[Camelo Thread Part 8] - NJ Gets Threats From Denver!

[PrecociousNeoph]

Still handcuffed by this Melo crap...

Hopefully Donnie has some trades lined-up for a backup PG and C once this is BS is completed.

This BS will be completed with us getting Melo

exactly.

[knicks742]

Sheridan mentions his source again and maintains that Melo has been steadfast about not signing extension with anyone but us:

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks ... atch-batum

Once again someone is talking **** about us. F ing Russian and his Nyets organization. Pisses me off.

[cgmw]

Re: Can Carmelo and Amar'e work well together?

I used to think they were too similar and couldn't be effective on the same team. Now I think almost the exact opposite. They would make excellent complementary players, especially in D'Antoni's inside-out offense. And here's why:

The Basic Similarities
Both are isolation 1-on-1 mid-post players. Each possesses:

1) An almost super-human combination of power and quickness on blow-by drives;
2) An excellent 15-20 foot face-up jumper to keep defenders honest.

Similar Quickness
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7CMRidr-RQ&feature=related[/youtube]

Similar Power
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uc6fH-Vn6aA[/youtube]

Similar 15-20 ft face-up jumper
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YygM6ENCqu8&feature=related[/youtube]

The Basic Differences
This isn't rocket science. Amar'e is a PF/C who gets touches by getting passed to down-low. Carmelo is a wing player who can initiate offense from outside the arc either by using his dribble or by waiting D'Antoni-style for the ball to rotate to his spot around the arc.

Watching Knick games, we all know what Amar'e can do. But here are examples of things Carmelo can do, that Amar'e can't:

Handling the ball in space
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXcDPsJKwOo&feature=related[/youtube]

Ball-Handling/Finesse
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-rIvExPpiA[/youtube]

Perimeter Catch & Shoot
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rK4SyFYsgWM[/youtube]

Passing outside-in (yes, sometimes he passes)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UretF96tyI[/youtube]

Any good post scorer benefits from having a teammate like Carmelo who can initiate from the perimeter and hold the ball for the final shot of a big game.

The cherry on top
In D'Antoni's system Carmelo could play effective minutes as Amare's backup. He has enough of a power post game to spell Amar'e and give maybe 8 solid minutes per game at the PF. The continuity would make it easier on teammates, and could allow Amar'e and his left knee several more minutes of rest.

Watching Chandler's success this season has me salivating over the potential of an Amar'e-Carmelo duo. As much as I hope Wilson develops into an All Star, there's just no ceiling on how good the Amar'e-Carmelo offensive tandem could be.

The other side of this argument is that Carmelo would benefit greatly from Amare's drive and leadership. This is a less scientific observation, but Carmelo seems more of a Beta than an Alpha. I think the two of them would quickly find great chemistry, especially with another tough-as-nails veteran in Ray Felton rounding out the leadership trio.

[Starksfor3]

Still handcuffed by this Melo crap...

Hopefully Donnie has some trades lined-up for a backup PG and C once this is BS is completed.

This BS will be completed with us getting Melo

We'll see...

Everybody is picking up on this NJ bullcrap now. Where there's smoke...

We already got burned by one diva. I'd like to stop falling for the same crap over and over again. Melo needs to wake up and can his agent.

[GONYK]

Still handcuffed by this Melo crap...

Hopefully Donnie has some trades lined-up for a backup PG and C once this is BS is completed.

This BS will be completed with us getting Melo

We'll see...

Everybody is picking up on this NJ bullcrap now. Where there's smoke...

We already got burned by one diva. I'd like to stop falling for the same crap over and over again. Melo needs to wake up and can his agent.

This is the third time there's been smoke. NJ is still cold.

There is also smoke around Melo only signing the extension with us.

[captain subtext]

Batum is a nice player, but I certainly wouldn't trade any of our three young guys for him at this point. but, you know, it's Denver's Party, if they don't want to invite the cool kids, that's up to them.

