Code: Select all
year PPG TS% APG TOV
Penny 00 21.4 0.57 5.6 2.2
Reggie 00 24.3 0.59 3.7 1.3
he has no business getting any credit for defense with these guys exploding against the Lakers in the playoffs.
Moderators: trex_8063, penbeast0, PaulieWal, Clyde Frazier, Doctor MJ
Code: Select all
year PPG TS% APG TOV
Penny 00 21.4 0.57 5.6 2.2
Reggie 00 24.3 0.59 3.7 1.3
Quotatious wrote: Bastillon is Hakeem. Combines style and substance.
sp6r=underrated wrote:A: Kobe
B: KG
C: Duncan
D: Wade
F: Dirk
G: Lebron
How did I do?
ElGee wrote:First of all, he didn't play poorly for 2/3 of the series. And he wasn't "awful" in game 6 (Bastillon). The 9 turnovers certainly nullified a fantastic game, but that didn't make the game awful. It was better than nearly every Kobe Bryant playoff game in 2010.
ElGee wrote:Secondly, in the words of Mark Jackson, you're better than that Sedale. The Celtics were 23-5 out of the gates before chemistry and injury severely derailed their season. When healthy, from 2008-2010 that group has played around 65-win basketball, and they brought back elite -- no, super-elite -- defense in the final few games. It's inaccurate to depict this as a JordanBullsian situation of a superior team crumbling against an inferior opponent, when it was quite clear from the opening game of the series that Boston absolutely dominated Cleveland in personnel (players 2-7), on the defensive end and in coaching.
Mike Brown's bizarre rotations -- Shaquille O'Neal logging so many minutes, Anderson Varejao logging so few, West and Z coming and going, leaving Mo Williams on Rondo for so long -- didn't affect how LeBron played as an individual, but they did play a role in Cleveland losing, which everyone seems to want to blame LeBron for. Antwan Jamison and Mo WIlliams, who were guarding arguably the two best Celtics all series, were absolutely horrible defensively. Again, shifting all of this blame to LeBron is bizarre.
ElGee wrote:As for James, he was one of the best defensive players in the series (and has been one of the best defensive players in the playoffs). Anyone who's done analysis of the ~484 possessions he played in the series would see that his man converts at an extremely low rate, he completely flummoxed Paul Pierce (I think I mentioned this in the 08 thread), he created nearly an extra turnover per game not captured in the box, he committed very few shooting fouls, made a handful of defensive errors, had a number of blocks on layups/close shots, added nearly 8 defensive rebounds per game and over 2 steals per game.
Offensively, outside of the box score numbers, he drew 47 fouls (Rondo was second in the series with 28), he created offense for teammates 40 times -- that is, the number of times the defense collapsed on him and a teammate ended up with an open look because of it. Rondo was second again with 29 occurrences.
Rondo's game 3 was a little better than James game 6, mostly because of turnovers. But the games were quite similar and the fact that Rondo's is lauded as historic while people, including someone in this thread, literally called James' "awful" is flabbergasting, to say the least.
semi-sentient wrote:Corrections made, thanks. I try to be as careful as possible when I'm inputting the results, but stuff happens.
mysticbb wrote:sp6r=underrated wrote:A: Kobe
B: KG
C: Duncan
D: Wade
F: Dirk
G: Lebron
How did I do?
Not bad, you need to switch KG and Duncan, everyone else is correct. Massive numbers for James, but with rather low efficiency. Garnett had always problems to score efficient, that shows up in the numbers too. Nowitzki as the only one with a winning record.
If we take Bryant's first two games out, because he wasn't even a starter at this time, it becomes 24.1/6.4/4.0 on 51.1 ts% and 10.6 to-r. The record for him would be 5-6.
mysticbb wrote:sp6r=underrated wrote:A: Kobe
B: KG
C: Duncan
D: Wade
F: Dirk
G: Lebron
How did I do?
Not bad, you need to switch KG and Duncan, everyone else is correct. Massive numbers for James, but with rather low efficiency. Garnett had always problems to score efficient, that shows up in the numbers too. Nowitzki as the only one with a winning record.
If we take Bryant's first two games out, because he wasn't even a starter at this time, it becomes 24.1/6.4/4.0 on 51.1 ts% and 10.6 to-r. The record for him would be 5-6.
An Unbiased Fan wrote:NO-KG-AI wrote:I can't see any way Jordan doesn't grade out much higher than any of these guys, he's going to be 1 for almost every year, unless you are being a stubborn hater.
Based on the logic used on certain players in the 00' years, I don't see how MJ can pass Duncan in the 90's.
For example, in 1998 should MJ be over Shaq? Shaq(28.8) had a higher PER than MJ(25.2). Shaq has a 31.0 PER in the playoffs, as compared to MJ 28.1.
Silver Bullet wrote:mysticbb wrote:sp6r=underrated wrote:A: Kobe
B: KG
C: Duncan
D: Wade
F: Dirk
G: Lebron
How did I do?
Not bad, you need to switch KG and Duncan, everyone else is correct. Massive numbers for James, but with rather low efficiency. Garnett had always problems to score efficient, that shows up in the numbers too. Nowitzki as the only one with a winning record.
