Knicks Core vs. Nets Core

[cgf]

I agree with that. I give Harris a very slight edge over Nate offensively, but when you consider other aspects of the game, Harris is easily the better player.

Sure, but despite all of nate's talents offensively he's a disfunctional player because of how much he needs the ball and how much he's focused on scoring instead of making his team-mates better. If you agree that Harris is a marginally better offensive player than you have to recognize those same flaws to Harris' game which will always keep him from being even a #2 option on a top tier team.

I don't think he would make a good second option on a top tier team. I think he would make a good one on a decent/good team, and a good 3rd scorer on a top-tier team. If you put him on a team like SA though in place of Parker, I think we would succeed there as a 2nd option offensively.

Agreed, that's why I don't think the net's core is that much better set up than ours, their best player profiles to be a number 3 scorer on a top tier team and I think that if Gallo adjusts to the NBA and can play here the way he was in Italy, not even improving his game, just adapting it, he'll be a legit number two scorer on a top tier team, because he's a smarter offensive player than Harris with a much better shot, touch and understanding of how to get enough room to put the ball in the hoop, as well as the length and post skills to get into the paint and be dangerous there.

[kamaze]

Let me jump in, Devin put up the numbers to be a legit All Star and dominated not like a star carried him there ala Mo Williams.
Who was the last All Star on your team again?... Have the Knicks even represented in the ASG this decade?
He was a good enough scorer to carry the team before he got hurt.
If I was a foot taller I'd be in the NBA that kind of logic holds as much weight as toilet paper.

Oh yeah Devin put up decent numbers all right but he dominated? How so? Unless you mean he dominated in getting his team to the lottery like many of the other bad teams in the league did?

Stop looking at numbers and start looking at results. The fact of the matter is, no matter how talented you think Devin Harris is, he couldn't do much better for his team than anyone on the Knicks did. We know he has Lopez and Lee but I really can't see them doing better than the Knicks (if they do better) or even better than last season with Vince Carter. And this is my point, even if Devin Harris is an all-star point guard this season but fails to make the playoffs once again he will essentially be like the many players in the league who put up good numbers on bad teams - Zach Randolph says hi by the way.

As for your logic that we haven't had an allstar in recent years, "we must suck", Allan Houston and Latrell Sprewell were allstars in 2001. However, Mo Williams was an all-star last season and everyone saw how exposed he was in the playoffs and also undeserving of the award. All that matters from a player is can they make their team/teammates better. Just being an all-star isn't good enough...

Teams used 3 defenders to stop him from penetrating and he still put up All star points along with 7 assists, that's dominant for a point guard.
If you put Tony Parker on the Nets it would be the same result it takes more than one good player to make the playoffs.

I'll look at the #s and results realistically and you can fantasize that the Knicks are good how bout that?
Devin Harris was an All Star last year how you believe any of the players on your roster is equal is your opinion. You're wrong but it doesn't matter that much anyway both teams won't be in the playoffs.
If Harris makes the AS team and the Nets don't make the playoffs he's just like Michael Redd.

Damn that was a long time ago Allan Houston had that j that barely touched the rim when it went in.
Good luck this year.

[NYKnick87]

Let me jump in, Devin put up the numbers to be a legit All Star and dominated not like a star carried him there ala Mo Williams.
Who was the last All Star on your team again?... Have the Knicks even represented in the ASG this decade?
He was a good enough scorer to carry the team before he got hurt.
If I was a foot taller I'd be in the NBA that kind of logic holds as much weight as toilet paper.

Oh yeah Devin put up decent numbers all right but he dominated? How so? Unless you mean he dominated in getting his team to the lottery like many of the other bad teams in the league did?

Stop looking at numbers and start looking at results. The fact of the matter is, no matter how talented you think Devin Harris is, he couldn't do much better for his team than anyone on the Knicks did. We know he has Lopez and Lee but I really can't see them doing better than the Knicks (if they do better) or even better than last season with Vince Carter. And this is my point, even if Devin Harris is an all-star point guard this season but fails to make the playoffs once again he will essentially be like the many players in the league who put up good numbers on bad teams - Zach Randolph says hi by the way.

As for your logic that we haven't had an allstar in recent years, "we must suck", Allan Houston and Latrell Sprewell were allstars in 2001. However, Mo Williams was an all-star last season and everyone saw how exposed he was in the playoffs and also undeserving of the award. All that matters from a player is can they make their team/teammates better. Just being an all-star isn't good enough...

Teams used 3 defenders to stop him from penetrating and he still put up All star points along with 7 assists, that's dominant for a point guard.
If you put Tony Parker on the Nets it would be the same result it takes more than one good player to make the playoffs.

