New media, citizen journalism, rumor and the Wizards board

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

The Wizboard is one of the most level-headed, sophisticated forums I've encountered on the web. I don't think we've ever had an actual issue with spreading/running with sketchy info.

So I'm not sure a preemptive, heavy-handed policy is really called for to address a hypothetical problem. But I'm on the free speech side of things. I think the community here has shown itself to be strong enough to merit some latitude.

The mods, of course, have the power to deal with any specific situations that come up as they see fit.

Big A, I appreciate the way you've put this. I didn't post yesterday because I might have launched a Dan Gilbert-like, emotionally-charged response. I'm still a bit emotional about this. Here's the best I've got today:

pineapplehead, it's so nice of you to think for the little people who don't know how to express themselves. I know that it's just imperative to not have any baseless gossip spread on the Wizards Board.

Censor away. Pontificate. Let folks know who's the man, pine

Hey CCJ, can I quote you over in the Politics thread re; Fairness Doctrine, Internet regulation, Campaign Finance laws, etc.? I happen to agree completely in the sense that the cure for "bad" speech is not less speech, but more speech. Allow the marketplace of ideas to sort it out and let people think for themselves. I just find it ironic that some of those who would be the first to protest a library using an internet filter to keep child porn off of the computers in the children's section would not only accept but promote an idea such as the Fairness Doctrine, "for the greater good."

Now - that being said, I do understand some of pine's motivation here. I took his post to be more in the spirit of "C'mon guys, we're better than that. We don't need to lower ourselves with the rest of the gutter-dwellers and engage in rumor-mongering." I have no problem with that statement, provided it does not actually move into censorship, banning, etc. Again, the best remedy is more speech. Call out the rumor-mongers and haters. Expose them for spreading lies and encouraging the worst elements of message boards. Mock them, even. I heartily endorse that approach.

Sev, I didn't take them that way. I have my reasons for saying this. No need, but to say pine, feel free to contact me offline if you wish. Otherwise, I'm done with it.

[Donkey McDonkerton]

I was thinking about posting about a new rumor I heard today...I think im going to ask my mom first and she what she thinks.

[Hoopalotta]

I'm strongly in the 'nay' camp too. Unnecessary and it will be so jumbled with ideas that should be under other headers that it'll do more harm than good to general cohesion.

The Gil-ACL bit was a total anomaly that might happen once a year. I had opened up a Google "latest" search and there was a stream of chatter, so it was just a quick wildfire that inevitably made it's way here. Just that Mike Lee and Mike Jones had to respond to it shows what was going on there. Of course there was going to be a post here - this is the Wizards board. Had it been in a 'rumor thread' it would have been no less worrisome. If it was a weekly occurrence, maybe it's a problem. But it's not so it ain't.

The short of it? Bad idea. An artificial and unnecessary autocratic intrusion on an inherently informal environment.

[pineappleheadindc]

I've miss you guys because you're all smart and level-headed. And you're all articulate and thoughtful.

I'm off of the ledge this morning, my frustration over the "Lebron's on this way to Chicago" dozens of threads gone from my memory. And I appreciate your thoughts and input.

I WAS going to drop this and go back to life as it is - but now am intrigued by at "Baseless and Random Rumor for Those Who Like That Kind of Stuff" thread.

Yea or nay?

And gentlemen, thanks again for your thoughts and patience with me.

[verbal8]

I think general stuff that is garbage gets buried pretty quickly on this board. The stuff that is more reputable and interesting generally gets discussed.

I can't think of any examples where someone has been passing off rumors as facts with any regularity on the Wizards board.

[Cramer]

If we're going to start a thread, how 'bouts another one of them damn near naked babes threads?

[pineappleheadindc]

^
Cramer, didn't we all get in trouble for that "almost naked", hot-babes thread a while back?

I wonder if I can go to archive.org and pull it up in archives.....(not that I'd post a link here on the board).

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I WAS going to drop this and go back to life as it is - but now am intrigued by at "Baseless and Random Rumor for Those Who Like That Kind of Stuff" thread.

Yea or nay?

And gentlemen, thanks again for your thoughts and patience with me.

As long we know they're BS rumors and such that sounds like a lot of fun.

pine, I am sorry.

I also need folks to be patient with me. Aloha, and welcome back!

[Cramer]

^
Cramer, didn't we all get in trouble for that "almost naked", hot-babes thread a while back?

I wonder if I can go to archive.org and pull it up in archives.....(not that I'd post a link here on the board).

lol...I don't remember any trouble but I'm not a mod.

Ohhhhhh......you mean the trouble when the wifey peeked over your shoulder and you were left sitting there trying to explain how it's really just a basketball message board?

Ain't marraige grand?

[Severn Hoos]

Aloha, and welcome back!

Hey CCJ & pine, I just put my family on a plane to Honolulu and will be joining them shortly. Any suggestions for local secrets, must-do or must-see locales, and places to eat that the tourists don't know about?

[pineappleheadindc]

Secret #1. Not a secret....ENJOY just the time off.