[K_ick_God]

Sheridan is still sticking with his Melo will only extend with the Knicks story

One league source told ESPN.com that acquiring Derrick Favors and Batum is the "grand slam" that Nuggets general manager Masai Ujiri would like to hit, but he remains handcuffed by Anthony's preference for a trade to the New York Knicks. As I reported last month, Anthony has made it known to the Nuggets that if he is traded, he will not sign his $65 million contract extension with any team other than New York. The source said Anthony has steadfastly maintained that stance in his recent discussions with Nuggets officials, despite the Nets being told that Anthony would sign the extension with them if he is traded to New Jersey.

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks ... atch-batum

And for you, Pharmcat

Another league source said Knicks officials were perturbed to hear that Anthony was being told they were "dragging their heels" in their efforts to acquire Anthony. (Which could lend some sort of an explanation to the origins behind the latter part of this quote from Anthony after practice Monday in Denver): "Who wouldn't want to play in New York?" Anthony said. "I told you that last year. I think that's how all this stuff started, by me making that comment. New York is playing well right now. I don't think they're looking at me, they don't want me to come in here and mess what they have up. That's what I've read."

If Sheridan is right, then I'm wrong and Melo is in control of his business. And I'll take it all back. But I believe the extension and his slimeball agents win in the end.

[Starksfor3]

This is the third time there's been smoke. NJ is still cold.

There is also smoke around Melo only signing the extension with us.

I question Melo's steadfastness in wanting to get here enough to tell his **** agent to shove it. If you have enough self-serving pricks telling you to do something and they tell you enough times, it starts to sound reasonable. The hope is that Melo can withstand such pressures.

[jamrock1975]

that would be a heck of a trade if they can heck of a trade if they could batum and favors, but favors has stromile swift written all over him. Batum has borias diaw in his phoenix day impact in him, but better defensively. I am not quite sure why portland would trade Batum at this point well they have been playing well with him in the starting line up now.

[Lottery Bound]

Kurt Helin: Avery Johnson says don’t expect trades during Net’s road trip http://dlvr.it/D7Ky0 #PBT #NBA about 11 minutes ago

[rwill784]

Lol...guy you definitely take this too personal to come off like a complete e-thug like that. Just because YOU believe Melo ain't franchise doesn't mean crap, when there are people who get paid to judge that and they say that he is, so I take their word before a angry e-thug anyday of the week. If you believe a guy that mentioned in MVP talks isn't franchise then please just stop watching basketball because that's the meaning of a franchise player.

By your standards their have only been a handful a franchise players in the league EVER. Carmelo made a putrid team a playoff team and threat in the west for the last 7 years. That franchise has done nothing but give him washed up has-beens for help since day one. (AI, Martin, Billups-although he's still good) And he's done nothing but win! That team is a basement dweller when he leaves dispite who they get in trades, and that's the truth and you know it cuz. How can Melo be expected to take his team to the chip when their next best threat on the team is a chucker named J,R Smith? Melo SHOULD demand to be traded because he's rotting away on that team like KG did in Minny.

And last I checked the stats that usually measure a player are ppg/rpg/apg/ and wins and his assists are pretty normal for a superstar and everything else is elite. Denver built a horrible sorrounding cast for Melo, nothing but has-beens and cancers on a roster ain't gonna win squat. If Lebron was in the west with that Cavs team they'd be one and done every year too.

And if your measuring stick of Melo is as wrong as it was with Amare then I WELCOME melo to the Knicks because he'll be averaging at least 30/8/5 on this squad!

I don't care if you don't agree with my criteria. You were questioning my objectivity, which made you just flat wrong.

And you are correct, there have only been a handful of TRUE franchise players in league history.

Also, Denver has not built a horrible supporting cast for Melo. Please. Melo took that team as far as he could because he, as a player, has major flaws.

