Sessions Update:Ramon signs T-Wolves OS (page 310 update)

[Ayt]

I don't disagree with you at all. Opinions aren't facts though. I mean how many trailer park trash people have won millions in the lottery? Weird **** happens, educated guesses and projections and whatever are cool and you can't argue with logic but to present something as fact when it's basically an opinion is what my dispute is with.

Ok, it's not an undeniable fact that David Lee is not a mediocre player. It's an opinion and a strong probability, based upon all the evidence that lies before us today. So given the probability that David Lee would be a mediocre starter in the Bucks' system, you think it'd be a prudent decision by the Bucks to allocate him above average starter money?

Since you like Roland Rating so much, why did Lee finish 3rd on the team in 2007-08 and lead the team the season prior to that?

[Bernman]

The argument couldn't have been more pointless than people using reports from the New York Post to confirm their bias on what Sessions would receive in the market and what that indicates about him as a player. The New York Post! And then other journalists speculating from articles on the New York Post. And then Bowen asking for more information on Twitter about Woelfel's Twitter' post, misconstrued as Bowen forecasting a trade. And people buying into an obviously bogus rumor about an implausible trade, originally deriving from a poster who has a reputation to make up rumors. That's the kind of crap that's giving me a headache.....I just wish the Sessions situation could be cleared up already.

[buckaroo]

No new news other than the Clips offer has included Telfair so far and the Bucks are not interested.

It's starting to look as though Milwaukee restricted free agent Ramon Sessions might have to settle for an offer that does not start at the full mid-level exception price of $5.9 million, with sources insisting that the Knicks are no longer chasing Sessions and that Oklahoma City is reluctant to use any of its salary-cap space to pursue the point guard.

The Clippers remain highly interested in Sessions. There are persistent rumblings that they prefer him to Allen Iverson in every category apart from box-office appeal. The Bucks, meanwhile, remain prepared to match offers on Sessions … to a point.

We should soon learn how far the Clips are willing to go with an offer sheet. If Sessions proves unable to land an offer that starts in mid-level territory, Milwaukee is much more of a threat to match, which would spare the Bucks from asking too much of Brandon Jennings in his rookie season.

The Clips did try to initiate sign-and-trade talks with Milwaukee to land Sessions, but the Bucks maintain that they're not interested in L.A.'s newly acquired Sebastian Telfair.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/s ... ter-090723

[LUKE23]

Telfair is garbage.

[europa]

No surprise they aren't interested in Telfair. I'd rather have Ridnour.

And the price for Sessions continues to drop below the ML, putting Hammond in a strong position to match. If the Clips won't pony up one of their 2010 firsts, there shouldn't be a S&T in my opinion.

[blkout]

Telfair is garbage.

That is definitely reality. Yuck.

[europa]

I wonder what Wells/Woelfel will Tweet next.

[mcfromage]

No new news other than the Clips offer has included Telfair so far and the Bucks are not interested.

It's starting to look as though Milwaukee restricted free agent Ramon Sessions might have to settle for an offer that does not start at the full mid-level exception price of $5.9 million, with sources insisting that the Knicks are no longer chasing Sessions and that Oklahoma City is reluctant to use any of its salary-cap space to pursue the point guard.

The Clippers remain highly interested in Sessions. There are persistent rumblings that they prefer him to Allen Iverson in every category apart from box-office appeal. The Bucks, meanwhile, remain prepared to match offers on Sessions … to a point.

We should soon learn how far the Clips are willing to go with an offer sheet. If Sessions proves unable to land an offer that starts in mid-level territory, Milwaukee is much more of a threat to match, which would spare the Bucks from asking too much of Brandon Jennings in his rookie season.

The Clips did try to initiate sign-and-trade talks with Milwaukee to land Sessions, but the Bucks maintain that they're not interested in L.A.'s newly acquired Sebastian Telfair.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/s ... ter-090723

Finally a drop of news! Thanks for that. Glad to see Hammond is resisting the Clips efforts to pawn Telfair off on us. I'd still be interested in getting Deandre Jordan back in a S&T for Sessions (with other pieces involved) but I'd also be cool with our just matching, especially if its for less then the MLE which it looks like it could be.

[Bernman]

I don't disagree with you at all. Opinions aren't facts though. I mean how many trailer park trash people have won millions in the lottery? Weird **** happens, educated guesses and projections and whatever are cool and you can't argue with logic but to present something as fact when it's basically an opinion is what my dispute is with.

Ok, it's not an undeniable fact that David Lee is not a mediocre player. It's an opinion and a strong probability, based upon all the evidence that lies before us today. So given the probability that David Lee would be a mediocre starter in the Bucks' system, you think it'd be a prudent decision by the Bucks to allocate him above average starter money?

Since you like Roland Rating so much, why did Lee finish 3rd on the team in 2007-08 and lead the team the season prior to that?

He was a bench player, which I already mentioned was a factor, and you need to separate the bench players from the starters. They don't play against the same level of competition, obviously. If he's paid 9-10 million dollars on the back end of his contract, the Bucks would be invested into him assuming a starting role.

Also, the Knicks were one of the worst teams in the NBA during that period, so he's being compared to crap. In 06-07 he had a legitimately good year, but that was off the bench.

