ugkfan2681 wrote:i think lebron stats speak for themselves so why argue the point he is putting up mvp stats.while his team is 21-8 on pace to win close to 60 games again.
Stats are MAYBE 25% of the equation. What about the other 75%?
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ugkfan2681 wrote:i think lebron stats speak for themselves so why argue the point he is putting up mvp stats.while his team is 21-8 on pace to win close to 60 games again.
7foot3 wrote:[
No. There were behind the Hornets, Suns and Spurs. Between Shaq and Pau, the Lakers won about 42 out of every 82 games. Without the big men, they haven't been that good. Does this mean that Kobe isn't having an MVP type season right now? No, but Lebron is shooting at a more efficient rate, pulling down more rebounds more often, and setting up his teammates more often. And as I just demonstrated, the all-star big man is what has pushed the Lakers over the top from mediocre to championship-level. Kobe is having what would normally be an edit*MVP* season, but he hasn't been making the same impact, both as an individual or for his team, as Lebron has.
7foot3 wrote:1.Lakers were 29-16 at the time of the trade, Suns were 33-14.
2. Congrats on just making the playoffs without much help. The Cavs were able to play .500 or a bit better with backcourts including Eric Snow, Ira Newble, Sasha Pavlovic and Larry Hughes. Pau Gasol was an all-star 2 years before being traded, and likely would have been the year before if he didn't get hurt. To suggest people thought he was merely a 'solid big man' is just laughable.
3. Kobe is 14th among 2-guards in rebound rate, Lebron is 10th among 3's.
4. Lebron has a much higher assist rate. And his usage rate is just about the same. Kobe is the one using more possessions without getting his teammates involved.
5. I showed that the Lakers were decent without the all-star big man, and excellent with one.
6. Complete throwaway line. I can say most people agree that Lebron is the best player in the game with as much proof.
Look, I get that Kobe is having an excellent year, the type that would frequently win a MVP. But Lebron is too. And he's doing it with just a bit more efficient numbers, and he's done it in the past more efficiently as well.
and I'm done here, as we certainly are going to violate the ToS very soon, if not already. I should have just left it after pointing out the Lakers ~.500 record between Shaq and Gasol.
YLSKillaCam wrote:Lebron had an extremely impressive MVP performance tonight.
Jennings09 wrote:JimMurray wrote:No it isn't. If that's the case, give the MVP to Joe Johnson. What he's doing with the Hawks is more impressive than Lebron's doing with the Cavs.
Hey I've seen some nice posts by you in this thread and I agree right now Kobe is the MVP. What he is doing with the Lakers right now is phenominal, but this is the worst post I've seen.
7foot3 wrote:YLSKillaCam wrote:
1. Lakers were #1 in the West prior to Gasol coming to the Lakers.
2. The Lakers were a playoff team with Kwame Brown, Smush Parker & Brian Cook starting. When Pau got to the Lakers, he wasn't considered more than just a solid big man. Now people call him the best PF in the league. Wonders what playing with Bryant can do for you.
3. Kobe's rebounding at his position is better than Lebron's at his position.
4. There's absolutely no proof that Lebron sets up his teammates more often; there is proof that Lebron hogs the ball more often than Kobe, however (USG%)
5. You demonstrated nothing.
6. Kobe is not just playing at an all star level, he's the best player in the game right now...and most people would agree that this season, Kobe's been flat out better than Lebron.
7. Impact? When Kobe's off the court Lakers get outscored by 6.7 points. When he's on the court his team outscores the opponent by 13.1 points. When James is off the court, the Cavs are only outscored by 6.0 points per game. When James is on the court, his team only outscores the other team by 8.6 points per game. Kobe's impact is clearly greater this season. Note that these two produce the most for their teams, so don't try to act like Artest or Varejao's impact is greater than these two for their teams.
1.Lakers were 29-16 at the time of the trade, Suns were 33-14.
2. Congrats on just making the playoffs without much help. The Cavs were able to play .500 or a bit better with backcourts including Eric Snow, Ira Newble, Sasha Pavlovic and Larry Hughes. Pau Gasol was an all-star 2 years before being traded, and likely would have been the year before if he didn't get hurt. To suggest people thought he was merely a 'solid big man' is just laughable.
3. Kobe is 14th among 2-guards in rebound rate, Lebron is 10th among 3's.
4. Lebron has a much higher assist rate. And his usage rate is just about the same. Kobe is the one using more possessions without getting his teammates involved.