Dog, I respect your opinion and I got nothing but love for fellow knick fans. But what you're saying is rather flawed. Lets take this example...Kobe on a team minus Shaq was taking the Lakers to one and done playoff appearances. he got some legit help and poof they are back to back champs. D Wade was in the same boat, they got him Marion, Beasley, Jermaine O'Neal, and a couple others and they never did anything. But with Shaq they won games. KG-one and done forever, then they got Spree and Cassel, they became chip threats, once they left KG couldn't even sniff playoffs.

The list can go on and on but I'll stop it there, so you are saying that the following players aren't franchise worthy...KG,Wade,Melo,Kobe, and that my friend makes no sense. Each of those players had been given insufficient help and did took their teams as far as they could go in the playoffs, but couldn't hit the top til they got REAL HELP. Why is Melo a exception to that rule? What makes him not a franchise player? And add Amare to that list because look at PHX without him. Stat is putting up MVP numbers and making a laughingstock respectable.

I just don't understand your logic when it comes to who is and isn't a franchise player. Because everyone I just named are either top 3 or 10 at their positions in the history of the game.

[Pharmcat]

just to clear up the point when i said yesterday about NY couldnt decide what they wanted to give up, i had the time and found one old sheridan article:

"The offers the Knicks have proposed have always centered around packages including Anthony Randolph, the expiring contract of Eddy Curry and a first-round draft pick they would acquire from a third team, and New York has softened its stance on including forward Danilo Gallinari in a trade."

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/ ... id=5705466

and that was the point i was trying to make, NY couldnt decide what they wanted to give up and perhaps thats why melo thinks they arent interested



and as for AHF post regarded to me, I had said NY needs to change the perception that they arent trying, and here is a suggestion: come out and say 'looking at anything and willing to take on extra money if it makes sense' ...so that melo knows they are going to try their hardest

[stevieg987]

So for Denver the "grand slam" is getting two players who average 7 and 5 (Favors) and 11 and 4 (Batum) respectively?

While our 10 and 7 rookie, 18 and 6, and 15 and 5 players aren't enough to get him on the line?

This **** is a joke.

[moocow007]

Batum is a nice player, but I certainly wouldn't trade any of our three young guys for him at this point. but, you know, it's Denver's Party, if they don't want to invite the cool kids, that's up to them.

I pride myself on being as impartial as I can be, but if Denver says that Batum is better than anything on the Knicks then it's proof to me that they simply do not want to deal with NY cause Batum is not better than anything the Knicks have. That or they're even more imcompetent than many already think.

[jamrock1975]

viewtopic.php?t=1082752

I have to say i love seeing one of our player get their props from another board. especially from portland who seems to always think their players are gods gift to this earth.

[GONYK]

Dog, I respect your opinion and I got nothing but love for fellow knick fans. But what you're saying is rather flawed. Lets take this example...Kobe on a team minus Shaq was taking the Lakers to one and done playoff appearances. he got some legit help and poof they are back to back champs. D Wade was in the same boat, they got him Marion, Beasley, Jermaine O'Neal, and a couple others and they never did anything. But with Shaq they won games. KG-one and done forever, then they got Spree and Cassel, they became chip threats, once they left KG couldn't even sniff playoffs.

The list can go on and on but I'll stop it there, so you are saying that the following players aren't franchise worthy...KG,Wade,Melo,Kobe, and that my friend makes no sense. Each of those players had been given insufficient help and did took their teams as far as they could go in the playoffs, but couldn't hit the top til they got REAL HELP. Why is Melo a exception to that rule? What makes him not a franchise player? And add Amare to that list because look at PHX without him. Stat is putting up MVP numbers and making a laughingstock respectable.

I just don't understand your logic when it comes to who is and isn't a franchise player. Because everyone I just named are either top 3 or 10 at their positions in the history of the game.

Here is my criteria again:
1. Can you run the offense through them?
2. Do they make their teammates better?
3. Can you count on them to get a bucket when you really need it?
4. Have the proved it in the playoffs?

How many of those apply to Kobe, KG, and Wade?

Now how many apply to Melo?

