bunch of open jump shots, something Artest has never experienced because he has never been on a loaded team like the Lakers.

Ron Artest a 4th option? Now I know you're expectations are beyond laughable. He'll demand shots, he demanded shots in the most freelance offensive system in the league in the beginning of the season, he yelled at younger players that wouldn't get him the ball, he likes stopping ball movement to create his own shot, he takes shots which he thinks are GOOD. You'll be pulling you hair saying "WHY RON!", hell even a Laker fan himself found him INCONSISTENT. When a player shoots 16%, 22%, 00% for a three game stretch and then make those percentages up by shooting 66%, 76%, and 56% that doesn't at all dramatically increase your shooting percentage? There is a reason why the FG% stat itself is considered one of the most watered down statistics to measure accuracy for shooting. Like I said, he's like an Antoine Walker.

lmao. Why does it not surprise me you're from Texas. Though without question you never graduated.

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandrevie ... c-business
#6 University of Texas--Austin
Austin, TX
4.1836

I'm just better in everyway and shape.

[iamworthy]

Houston beat a team 4-2, a team that the Lakers did not want to face due to the trouble they had against them in the regular season. Now what does that tell you?

Artest wasn't the reason the Rockets won that series, his defense was absolutely terrible against the Blazers, IIRC Brandon Roy torched him for over 40 points in Game 2, here were his final averages:
.459FG .4713PT .870FT 26.7PPG 4.8APG 2.8RPG

Overrated defender.

What does IIRC mean?

If I Recall Correctly?