The Javale McGee Appreciation Thread

[hands11]

I am thinking some of it is the Haywood effect. Wizards fans are used to really good post defense from the center spot. I watched the Memphis-New York game a few nights after we played each club and Gasol imparted a very similar dollop of destruction onto an exasperated David Lee (yes, said buttress of interior defense, I know).

At least for me it's certainly not the Haywood effect. It's watching a kid struggle with some pretty fundamental things on defense.

Losing your man, getting completely turned around, poor footwork and positioning, not boxing out, getting lost in no-mans-land on rotations, there's just so much fail that it's hard to remain patient.

After 1.5 years in this league I'd expect to see more out of the guy than grandstanding and his ridiculous salutes every time he gets a dunk.

Early on, Haywood looked lost also.

Hands of stone. Poor footwork. Didn't finish strong and brought the ball down to low so it got stolen. Traveled a lot. Could dribble well. Got blown by and dunked over. Couldn't shoot free throws. Had no post moves and people said he was a black hole if you passed him the ball. And he was said to not bring it consistently. Poor motor. To soft. He was nick named Brenda and most wanted him gone.

But Haywood put in the work. He found the weight room. He learned to keep the ball high. He learned a post move or two. His footwork got better and he became a great defender. And then he got his FT shooting going.

It took time but with hard work, he turned himself into a force.

I think McGee will start off developing a much better offensive game than Haywood. He is a much more athletic big then Haywood was. Better raw materials.

We will see a lot of growth from McGee between now and the end of the year. Then like Dray and like Haywood did, he will need to put in the work.

Only question for me right now is how much growth can he get done this year. We aren't going to see consistency this year so just look for higher highs and not so low of lows. Just like a good stock.

[mhd]

Hands, Haywood was a very solid center by his 2nd year as SecretWeapon said. I remeber Danny Ainge saying he'd rather have Kwame+Haywood than Curry+Chandler (funny how Haywood turned out the best player of the four).

McGee is the worst defensive big I've ever seen. He can guard centers.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Hands, Haywood was a very solid center by his 2nd year as SecretWeapon said. I remeber Danny Ainge saying he'd rather have Kwame+Haywood than Curry+Chandler (funny how Haywood turned out the best player of the four).

McGee is the worst defensive big I've ever seen. He can guard centers.

I think McGee's a tall forward. If not for his height he wouldn't be considered a C.

[no D in Hibachi]

Hands, Haywood was a very solid center by his 2nd year as SecretWeapon said. I remeber Danny Ainge saying he'd rather have Kwame+Haywood than Curry+Chandler (funny how Haywood turned out the best player of the four).

McGee is the worst defensive big I've ever seen. He can guard centers.

Yeah, TSW provided McGees counterpart PER of 29.0 and I nearly s'd my pants. That's MJ in his prime everynight against the Wiz. Amazing how someone as physically gifted as McGee gives up so much to the opposition.

[hands11]

Hands, Haywood was a very solid center by his 2nd year as SecretWeapon said. I remeber Danny Ainge saying he'd rather have Kwame+Haywood than Curry+Chandler (funny how Haywood turned out the best player of the four).

McGee is the worst defensive big I've ever seen. He can guard centers.

Hey, I was always a Haywood fan and never wanted to trade him but he did do those things.

[hands11]

Hands, Haywood was a very solid center by his 2nd year as SecretWeapon said. I remeber Danny Ainge saying he'd rather have Kwame+Haywood than Curry+Chandler (funny how Haywood turned out the best player of the four).

McGee is the worst defensive big I've ever seen. He can guard centers.

I think McGee's a tall forward. If not for his height he wouldn't be considered a C.

We see the same things there. Would have been an interesting way to go and it still could end up that way.

We did the same thing to Blatche and we did the same things to Kwame. I would even say same to Etan. They were all PFs.

Only real center we have had is Haywood. We have been short on PGs and Centers for years. That's a big reason I wanted to have to core be Haywood, Blatche and McGee. Those were my unmovable players.

[TheSecretWeapon]

One problem with McGee at forward is his inaccurate jumper. He's 2-21 from beyond 10 feet so far this season. Worse, I haven't seen anything to indicate he'll be more successful defending PFs than Cs.