[aggo]

Batum is a nice player, but I certainly wouldn't trade any of our three young guys for him at this point. but, you know, it's Denver's Party, if they don't want to invite the cool kids, that's up to them.

I pride myself on being as impartial as I can be, but if Denver says that Batum is better than anything on the Knicks then it's proof to me that they simply do not want to deal with NY cause Batum is not better than anything the Knicks have.

for what it's worth, there was a report about a month ago that Philadelphia rejected an Iggy 4 prybilla/batum offer made by the trailblazers

[AllanHoustonFan]

I'm not reading much into this but I find it interesting that celebrity Knick fans are pleading for Carmelo to be a Knick and LaLa is replying to them.

MrEdLover Ed Lover
Dear @carmeloanthony if u choose the Knicks, no matter what u do I promise I won't C'mon Son u for a year!

@MrEdLover LOL! Hey Ed..miss u! Sending u love

MrEdLover Ed Lover
Hey @lala is it better to be the first lady of the Knicks or the Nets? Madison Square Garden is calling u La!

Again not reading much into it. Just find it very interesting.

[Knickplaya]

From CSherridan
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks ... atch-batum
One league source told ESPN.com that acquiring Derrick Favors and Batum is the "grand slam" that Nuggets general manager Masai Ujiri would like to hit, but he remains handcuffed by Anthony's preference for a trade to the New York Knicks. As I reported last month, Anthony has made it known to the Nuggets that if he is traded, he will not sign his $65 million contract extension with any team other than New York. The source said Anthony has steadfastly maintained that stance in his recent discussions with Nuggets officials, despite the Nets being told that Anthony would sign the extension with them if he is traded to New Jersey.

Another league source said Knicks officials were perturbed to hear that Anthony was being told they were "dragging their heels" in their efforts to acquire Anthony. (Which could lend some sort of an explanation to the origins behind the latter part of this quote from Anthony after practice Monday in Denver): "Who wouldn't want to play in New York?" Anthony said. "I told you that last year. I think that's how all this stuff started, by me making that comment. New York is playing well right now. I don't think they're looking at me, they don't want me to come in here and mess what they have up. That's what I've read."

[rwill784]

Dog, I respect your opinion and I got nothing but love for fellow knick fans. But what you're saying is rather flawed. Lets take this example...Kobe on a team minus Shaq was taking the Lakers to one and done playoff appearances. he got some legit help and poof they are back to back champs. D Wade was in the same boat, they got him Marion, Beasley, Jermaine O'Neal, and a couple others and they never did anything. But with Shaq they won games. KG-one and done forever, then they got Spree and Cassel, they became chip threats, once they left KG couldn't even sniff playoffs.

The list can go on and on but I'll stop it there, so you are saying that the following players aren't franchise worthy...KG,Wade,Melo,Kobe, and that my friend makes no sense. Each of those players had been given insufficient help and did took their teams as far as they could go in the playoffs, but couldn't hit the top til they got REAL HELP. Why is Melo a exception to that rule? What makes him not a franchise player? And add Amare to that list because look at PHX without him. Stat is putting up MVP numbers and making a laughingstock respectable.

I just don't understand your logic when it comes to who is and isn't a franchise player. Because everyone I just named are either top 3 or 10 at their positions in the history of the game.

Here is my criteria again:
1. Can you run the offense through them?
2. Do they make their teammates better?
3. Can you count on them to get a bucket when you really need it?
4. Have the proved it in the playoffs?

How many of those apply to Kobe, KG, and Wade?

Now how many apply to Melo?

Melo-
Offense can run through him has been for 7 years so check
He makes everyone on that squad better everyone isn't Nash with assists and Melo has pretty good assist totals for a true forward so...check
How many times has Melo been clutch? Is that a trick question he can take the game over with the best of them he even embarrassed LBJ last year when they went head to head...check
Has he proved it in the playoffs..my dude look up his playoff stats and you tell me! so by YOUR list he is a franchise player!!