I'll look at the #s and results realistically and you can fantasize that the Knicks are good how bout that?
Devin Harris was an All Star last year how you believe any of the players on your roster is equal is your opinion. You're wrong but it doesn't matter that much anyway both teams won't be in the playoffs.
If Harris makes the AS team and the Nets don't make the playoffs he's just like Michael Redd.

Damn that was a long time ago Allan Houston had that j that barely touched the rim when it went in.
Good luck this year.

Dominant? In what sense? TP is on a completely different level from Harris. TP's game has evolved significantly since his first few years in the league. He no longer needs to use Duncan as a crutch to get his offense flowing. In fact, he's just as capable and efficient without Duncan in the lineup than he is with Duncan. Don't ever compare the two.

[kamaze]

If it takes 3 players to stop a player from penetrating and he still makes the All Star team that's dominant. Sorry for you if it's been 8 years since you've watched a dominant player.
TP's better than Harris and the Knicks have neither where does that leave you?

[stuporman]

Since when is flopping taking a charge 'lock down D'? The guy has never been able to stop anyone from scoring, he just gets in front from time to time and flops like a fish trying to draw a charge. That's not lock down D!

Taking a charge is the best 1 on 1 defense with the soft no touch rules. It's smart of Devin to use the charge that's why Tony Parker was happy o see him leave the WC.

The best 1 on 1, not even close. Taking a charge is a last ditch effort...... Not allowing the guy to get into the lane or get off clean entry passes to post players, picking pockets of people with loose handles. Jumping passes, help defense. Just plain harassing the ball handler all the time. Those are traits of good all around defenders. Throwing yourself on the ground hoping to get a charge call is not, otherwise Steve Nash would be the best PG defender in the league.

[kane2021]

1714 makes my point. On a great team he is a 3rd option scorer. And he's really not what you would call a prime time play maker. And he is not a shooter.

He sounds more like 1st option off the bench then a starting PG to a great team. Is it safe to say a player like LBJ would be the primary play maker with harris as a PG?

Is Harris that much a better play maker then moesha williams? Because harris is no where near the shooter. That means on a kick out the ball would have to go right back in or a new play would be run.

Look im not the one to bash no ones team or likes. To be like ahhhhhhhhh you suck. Im not like that. But you cant set up here and say Devin Harris is a great PG prospect. Because he isnt. Already nets fans have admitted he is more of a scorer then a play maker.

But he's not a good enough scorer to lift the team. Not a good enough play maker to take the ball away from a prime time player. And not a good enough shooter to play the arc off the ball. And he is IN his prime years now.

Parkers name has come up a few times. But look at parkers heart? Thats the biggest difference. Im not a parker fan but I take him over harris. And he is only one year older.

He put up numbers and made a AS team. I would dangle him out there. See if he could get you a young package/picks to add to the core while you guys get a arena built and get moved. That could be a 2 year project. Harris will be pushing 30.

[stuporman]

If it takes 3 players to stop a player from penetrating and he still makes the All Star team that's dominant. Sorry for you if it's been 8 years since you've watched a dominant player.
TP's better than Harris and the Knicks have neither where does that leave you?

LOL..dominant players will their teams to win. Harris is a stat whore in the mold of the many losers who put up big numbers on losing teams. Surround him with a real franchise player if you want the team to win like he had in Dallas. Otherwise it's stats on a losing team, nice complimentary player, but dominant? Yea, right.

[kane2021]

If it takes 3 players to stop a player from penetrating and he still makes the All Star team that's dominant. Sorry for you if it's been 8 years since you've watched a dominant player.
TP's better than Harris and the Knicks have neither where does that leave you?

He is supposed to be a PG. Why is he trying to score when triple teamed? Thats not a dominating player thats a ball dominating player.

[NYKnick87]

If it takes 3 players to stop a player from penetrating and he still makes the All Star team that's dominant. Sorry for you if it's been 8 years since you've watched a dominant player.
TP's better than Harris and the Knicks have neither where does that leave you?

gee, I dunno...we did have nearly identical records last year despite experiencing a turnover of our roster during the season...and I know it's preseason, but you guys are 0-6 with 3 of those losses coming from us...so I'd say that leaves us in a nearly identical position if not better..

but you do get to pay DH approx. 9 mil over the next 4 yrs so gl with that!

[omerome]

Teams used 3 defenders to stop him from penetrating and he still put up All star points along with 7 assists, that's dominant for a point guard.
If you put Tony Parker on the Nets it would be the same result it takes more than one good player to make the playoffs.