McGee has the physical potential to be a PF. He also has the physical potential to be a terrific C. Really, he's close enough to a blank slate that he could end up being a great PF or C, or he could end up being worth very little.

[pancakes3]

I really don't think a jumper is necessary for a PF. Granted the league today is flooded with jumpshooting big men, but there have been plenty of PFs in the modern game who excelled without a jumper. Ben Wallace. Oakley (6'8), Josh Smith, Shawn Kemp, Jayson Williams, heck even Shawn Marion.

not that i expect McGee to have the defensive impact of those guys, but if McGee can do what is natural for him - run the break, snag boards, block shots, and keep his opponent PER to AT LEAST 15, then he could step in as a starting PF no problem.

[queridiculo]

Out of the PFs you mention there's exactly one that I would agree with not having a jumper and that's Ben Wallace.

Oakley was automatic from 15 feet, Shawn Kemp had nice midrange game, Josh Smith definitely has a nice face up game, and even Shawn Marion can knock down midrange jumpers with a semblance of consistency.

I think you're way off the mark with your comparison there. PFs without a jumpshot that excel in the league are the exception not the rule.

[TheSecretWeapon]

A jumper isn't essential for a PF, but the way the game is going, I think it's becoming more important than ever.

The names you mention are interesting. I always think of Ben Wallace as a center, not a PF. As hermitkid pointed out, Oakley was a good jump shooter -- with range out to the college 3. Shawn Marion is a career 33.5% 3pt shooter with 2001 3pt attempts.

Josh Smith is a guy playing successfully at PF without much of a jump shot. But, Smith is a strong defender and solid rebounder. McGee is a horrific defender and isn't much on the boards this season. Smith also has a pretty good feel for the game -- he's a good passer, for example. And Smith is an effective scorer in the paint. McGee is a good dunker when someone sets him up or he can get a putback. His "moves" inside are atrocious.

Kinda interesting actually to look at Smith's 2nd season vs. McGee's. Smith played a TON more minutes, of course. Other than that, their numbers are pretty comparable. PER about the same. McGee is shooting a better percentage from the floor than Smith did, but Smith was much better from the FT line. Smith was FAR better on the defensive glass and was the much better passer. McGee has the lead in shot blocking. I don't mean this as encouragement or a hopeful sign -- Smith is a 6-9 forward who was drifting between PF and SF during his 2nd season (110 3pt attempts that season; 152 the following year). McGee has played just center.

To your point about McGee doing "what's natural" for him. If he runs the break, grabs rebounds, and blocks shots with any kind of effectiveness, why would the team not be better served by having him do it at center? To use him at PF, they'd need to go out and get a center. And good centers are tougher to get than a good PF. Nah, my view is that the Wiz should leave him at center until/unless he shows them through his play that he a) can handle playing PF, and b) that it would make the team better to have him at PF.

[GhostsOfGil]

Hands, Haywood was a very solid center by his 2nd year as SecretWeapon said. I remeber Danny Ainge saying he'd rather have Kwame+Haywood than Curry+Chandler (funny how Haywood turned out the best player of the four).

McGee is the worst defensive big I've ever seen. He can guard centers.

Yeah, TSW provided McGees counterpart PER of 29.0 and I nearly s'd my pants. That's MJ in his prime everynight against the Wiz. Amazing how someone as physically gifted as McGee gives up so much to the opposition.

[Ruzious]

Plus, you want him at center near the basket because he doesn't need a whole lot of skills to score there - due to his length and athleticism, and defensively - he's got more opportunities to block shots. Take advantage of his natural strengths.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

One problem with McGee at forward is his inaccurate jumper. He's 2-21 from beyond 10 feet so far this season. Worse, I haven't seen anything to indicate he'll be more successful defending PFs than Cs.

McGee has the physical potential to be a PF. He also has the physical potential to be a terrific C. Really, he's close enough to a blank slate that he could end up being a great PF or C, or he could end up being worth very little.

I agree with every word, TSW.

I believe he is very capable on the jumper but is pressing. I've seen him make it in preseason, but it needs work.