If we take Bryant's first two games out, because he wasn't even a starter at this time, it becomes 24.1/6.4/4.0 on 51.1 ts% and 10.6 to-r. The record for him would be 5-6.
ahhhhh - I knew C was KG as soon as I saw it - 49% TS% in elimination games, that can only be KG.
Code: Select all
MPG PPG TS% APG TOV RPG BPG SPG
Malone 39.2 23.8 0.53 4.0 2.6 8.2 0.8 0.8
Garnett 42.8 18.8 0.44 8.8 2.8 10.8 0.8 1.3
Code: Select all
MPG PPG TS% APG TOV RPG BPG SPG
Malone 39.2 23.8 0.53 4.0 2.6 8.2 0.8 0.8
Garnett 42.8 18.8 0.44 8.8 2.8 10.8 0.8 1.3
Shaq 45.7 25.9 0.55 4.3 2.7 12.4 1.9 0.1
Kobe 43.1 20.4 0.55 5.9 2.9 4.9 2.1 1.6
Quotatious wrote: Bastillon is Hakeem. Combines style and substance.
sp6r=underrated wrote:Silver Bullet wrote:mysticbb wrote:
Not bad, you need to switch KG and Duncan, everyone else is correct. Massive numbers for James, but with rather low efficiency. Garnett had always problems to score efficient, that shows up in the numbers too. Nowitzki as the only one with a winning record.
If we take Bryant's first two games out, because he wasn't even a starter at this time, it becomes 24.1/6.4/4.0 on 51.1 ts% and 10.6 to-r. The record for him would be 5-6.
ahhhhh - I knew C was KG as soon as I saw it - 49% TS% in elimination games, that can only be KG.
ahhhhh - I knew SB would ignore all KG does right in elimination games 13rpg, 5apg, and focus on the negatives.
Silver Bullet wrote:I'll keep this in mind when we get to 95 -
bastillon wrote:I copied that, it's more comfortable to work with that way. I hope you don't mind. I wonder where Kobe's defense was though.Code: Select all
year PPG TS% APG TOV
Penny 00 21.4 0.57 5.6 2.2
Reggie 00 24.3 0.59 3.7 1.3
he has no business getting any credit for defense with these guys exploding against the Lakers in the playoffs.
bastillon wrote:
Blazers are a good comparison overall, because they played with 4 of the favorites:Code: Select all
MPG PPG TS% APG TOV RPG BPG SPG
Malone 39.2 23.8 0.53 4.0 2.6 8.2 0.8 0.8
Garnett 42.8 18.8 0.44 8.8 2.8 10.8 0.8 1.3
Shaq 45.7 25.9 0.55 4.3 2.7 12.4 1.9 0.1
Kobe 43.1 20.4 0.55 5.9 2.9 4.9 2.1 1.6
Kobe is clearly dead-last, but that puts Garnett's PS in different light overall. Blazers were great.
sp6r=underrated wrote:Silver Bullet wrote:I'll keep this in mind when we get to 95 -
I'm actually open to persuasion on Shaq-Hakeem.
If you want my vote you have to sell me on one of the following arguments
Argument 1. Hakeem only marginally outplayed Shaq in the finals, but that doesn't make up for the fact: (i) Shaq had a significantly better RS. (ii) Shaq was significantly better in the conference playoffs than Hakeem was in his.
Argument 2. Shaq outplayed Hakeem in the finals, but his team was swept because (I) the magic supporting cast was significantly worse in the finals than the rockets supporting cast.
How is Kobe dead-last when he has a 55% TS as compared to KG's horrible 44% TS???? Didn't Webber get dropped off nearly every list because of his bad TS% in 2001?
1) Kobe didn't guard Penny
2) Reggie Miller's shooting in the 2000 NBA Finals
Quotatious wrote: Bastillon is Hakeem. Combines style and substance.
Silver Bullet wrote:sp6r=underrated wrote:Silver Bullet wrote:I'll keep this in mind when we get to 95 -
I'm actually open to persuasion on Shaq-Hakeem.
If you want my vote you have to sell me on one of the following arguments
Argument 1. Hakeem only marginally outplayed Shaq in the finals, but that doesn't make up for the fact: (i) Shaq had a significantly better RS. (ii) Shaq was significantly better in the conference playoffs than Hakeem was in his.
Argument 2. Shaq outplayed Hakeem in the finals, but his team was swept because (I) the magic supporting cast was significantly worse in the finals than the rockets supporting cast.
I wasn't talking about Shaq -
bastillon wrote:
list TS%, ast and turnovers. your cherry picked stats are ridiculously biased.
bastillon wrote:How is Kobe dead-last when he has a 55% TS as compared to KG's horrible 44% TS???? Didn't Webber get dropped off nearly every list because of his bad TS% in 2001?
because he PALES in comparison in every other category ? not to mention that Garnett was clear #1 on his team and Kobe had a 40/20 threat in the low post....
Penny torched the Lakers. if Kobe is this elite defender he gets the blame. if Kobe is just average guy on defense, he gets no blame. you pick.
Sorry, but shooting 38.5% for the playoffs and 44% on TS knocks KG WAY down as compared to Kobe. And how does Kobe pale in every other category when he avrage 2.1 bpg to KG's 0.8, and 1.6 spg to KG's 1.3? KG had more assists & rebounds, but that doesn't negate his horrible shooting.
Quotatious wrote: Bastillon is Hakeem. Combines style and substance.