I'll look at the #s and results realistically and you can fantasize that the Knicks are good how bout that?
Devin Harris was an All Star last year how you believe any of the players on your roster is equal is your opinion. You're wrong but it doesn't matter that much anyway both teams won't be in the playoffs.
If Harris makes the AS team and the Nets don't make the playoffs he's just like Michael Redd.

Damn that was a long time ago Allan Houston had that j that barely touched the rim when it went in.
Good luck this year.

You're making my point for me and you don't even know it.

I don't care if teams put 5 guys on Harris to try and stop him, if he can't lead his team to the playoffs then he's a player that just puts up good stats on a bad team. At least with the Knicks, while we don't have an all-star on our team, at least we know that the reason why we sucked was because of a lack of overall talent.

Results speaks for themselves. Devin Harris is only as good as the team he's playing for. He has talent but it's how you utilize that talent that makes good players, great.

[kamaze]

If it takes 3 players to stop a player from penetrating and he still makes the All Star team that's dominant. Sorry for you if it's been 8 years since you've watched a dominant player.
TP's better than Harris and the Knicks have neither where does that leave you?

He is supposed to be a PG. Why is he trying to score when triple teamed? Thats not a dominating player thats a ball dominating player.

Because it's needed the team needs his scoring he's not a pass first point guard.

gee, I dunno...we did have nearly identical records last year despite experiencing a turnover of our roster during the season...and I know it's preseason, but you guys are 0-6 with 3 of those losses coming from us...so I'd say that leaves us in a nearly identical position if not better..

but you do get to pay DH approx. 9 mil over the next 4 yrs so gl with that!

You're right both teams missed the playoffs last year. How much over the salary cap are they again?

Who cares it's preseason 3rd string players were playing but beat your chest if it makes you feel better.
They're up 20 against Philly with the reg rotation.

[omerome]

If it takes 3 players to stop a player from penetrating and he still makes the All Star team that's dominant. Sorry for you if it's been 8 years since you've watched a dominant player.
TP's better than Harris and the Knicks have neither where does that leave you?

He is supposed to be a PG. Why is he trying to score when triple teamed? Thats not a dominating player thats a ball dominating player.

Because it's needed the team needs his scoring he's not a pass first point guard.

gee, I dunno...we did have nearly identical records last year despite experiencing a turnover of our roster during the season...and I know it's preseason, but you guys are 0-6 with 3 of those losses coming from us...so I'd say that leaves us in a nearly identical position if not better..

but you do get to pay DH approx. 9 mil over the next 4 yrs so gl with that!

You're right both teams missed the playoffs last year. How much over the salary cap are they again?

Who cares it's preseason 3rd string players were playing but beat your chest if it makes you feel better.
They're up 20 against Philly with the reg rotation.

First of all, you're just making up an argument to keep this going. You are bringing in the salary cap for what reason? The salary cap is irrelevant to this thread and next year will be completely irrelevant altogether so what's your point?

Oh and as for the preseason, I'm sure that it was OUR 3rd string players that were beating your guys last game...but hey, it's just preseason - right?

Sorry to tell you that your team is just not that good. We know that our team isn't either but you can't exactly beat your chest to make you feel better....

[kane2021]

If it takes 3 players to stop a player from penetrating and he still makes the All Star team that's dominant. Sorry for you if it's been 8 years since you've watched a dominant player.
TP's better than Harris and the Knicks have neither where does that leave you?

He is supposed to be a PG. Why is he trying to score when triple teamed? Thats not a dominating player thats a ball dominating player.

Because it's needed the team needs his scoring he's not a pass first point guard.

gee, I dunno...we did have nearly identical records last year despite experiencing a turnover of our roster during the season...and I know it's preseason, but you guys are 0-6 with 3 of those losses coming from us...so I'd say that leaves us in a nearly identical position if not better..

but you do get to pay DH approx. 9 mil over the next 4 yrs so gl with that!

You're right both teams missed the playoffs last year. How much over the salary cap are they again?

Who cares it's preseason 3rd string players were playing but beat your chest if it makes you feel better.
They're up 20 against Philly with the reg rotation.

Then that explains why vince carters ppg average went down by 4 the year they got harris. Then another point the year after.

Devin Harris is a better scorer then VC?

The whole point of a PG is to feed the scorer's. Your argument is solid for this years team. But not the prior years. In that case Devin Harris hurt the nets and is directly responsible for there losing record.

And I get nets games here on yes. If the knicks are not playing I will watch the nets if they are on just to get my basketball fix. My analysis of Harris is not just from the 4 games we share a year.