Does that suffice for you, Ayt?

[LUKE23]

Clippers have nothing I want that they would move other than one of their 2010 firsts in a S/T, especially if the offer is under the MLE.

[trwi7]

So given the probability that David Lee would be a mediocre starter in the Bucks' system, you think it'd be a prudent decision by the Bucks to allocate him above average starter money?

Personally I do, because at the moment the Bucks have the worst PF rotation in the entire NBA so regardless of anyone's opinion of Lee as a player, he would be the best PF on the team by default purely because the others are so bad. So by Bucks standards he is an above average starter. If I were another team would I give him above average starter money? That's a whole nother matter.

Dear Lord. You would give David Lee above average starter money just because our PF rotation is awful? That's how you end up being what we have been the past few years.

[Ayt]

He is a guy, who I have stated multiple times, can average between 8/8 and 10/10...

He averaged 16/12 because in reality he played in a system that inflates statistics. The reality is that if he played in a different system, he would be averaging around what he averages before this season.

It doesn't sound ridiculous to me because the reality is that he averaged stats better than he is normally capable of putting up because he played in a system that inflates players numbers.

I'm not trying to say that he didn't average 16/12 last season. DAVID LEE AVERAGED SIXTEEN POINTS AND TWELVE REBOUNDS LAST YEAR.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/David-Lee-87/stats/

Look at his per40 pace adjusted stats. In terms of per minute stats, the only difference is the fact that he was the primary big playing center and therefore got more shot attempts. His production is damn near identical other than a couple extra shots per game.

If Lee had been playing starter minutes the last two seasons instead of less than 30, his jump in numbers wouldn't look all that big.

[trwi7]

Why would I want to make someone mad over the internet?

Why wouldn't you? What's he going to do? Fly to Australia and go around town saying "Do you know a guy who posts on realgm by the name Citizen.Eras3d? I'm pissed at him and want to kick his ass."

[trwi7]

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/David-Lee-87/stats/

Best Case: Drew Gooden
Worst Case: Chris Anderson

Shouldn't this be flipped?

[MajorDad]

ok luke and citizen .... if bogut was a knick, what would he have averaged in the knicks' system last year? would he have produced better numbers than lee did ? would Bogut have finally been an offensive force? or would he continue to let others score while he takes charges ?

people claim players score more points in certain systems. Shaq didn't score more points in the Sun's system than he did in a half court system. i would have a hard time believing certain players could score more points in a run and gun system because they'd be worn out after 3 quarters, and wouldn't be able to play more than 20 minutes a game in that system. The system doesn't create the player's stats. the players create the system used. Porter tried to instill a more defensive oriented system for the Suns. it didn't work. the Suns played best when they tried to outscore their opponent. if bogut was a Sun, would he score more points? or would he tire out faster ? or would he allow others on the suns to score more points ? What is not reflected in a person's stats is the opportunities that person creates for others on his team to score. and scoring more points doesn't mean you're a better player. is Lee a better player tha n Bogut ? he might be. Knicks fans would probably say yes. Bucks fans would say no way.

Luke and citizen , while you may now like each other , that doesn't mean the rest of us like either of you or your discussion. i can't understand what you were even arguing about , or why you felt the need to argue in the first place. and in the end , you can look back at your discussion and come away with what ? going to get a drink? your time could have been much better spent drooling over randolph's roland ratings. I' m sure glad bernam posted a link to those roland ratings. randolph's stats are GGGGGRRRREEEEEAAAAATTTTTTTTTTTT !

[raferfenix]

I can see the Bucks being interested in David Lee regardless of what happens with Sessions---we are desperate for help at PF (presuming we'd prefer Mbah a Moute at the 3) and he is the best available at the position.

However, our interest must be based on what his final price ends up at. The key for me is years, as his price will be based on his play within our system as well as his continued improvement. He was great in Dantoni's system, but we will also be a fast break team and could be a great fit here.

He would have to play MUCH mroe defense for Skiles though, and he's never had to play D for the Knicks. It's hard to say what that will do for his development, and therein lies the key.

[Bernman]

I highly doubt the Clippers would offer the Bucks solely Bassy Telfair for Sessions. That'd be an insulting offer. The proposed deal may have included a pick, but that wouldn't have as much resonance to a casual fan in an article as a player who has a name, and if it was Telfair and a pick, instead of Jordan and a pick, it could have been the sticking point that was considered worth mentioning by whoever his source was.

[Newz]

Why would I want to make someone mad over the internet?

Why wouldn't you? What's he going to do? Fly to Australia and go around town saying "Do you know a guy who posts on realgm by the name Citizen.Eras3d? I'm pissed at him and want to kick his ass."

Twirly...

Do you want to come to Australia and beat him down with me?

[trwi7]

Why would I want to make someone mad over the internet?

Why wouldn't you? What's he going to do? Fly to Australia and go around town saying "Do you know a guy who posts on realgm by the name Citizen.Eras3d? I'm pissed at him and want to kick his ass."

Twirly...

Do you want to come to Australia and beat him down with me?

You gotta catch up. I'm posting this from the air.

[Newz]

You gotta catch up. I'm posting this from the air.

Alright.

I'm kind of worried because I am kind of a sally and he is from Australia... I bet he like headbutts us in the face or something.