If you're the beach time, I'm not a fan of Waikiki. Close by, hit Ala Moana Beach (first getting your food and a smoothie from the Ala Moana shopping center across the street).

I enjoy beaches at Waimea Bay and Three Tables (right after Waimea).

I'm cool with the tourist luaus (warning: Expensive) because they're actually fun. Two biggest are Germaines and Paradise Cove. Go to Paradise Cove and drive yourself, go early and play the Hawaiian games, drink your three free mai tais, and take photos.

Finally, neighbor islands are the best. Get over to Hilo and tour the volcano. Maui's nice, etc.

PM me if you have specific questions. I"m now PMing you my cell phone number in case you get lost, stuck, or whatever. Call me or txt me if you need anything.

[Scabs304]

Aloha, and welcome back!

Hey CCJ & pine, I just put my family on a plane to Honolulu and will be joining them shortly. Any suggestions for local secrets, must-do or must-see locales, and places to eat that the tourists don't know about?

Severn you can not try to play softball if you are in Hawaii. Enjoy the vacation man.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Aloha, and welcome back!

Hey CCJ & pine, I just put my family on a plane to Honolulu and will be joining them shortly. Any suggestions for local secrets, must-do or must-see locales, and places to eat that the tourists don't know about?

Sev, I think the best places are away from Waikiki and away from North Shore, but there's much to choose from near Waikiki.

The must-sees I'd recommend if you're just visiting Oahu for the first time: Pearl Harbor and the Arizona Memorial; Waikiki Beach; International Market Place, Diamondhead; and Haleiwa (best shave ice).

The nicer beaches with less tourists: Kailua Beach on the windward (east, where it's greener) side beaches. Ko Olina on the leeward (west, browner) side. If you REALLY want to get away from the crowds, just across from Haliewa on the north shore is Waialua. Driving way up Farrington Highway you'll find some beautiful, sparsely-populated places along the way to Kaena Point. But a word of caution, you need to be careful of rip tides. I don't swim well enough to even go out there.

As far as very family and kid-friendly beaches go, Waikiki and Ala Moana Beach park are the way to go. I would definitely start with them but DO NOT waste too much time getting ripped off in Waikiki. ABC Store is outrageously high. (Find a Walmart or a Sams if you want to save coin).

There are also some real nice beaches only accessible to military and dependents, but I don't think you need to hear about them. (Do you?)

Sev, the best cheap eats (locals say "grinds") IMO are the trucks on the side of the road. "Blue Water Shrimp" has a truck down somewhere in the Waikiki area.

Restaurants that meet the CCJ Seal of Approval: hint, you will eat good food and not pay too much.

In the Waikiki area, here are a few I know of:

Phuket Thai - Great Thai food.

Todai - Outstanding Japenese food. Buffet with lots of sushi, tempura, etc. Usually on a Sunday afternoon.

The Cheesecake Factory - Not just the best deserts, and they've got tons of them. They also serve great entrees of traditional foods. Pork chops are slamming there. Menu has 30 pages of stuff. I cannot do the place justice. Never been disappointed with the food or the ambience there.

My advice: Check out Ward center. It's up Ala Moana street, not far from the Civic Center and Ala Moana Mall. There are about 20 restaurants. Don't know what you go for, but you're bound to find something you like.

One place I LOVE at Ward Center: Kincaid's Fish, Chop, and Steak House. Nice views of the water, if you get the right seat. Terrific food. I'd suggest if money is something you want to save, you might find look in a tourist booklet for coupons. I've had two for ones to Kincaids.

Ruth's Chris on Restaurant Row is nice.

Sev, I am probably going to overload you, but I think you can't go wrong here. I am merely scratching the surface.

If you just want to eat economically, I'd recommend you just stick to plate lunch establishments like L&L. Great local food. The locals here love Zippys. Me, not so much. That's the one of the few places I don't care for. Another: Sam Choy's restaurant on Nimitz. Yuk. But those are rare exceptions.

I love it here and I am sure you and your family will have a great time.

One last thing: If you want to take the time to sit through a film and maybe have to wait in line, I'd HIGLY RECOMMEND you visit Hanauma Bay. It's a sea life preservation area with great snorkeling. Kids will also like Sea Life Park.

[AlohaWiz]

Aloha, and welcome back!

Hey CCJ & pine, I just put my family on a plane to Honolulu and will be joining them shortly. Any suggestions for local secrets, must-do or must-see locales, and places to eat that the tourists don't know about?

Sev, I think the best places are away from Waikiki and away from North Shore, but there's much to choose from near Waikiki.

The must-sees I'd recommend if you're just visiting Oahu for the first time: Pearl Harbor and the Arizona Memorial; Waikiki Beach; International Market Place, Diamondhead; and Haleiwa (best shave ice).

The nicer beaches with less tourists: Kailua Beach on the windward (east, where it's greener) side beaches. Ko Olina on the leeward (west, browner) side. If you REALLY want to get away from the crowds, just across from Haliewa on the north shore is Waialua. Driving way up Farrington Highway you'll find some beautiful, sparsely-populated places along the way to Kaena Point. But a word of caution, you need to be careful of rip tides. I don't swim well enough to even go out there.