[NyKnicks1714]

1714 makes my point. On a great team he is a 3rd option scorer. And he's really not what you would call a prime time play maker. And he is not a shooter.

He sounds more like 1st option off the bench then a starting PG to a great team. Is it safe to say a player like LBJ would be the primary play maker with harris as a PG?

Is Harris that much a better play maker then moesha williams? Because harris is no where near the shooter. That means on a kick out the ball would have to go right back in or a new play would be run.

Look im not the one to bash no ones team or likes. To be like ahhhhhhhhh you suck. Im not like that. But you cant set up here and say Devin Harris is a great PG prospect. Because he isnt. Already nets fans have admitted he is more of a scorer then a play maker.

But he's not a good enough scorer to lift the team. Not a good enough play maker to take the ball away from a prime time player. And not a good enough shooter to play the arc off the ball. And he is IN his prime years now.

Parkers name has come up a few times. But look at parkers heart? Thats the biggest difference. Im not a parker fan but I take him over harris. And he is only one year older.

He put up numbers and made a AS team. I would dangle him out there. See if he could get you a young package/picks to add to the core while you guys get a arena built and get moved. That could be a 2 year project. Harris will be pushing 30.

A couple of things here. One, people keep saying that Harris can't shoot. His mid-range shot isn't bad at all, it's pretty solid. He doesn't have good range at all but he can knock it down from mid range.

Yes, Tony Parker has heart, but what has Devin Harris done to show you he doesn't? The guy works hard on both ends of the floor. He's an excellent defender and offensively he takes it to the rim time after time. I really don't know why you say he doesn't have heart.

[blueNorange]

devin harris is a shooting guard, stop calling him a point guard.

[kamaze]

First of all, you're just making up an argument to keep this going. You are bringing in the salary cap for what reason? The salary cap is irrelevant to this thread and next year will be completely irrelevant altogether so what's your point?

Oh and as for the preseason, I'm sure that it was OUR 3rd string players that were beating your guys last game...but hey, it's just preseason - right?

Sorry to tell you that your team is just not that good. We know that our team isn't either but you can't exactly beat your chest to make you feel better....

I'm bored I like my team better you like yours the back and forth is going nowhere both teams suck. Only reason I'm replying is to stand up for the Nets.
The salary cap is irrelevant to what core is better but it's a reality check for some of you just like the lotto pick that's going somewhere else next summer.
They spend money like it's toilet paper yet still don't make the playoffs. Doesn't matter to me you have to cheer for them.

Counts as much as a missed 360 dunk.
I know just fun to stomp on the Knicks like a cockroach.

[blueNorange]

ughh go away kamaze.

[omerome]

First of all, you're just making up an argument to keep this going. You are bringing in the salary cap for what reason? The salary cap is irrelevant to this thread and next year will be completely irrelevant altogether so what's your point?

Oh and as for the preseason, I'm sure that it was OUR 3rd string players that were beating your guys last game...but hey, it's just preseason - right?

Sorry to tell you that your team is just not that good. We know that our team isn't either but you can't exactly beat your chest to make you feel better....

I'm bored I like my team better you like yours the back and forth is going nowhere both teams suck. Only reason I'm replying is to stand up for the Nets.
The salary cap is irrelevant to what core is better but it's a reality check for some of you just like the lotto pick that's going somewhere else next summer.
They spend money like it's toilet paper yet still don't make the playoffs. Doesn't matter to me you have to cheer for them.

Counts as much as a missed 360 dunk.
I know just fun to stomp on the Knicks like a cockroach.

...yeah...
Okay...I think you just killed the thread dead. Good job there.

[kane2021]

I will tell you nets fans another thing also. And this is coming from a fan of a team that KNOWS bad press. If ANYTHING dirty comes back on that Russian during this venture it will be international news. Not local. Not national. International.

Already reports claim this guy is a mobster type. With connections.

If you are looking to move a professional sports team from Jersey to Brooklyn the dirty way, why not get a NY mobster and get a clean cover boy. A cover boy that is a house hold name. You would get in less trouble if you get caught. And it would be easier to keep under the rug.

Like.......................JAY-Z maybe?

Self proclaimed gangster/millionaire/king of NY/clean business man, this cat has so many faces and self given titles. But came up short here.

[jeff1624]

One question...

You guys are criticizing Devin because he's more of a scoring guard than a passing guard.. Who exactly is he suppose to pass it to??

Bobby Simmons??
Yi??
Trenton Hassell??
Josh Boone??

Is it really smart to cut down Harris' shot attempts just to hand them out to those guys??