[hands11]

One problem with McGee at forward is his inaccurate jumper. He's 2-21 from beyond 10 feet so far this season. Worse, I haven't seen anything to indicate he'll be more successful defending PFs than Cs.

McGee has the physical potential to be a PF. He also has the physical potential to be a terrific C. Really, he's close enough to a blank slate that he could end up being a great PF or C, or he could end up being worth very little.

That's our boy.

But he won't get to develop as a PF as long as we don't have enough centers and if he wants to start, the opening is at center not PF. Same story. Different year.

I thought is would be easier for him to develop as a PF first. He wouldn't have to play center field as last line of defense like center requires and it would play to his speed and length more. Plus, I think he would be more mentality into the game since I think he would have more fun as a PF. I think the shot would improve with the minutes and attempts.

But your right, he could play either position. A good summer of hitting the weights and some Beefcakes 2000 should help he to develop more next year. I will expect more from him as a third year player.

BEEFCAKES BEEFCAKES

[dobrojim]

my 0.02


on D, he should be a C

on offense he needs a semi-reliable jumper whichever position
you want to play him at. He doesn't need to be Bill Laimbeer,
but he better not be Ben Wallace either.

Actually the shot/move he should perfect is the sky hook.
Too bad Kareem is on the other coast working for another franchise.

[TheSecretWeapon]

McGee doesn't need someone to teach him the sky hook. If he wants a sky hook, he needs to get his butt in the gym and start shooting them. I taught it to myself during down moments at a basketball camp back in high school. I still break it out now and then in church league, and it's still a great weapon. Shoot, it's unblockable coming from me, and I'm old. Coming from someone with McGee's physical tools it'd be a devastating weapon.

[no D in Hibachi]

McGee doesn't need someone to teach him the sky hook. If he wants a sky hook, he needs to get his butt in the gym and start shooting them. I taught it to myself during down moments at a basketball camp back in high school. I still break it out now and then in church league, and it's still a great weapon. Shoot, it's unblockable coming from me, and I'm old. Coming from someone with McGee's physical tools it'd be a devastating weapon.

Ha, church league basketball games. The only fight that begins with a prayer.

[hands11]

McGee doesn't need someone to teach him the sky hook. If he wants a sky hook, he needs to get his butt in the gym and start shooting them. I taught it to myself during down moments at a basketball camp back in high school. I still break it out now and then in church league, and it's still a great weapon. Shoot, it's unblockable coming from me, and I'm old. Coming from someone with McGee's physical tools it'd be a devastating weapon.

He whipped out a shy hook the other day and it looked pretty awesome. That would be a great move for him to develop. It would be unstoppable.

The kids length and athleticism does may we dream of better days though. Defiantly a keeper.

So we have two pieces that should be here for years. Dray and McGee. Not a bad start if your rebuilding. Add a top draft pick and things aren't looking so bad. Plus Singleton is an upgrade over DMAC. Another nice little piece.

We are getting there. It's a rebuild. Just looking for long term pieces right now. If we aren't locked into any bad long term contract, we will be able to fill in the missing pieces.

[likwitdesi]

McGee doesn't need someone to teach him the sky hook. If he wants a sky hook, he needs to get his butt in the gym and start shooting them. I taught it to myself during down moments at a basketball camp back in high school. I still break it out now and then in church league, and it's still a great weapon. Shoot, it's unblockable coming from me, and I'm old. Coming from someone with McGee's physical tools it'd be a devastating weapon.

He whipped out a shy hook the other day and it looked pretty awesome. That would be a great move for him to develop. It would be unstoppable.

The kids length and athleticism does may we dream of better days though. Defiantly a keeper.

So we have two pieces that should be here for years. Dray and McGee. Not a bad start if your rebuilding. Add a top draft pick and things aren't looking so bad. Plus Singleton is an upgrade over DMAC. Another nice little piece.

We are getting there. It's a rebuild. Just looking for long term pieces right now. If we aren't locked into any bad long term contract, we will be able to fill in the missing pieces.

Is Singleton really someone we should keep around though? He misses every jumper I've seen him shoot.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Singleton's a guy that Flip will surely start over McGee at some point.