Where does Kobe rank All-Time with another Repeat?

[kasino]

Well here is why Kobe gets so much credit.
Shaq had 7 years in the league(3 with the Lakers) b4 he won a title.
Not saying he wouldn't have won a title but he didn't. It only came after Kobe was an starter and all-star. Please remember he played behind good players Van-Excel and Eddie Jones.

For the 1st ring in his 4th season Kobe was 1 of 3 Lakers in double-digits the next player behind his playoff 21/4/4 was Glen Rice's 12/4/2.

The next ring 1 of 4 in double-digits. He moved his overall production up 29/7/6 the next options were Derrick Fisher(13/3/3) and Rick Fox(10/4/3).

The last ring again 1 of 3 Lakers in double-digits. He posted 26/5/5 next to Fishers 10/3/3
During this time Kobe was the Lakers leader in assist, best defender and best closer.

It is clear that the 3peat Lakers were Shaq/Kobe dominating the league.

[Gongxi]

Well here is why Kobe gets so much credit.
Shaq had 7 years in the league(3 with the Lakers) b4 he won a title.

Do you think you should look at his health and his competition at all?

I seriously don't know why I bother with you people.

[kasino]

Well here is why Kobe gets so much credit.
Shaq had 7 years in the league(3 with the Lakers) b4 he won a title.

Do you think you should look at his health and his competition at all?

I seriously don't know why I bother with you people.

b4 I write can you make it clear what your asking?
are you asking about the competition Shaq had to go through in Orlando?
are you asking about his injuries do you mean 95-96?

did you read my post? I think its simple and informative.

[semi-sentient]

Just out of curiosity, what would Kobe's numbers have looked like from 2005-06 through 2007-08 if adjusted for pace using the years that Bird had his 3-year peak?

Anyone?

[Gongxi]

Well here is why Kobe gets so much credit.
Shaq had 7 years in the league(3 with the Lakers) b4 he won a title.

Do you think you should look at his health and his competition at all?

I seriously don't know why I bother with you people.

b4 I write can you make it clear what your asking?
are you asking about the competition Shaq had to go through in Orlando?
are you asking about his injuries do you mean 95-96?

did you read my post? I think its simple and informative.

I really did type something out. It had to do with Shaq's injuries throughout the mid 90s, his great successes with Penny, his amazing dominance, etc, and then contrasted that with Kobe, who came into his own while playing with this all-time great. But why bother? You don't care. You want Kobe to "win" these arguments and that's all. You don't come into them thinking "I'm going to be objective here" you come into it saying "How can I best argue for Kobe?"

So what does it matter?

[An Unbiased Fan]

Again, what rationale is there for Kobe to be above Duncan and Shaq with a 5th title? Saying that he will have more rings than both of them has never been a good argument because his role during the 3 peat was less than both Shaq and Duncan. Shaq and Duncan has spearheaded their team for 11 years, Shaq has been a good second option for two years, and Duncan is just entering that phase. Kobe has been a better second option than old Shaq and Duncan, but has only led his team as the best player for 6 years. That 5 year of difference cannot simply be made up with another ring because there is no evidence to suggest the young Kobe can win with a run of the mill allstar center back then like he does now.

8 time All-NBA 1st team
8 time All-Defense 1st team
7 Finals
5 Rings
Top 3 HCA efficiency ever

Kobe would have a very compelling case.

[An Unbiased Fan]

b4 I write can you make it clear what your asking?
are you asking about the competition Shaq had to go through in Orlando?
are you asking about his injuries do you mean 95-96?

did you read my post? I think its simple and informative.

I really did type something out. It had to do with Shaq's injuries throughout the mid 90s, his great successes with Penny, his amazing dominance, etc, and then contrasted that with Kobe, who came into his own while playing with this all-time great. But why bother? You don't care. You want Kobe to "win" these arguments and that's all. You don't come into them thinking "I'm going to be objective here" you come into it saying "How can I best argue for Kobe?"

So what does it matter?

Great success with Penny??? Shaq had the best supporting cast in 95' and got swept out of the Finals by a lesser squad and with HCA.

Amazing dominance??? Shaq was never 1st team in the mid 90's, and 2nd team once(1995).

Contrast with Kobe? When Kobe became a fulltime starter.....LA won the title and ended up with 6 Finals and 4 rings in 10 years. This could soon be 7 Finals & 5 rings in 11 years. Kobe is on the verge of 3 straight Finals appearance WITHOUT Shaq, and back to back titles.

[Vincent 666]

Kobe can't lead a team without Shaq!

Kobe cant win without Shaq!

Kobe is the best one on one player whos allowed to go one on one because of Shaq!

[Vincent 666]

han Hakeem and Shaq when it's blatantly obvious that Kobe has never spearheaded a championship effort or even an elite team effort in the fashion that Hakeem and Shaq have is hard to conceive as anythings other than outright 'Homer-ism'/'favoritism'.

.

