POLL: It it time to rebuild??

[-MetA4-]

Keep Halladay. Let him walk if he so chooses after 2010.

Stupidest thing you could do.

[evilRyu]

Wilner said he thinks there could be 4 or 5 teams interested in Wells, where they wouldn't insist on us paying half his salary. If that's true, I say the Jays explore it.

The concern is although we were supposed to contend next year, that was because our pitching would suck. But actually, our pitching hasn't been too bad, even with the injuries. On offense, there are these guys having career years that we can't really count on for next year. Scutario, Rolen. Can we really count on Overbay for a whole other season?

One angle is for the Jays to spend some money and get some more punch in the lineup. This lineup desperately needs a power hitter. Another angle is to blow it up. I don't see how we can go into next year just thinking some added pitching will make a difference.

if that's so, there's no reason why the deal hasn't been made.... he's gotta do something.. Wells's contract is Marcus Banks-ish

[Brinbe]

Seriously, take back a bag of baseballs if we have to. Anything to get out from under that deal.

[J-Roc]

Keep Halladay. Let him walk if he so chooses after 2010.

Stupidest thing you could do.

Can't be any worse than what we've been doing since 1993.

As for stupid things fans can do, I maintain voting your own players to the all star game is one of them.

[L3M0NAD3]

I don't think a complete rebuild is the answer.

Getting rid of Wells and Rios would be nice to try and bring in some better players and roll with it next year on hopes our pitchers can stay healthy.

I agree.

This team is only a few tweaks away from really competing. A complete rebuild is not necessary.

Plus, if I'm not mistaken, under JP's reign haven't we rebuilt 2 times already.

Last thing we need is another rebuild.

Get rid of Wells and his horrendous contract and add a few pieces with that (preferably some starting pitching).

[evilRyu]

have the Jays really ever rebuilt? It seems like they try to fill in holes here and there.. lots of patch work, and it really hasn't done anything

[LLJ]

This season really went into the crapper in a hurry.

[Hoopstarr]

There's no point in me addressing several of those points (everyone knows Godfrey led the charge on the Wells signing, and that JP attempted to trade Rios before signing him) because this is obviously an idea that you've had in your mind for quite some time and you won't change it. Even with all of JP's players making contributions, it's quite obvious that your frustration at his team not making the playoffs will override all of the good things that he's done in his regime.

Anyway, without more luck, a different GM isn't going to do any better than Ricciardi has.

Wow, that is bang on. I didn't think I'd find a reasonable post like that on the Jays RGM board.

[Michael Bradley]

Sorry, you are really asking for a lot from your GM to win in the AL East with a 80M payroll. And yet, over the last 4 seasons, there haven't been that many teams as successful as the Jays in baseball (winning over 80 games in this division is extremely difficult and an achievement in itself).

Here are the adjusted standings for this year, taking out the luck factor: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/stati ... ndings.php

Saying he doesn't have a plan is also wrong. He's built a very good team here, and it's supported by many of his draft picks and trade acquisitions.

I'm asking him for one to spend the money he gets wisely and if he were to get a good bang for his buck, then I'm sure there's a justification for giving him more. But if he hand a bunch of players longterm contracts that the team regularly keeps eating big chunks of them I don't see any justification on how he should be given more money to misspend. And he has habitually bought high on players (that to me is the antithesis of Moneyball). He himself said when he was hired that he could win with a lot less. I'm confident that if you gave JP the next 25 years to get in the playoffs that the Jays would not make it once. If you're satisfied at the team winning 80 games and never having a shot at the playoffs and call that successful or competitive then so be it. I prefer to think of it as unacceptable and mediocre. And I prefer to find someone that can succeed in the circumstances that he's given rather than finding someone who uses his circumstance as an excuse while never coming close to solving it.

I agree with dirybird on this one. You can blame Godfrey for Vernon's contract, and I think that is justified, but that doesn't even scratch the surface on Ricciardi's horrific spending.

Since 2006 (ending in 2010), the Jays will have paid approximately $29 million to Corey Koskie, Frank Thomas, and BJ Ryan........to play for other teams! Think about that for a minute. Three of the four biggest free agent signings Ricciardi has made since 2005 have been outright released before their contracts were up, with the Jays eating up an enormous amount of money in the process. How does Ricciardi get a free pass on that? Unless you want to throw Godfrey under a bus for every bad financial decision the team has made since Ricciardi took over, I don't see who else is to blame for it. He has mismanaged money continuously since he was hired.

Now, has he built a good team? Yes. Largely behind the back of Halladay, but clearly an 85 win team in the AL East is going to win at least one or two other divisions in baseball given the unbalanced schedule. However, he was hired to win the AL East (or at least the Wild Card). In that scenario, his mistakes become magnified. You don't see the Rays GM crying about the salary discrepancy, probably because he is not throwing away $30 million in sunk cost. He is drafting well, trading well (Edwin Jackson aside), making good signings, etc. That is what Ricciardi needed to do. While JP has improved from 2006-onwards with drafting and incorporating his picks into the lineup, it has been too little too late. Too many of his moves from 2002-05 were very poor.

Ricciardi was well below average from 2002-05, but above average in 2006-09. Put those two time frames together and it reeks of an "average" tenure overall. That might work in the AL Central, but not in the AL East. I have seen the pythag numbers, but the pythag is not going to negate the fact that we essentially wasted the prime of arguably the best Jays pitcher ever. That was Ricciardi's competitive advantage. He (smartly) locked up Halladay to a very affordable deal. He just could not make moves around him that could put the team over the top.