5. I showed that the Lakers were decent without the all-star big man, and excellent with one.
6. Complete throwaway line. I can say most people agree that Lebron is the best player in the game with as much proof.
7. The fact that Artest and Varejao are leading their teams in those categories right now shows that we may have some sample size issues. Lebron has dominated Kobe in this category over the longer sample, the last few years.
Look, I get that Kobe is having an excellent year, the type that would frequently win a MVP. But Lebron is too. And he's doing it with just a bit more efficient numbers, and he's done it in the past more efficiently as well.
and I'm done here, as we certainly are going to violate the ToS very soon, if not already. I should have just left it after pointing out the Lakers ~.500 record between Shaq and Gasol.
GriffMoney_1984 wrote:threads like these are absolutely useless
90% of the time the mvp is just the player with the best stats out of the 2 confrence #1 records
if boston stays #1 in the east. kobe easly wins mvp
NYK 455 wrote:If the Cavs have a record remotely comparable to the Lakers by the end of the season, LeBron will win the MVP. If the Lakers win 10 games or more, Kobe will win it. Personally, LeBron is the MVP in my opinion. He surpassed Kobe as a player a while ago, he wins with far less talent, and is more valuable to his teams success.
richboy wrote:
I could never say that about KG. Even though he is a great player. In some way even in his prime he is Joakim Noah with a jump shot and a little better post game. Outside of that they have the exact same skill set.
7foot3 wrote:YLSKillaCam wrote:
1. Lakers were #1 in the West prior to Gasol coming to the Lakers.
2. The Lakers were a playoff team with Kwame Brown, Smush Parker & Brian Cook starting. When Pau got to the Lakers, he wasn't considered more than just a solid big man. Now people call him the best PF in the league. Wonders what playing with Bryant can do for you.
3. Kobe's rebounding at his position is better than Lebron's at his position.
4. There's absolutely no proof that Lebron sets up his teammates more often; there is proof that Lebron hogs the ball more often than Kobe, however (USG%)
5. You demonstrated nothing.
6. Kobe is not just playing at an all star level, he's the best player in the game right now...and most people would agree that this season, Kobe's been flat out better than Lebron.
7. Impact? When Kobe's off the court Lakers get outscored by 6.7 points. When he's on the court his team outscores the opponent by 13.1 points. When James is off the court, the Cavs are only outscored by 6.0 points per game. When James is on the court, his team only outscores the other team by 8.6 points per game. Kobe's impact is clearly greater this season. Note that these two produce the most for their teams, so don't try to act like Artest or Varejao's impact is greater than these two for their teams.
1.Lakers were 29-16 at the time of the trade, Suns were 33-14.
Were they not the number one seed before getting Pau and Bynum getting injured?
2. Congrats on just making the playoffs without much help. The Cavs were able to play .500 or a bit better with backcourts including Eric Snow, Ira Newble, Sasha Pavlovic and Larry Hughes. Pau Gasol was an all-star 2 years before being traded, and likely would have been the year before if he didn't get hurt. To suggest people thought he was merely a 'solid big man' is just laughable.
GriffMoney_1984 wrote:you obviously dont know the history of the award
90% of mvps in nba history were on #1 seeds
lebron having 2 more rebounds and assists wont make a difference.
its not a statistical award. its just a "best player on the best team" award
always has been always will be. the award is basically meaningless.
Shot Clock wrote:GriffMoney_1984 wrote:you obviously dont know the history of the award
90% of mvps in nba history were on #1 seeds
lebron having 2 more rebounds and assists wont make a difference.
its not a statistical award. its just a "best player on the best team" award
always has been always will be. the award is basically meaningless.
Really? I took a quick look back and found about 9 of the last 20 or so winners were not on the best team in the league.
best teams
Kobe's MVP - nope
Garnett's - nope
1 of Nash's - nope
1 of Duncan's - nope
Iverson's - nope
That's 5 out of the last 10. You sounded real authoritative though...
Jennings09 wrote:GriffMoney_1984 wrote:threads like these are absolutely useless
90% of the time the mvp is just the player with the best stats out of the 2 confrence #1 records
if boston stays #1 in the east. kobe easly wins mvp
Yea Cavs are going to have to win the east for Lebron to have a good shot.
wone wrote:Anyone who thought that stealing Gasol from Memphis wouldn't have made LA contenders doesn't know a thing about basketball period...
Bgil wrote:wone wrote:Anyone who thought that stealing Gasol from Memphis wouldn't have made LA contenders doesn't know a thing about basketball period...
Well....
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=757392&start=0
viewtopic.php?p=15339202#15339202
Oh yeah, Realgm ranking Pau 7th among PF's in 2006:
http://realgm.com/src_feature/679/20060 ... _forwards/