As far as very family and kid-friendly beaches go, Waikiki and Ala Moana Beach park are the way to go. I would definitely start with them but DO NOT waste too much time getting ripped off in Waikiki. ABC Store is outrageously high. (Find a Walmart or a Sams if you want to save coin).

There are also some real nice beaches only accessible to military and dependents, but I don't think you need to hear about them. (Do you?)

Sev, the best cheap eats (locals say "grinds") IMO are the trucks on the side of the road. "Blue Water Shrimp" has a truck down somewhere in the Waikiki area.

Restaurants that meet the CCJ Seal of Approval: hint, you will eat good food and not pay too much.

In the Waikiki area, here are a few I know of:

Phuket Thai - Great Thai food.

Todai - Outstanding Japenese food. Buffet with lots of sushi, tempura, etc. Usually on a Sunday afternoon.

The Cheesecake Factory - Not just the best deserts, and they've got tons of them. They also serve great entrees of traditional foods. Pork chops are slamming there. Menu has 30 pages of stuff. I cannot do the place justice. Never been disappointed with the food or the ambience there.

My advice: Check out Ward center. It's up Ala Moana street, not far from the Civic Center and Ala Moana Mall. There are about 20 restaurants. Don't know what you go for, but you're bound to find something you like.

One place I LOVE at Ward Center: Kincaid's Fish, Chop, and Steak House. Nice views of the water, if you get the right seat. Terrific food. I'd suggest if money is something you want to save, you might find look in a tourist booklet for coupons. I've had two for ones to Kincaids.

Ruth's Chris on Restaurant Row is nice.

Sev, I am probably going to overload you, but I think you can't go wrong here. I am merely scratching the surface.

If you just want to eat economically, I'd recommend you just stick to plate lunch establishments like L&L. Great local food. The locals here love Zippys. Me, not so much. That's the one of the few places I don't care for. Another: Sam Choy's restaurant on Nimitz. Yuk. But those are rare exceptions.

I love it here and I am sure you and your family will have a great time.

One last thing: If you want to take the time to sit through a film and maybe have to wait in line, I'd HIGLY RECOMMEND you visit Hanauma Bay. It's a sea life preservation area with great snorkeling. Kids will also like Sea Life Park.

Great suggestions here already, but here's a few more to consider.

Beaches:

Kahala Beach is a very quiet beach great for the family and only a few miles from Waikiki. I take the family there just about every week. It's one of the most relaxing beaches I've found on Oahu.

If you want a little more excitement you could try Sandy's Beach. It's located a mile or two past Hanuma Bay. The waves there are extremely rough, so be careful if you go. There's really cool tide pools at Sandy's, as well.

Food:

Mac 24-7 is located in Waikiki and has great diner food. My favorite is the chicken and waffles that comes with some amazing country gravy. Also, they serve delicious pancakes that are about the size of a garbage can lid. And I'm only slightly exaggerating! Google Man vs. Food & Mac 24-7 and you'll see what I mean

Kona Brewing Co. is in the Hawaii Kai area has a nice menu and good selection of beers. It's right on the water, so the view is awesome.

Finally, I couldn't agree more with CCJ about checking out Hanauma Bay. If you like snorkeling, or want to try it for the first time, you really should go there. I was hooked from the first time I went. You can see so many amazing fish, eels, turtles etc. It's incredible. (Although it is a tourist spot, so if you want to avoid the crowds, this wouldn't be the place to go).

Hope you have a great time!

[BanndNDC]

Had a bunch of Kona beer on 4th of july and it was pretty darn good.

[daSwami]

Pine, first off, welcome home! This place is better when you're here posting. Just a fyi - the missus and I opted not to re-up our season tix before last season, but we did make it to a handful of games, and plan to do so again this season. Would love to catch a game or two with you this season, schedule(s) permitting.

As to the discussion at hand, I see your point, but I think its a matter best taken up with the Global Mods or whomever it is that establishes/enforces the site's TOS. If you want to discourage out-right gossip-mongering, maybe you could put offending posters on "temporary probation" status or the like. Perhaps with a "scarlett letter" avi that says something like "this poster has violated this site's Terms of Service" - not so much as punishment, but as a deterrent.

Or, better, give Gilbert2Kwame exclusive flame rights to be used only against the offending poster.

And don't forget, we do, on rare occasion, get a poster in our midst who has legit "insider" info to give. Remember when you yourself pestered Kwame's cousins into admitting that Kwame wanted out of DC. And remember that guy, DC 101 (or whatever) who was friends with the Wiz doctor, he occasionally gave us the good scoop before it ever made it to the media.

[jimij]

Sev,

I've been on two long trips to Hawaii (honeymoon for two weeks and 5 yr anniversary for ten days) and I highly recommend one set of travel guides: "Oahu Revealed". They also have them for most of the other islands.

They were absolutely the best travel books I've ever used in that they gave actual opinions about everything and explained why they felt the way they did. They also did their best to actually give local information rather than just hit the tourist hot spots.

Other than that, just enjoy Hawaii. Also, you should learn to dive and take advantage while you're their.