Kobe has already lead his team to a championship with less talent than Shaq ever did.

[kasino]

I really did type something out. It had to do with Shaq's injuries throughout the mid 90s, his great successes with Penny, his amazing dominance, etc, and then contrasted that with Kobe, who came into his own while playing with this all-time great. But why bother? You don't care. You want Kobe to "win" these arguments and that's all. You don't come into them thinking "I'm going to be objective here" you come into it saying "How can I best argue for Kobe?"

So what does it matter?

But in your mind Kobe is the inferior player and always well be. I never doubted Shaq's greatness but just wanted to make somethings clear.
You say his injures in the 90's well you mean 95-96 were he missed 28 games yet his team still finished with a great record 60-22.
Yes he had a great run with Penny. 1st round sweep/Finals sweep/ECF sweep
Yes Shaq was dominate and you really can't take nothing from that but wasn't winning.
Its really similar to KAJ and Magic.

Those Lakers weren't even as balanced as the Showtime who had great 3-5 options. It was truly just Shaq/Kobe.

All I'm saying Kobe gets as much credit as KAJ/Magic for those rings.

So his career is on the level with Shaq/Duncan and if he wins this ring I think he seperates from Shaq/Duncan to go with Bird/Magic.

[Gongxi]

Of course in my mind Kobe is an inferior player to Shaq and always will be. Why? Because he simply was never as good as Shaq was, his longevity at this point is only comparable to Shaq- not better than- and he's declining as a player which means if he hasn't been better yet, there's really no chance he will be in the future unless he goes all Barry Bonds on us.

I'm sorry, but the only people that think Kobe Bryant is better than Shaquille O'Neal are Laker fans. What does that tell you?

[NYKnick87]

Top 15-20

[Vincent 666]

Around 6th.

[kasino]

Of course in my mind Kobe is an inferior player to Shaq and always will be. Why? Because he simply was never as good as Shaq was, his longevity at this point is only comparable to Shaq- not better than- and he's declining as a player which means if he hasn't been better yet, there's really no chance he will be in the future unless he goes all Barry Bonds on us.

I'm sorry, but the only people that think Kobe Bryant is better than Shaquille O'Neal are Laker fans. What does that tell you?

Well your being close minded talking about me.
did you read anything I posted?

I don't know what the future holds for Kobe but at this moment on level with Shaq/Duncan and if he keeps winning....oh boy

[poopdamoop]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but it's interesting to look at the retro player of the year votes here. Kobe hasn't won any of them, but has been in the top 5 in almost every year. In that regard, he's a bit like Stockton in terms of all time rankings, imo. Sustained dominance, but never head and shoulders above his peers. I've no problem with him in the top 10, but it's hard to say he's any higher if he's never totally been the best player in the league.

[Gongxi]

Of course in my mind Kobe is an inferior player to Shaq and always will be. Why? Because he simply was never as good as Shaq was, his longevity at this point is only comparable to Shaq- not better than- and he's declining as a player which means if he hasn't been better yet, there's really no chance he will be in the future unless he goes all Barry Bonds on us.

I'm sorry, but the only people that think Kobe Bryant is better than Shaquille O'Neal are Laker fans. What does that tell you?

Well your being close minded talking about me.
did you read anything I posted?

I don't know what the future holds for Kobe but at this moment on level with Shaq/Duncan and if he keeps winning....oh boy

I give up. If you really think Kobe is on the Shaq/Duncan level...I just give up. I give up on you.

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but it's interesting to look at the retro player of the year votes here. Kobe hasn't won any of them, but has been in the top 5 in almost every year. In that regard, he's a bit like Stockton in terms of all time rankings, imo. Sustained dominance, but never head and shoulders above his peers. I've no problem with him in the top 10, but it's hard to say he's any higher if he's never totally been the best player in the league.

Yeah, that's the rub right there.

[kasino]

Of course in my mind Kobe is an inferior player to Shaq and always will be. Why? Because he simply was never as good as Shaq was, his longevity at this point is only comparable to Shaq- not better than- and he's declining as a player which means if he hasn't been better yet, there's really no chance he will be in the future unless he goes all Barry Bonds on us.

I'm sorry, but the only people that think Kobe Bryant is better than Shaquille O'Neal are Laker fans. What does that tell you?

Well your being close minded talking about me.
did you read anything I posted?

I don't know what the future holds for Kobe but at this moment on level with Shaq/Duncan and if he keeps winning....oh boy

I give up. If you really think Kobe is on the Shaq/Duncan level...I just give up. I give up on you.

you give up because you lost.

[Vincent 666]

lol at anyone trying to argue that Kobe vs Shaq/Duncan isnt even debatable.

[doremi]

There needs to be a stickied thread outlining the criteria in comparing/ranking players.

[Wile E. Coyote]

There are only two guys in league history who have won NBA titles 10+ years apart in their career and averaged 35+ minutes per game in those years.

Bill Russell
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

If Kobe wins this year, he'll be the third.