Knicks emerge as front runners for Jamal Crawford?

[Thugger HBC]

Please explain how Toney Douglas has more value.

Please don't say defense, because Rondo already killed that thought.

He's younger, he's cheaper, he's on a shorter deal, defense(Rondo kills a ton of players, everyone kills JC), rebounding, shooting and passing.

Now the pros for JC, he can handle the ball more, and is a proven sixth man of the year and has been know as a great scorer.

Id take Toney 9/10 times.

You just made my case for Crawford.

We're talking signing Crawford for a 2 year MLE, you think TD is gonna re-sign for less?

Toney is not a better shooter or passer, stop that.

I really hate getting into these type of stat debates because they really get skewed.

Toney plays on one of the highest paces in the league.

Crawford played on one of the lowest.

Kind of how Felton even though he was not efficient at all, put up all-star type numbers under this system.

[NYKNICKPLAYA]

WILL THE HAWKS ACCEPT OUR S & T OFFER?

[Thugger HBC]

Stats do not need to tell me that a 6'5 SG/PG veteran > 6'1 3rd year PG/SG.

If Crawford is motivated to win, he'll play to the level he did as a Sixth Man in Atlanta. How many players are we going to rip that are proven impact role players on teams that kicked our ass for the last 2 seasons? C'mon now. It's getting ridiculous.

For some they live by them, and it quite sad.

[The_Philosopher]

Don't compare Felton's 5 years in the league (all better than Crawford's in efficiency) to Crawford's 12 year career of crap.

[Hardaway 10]

David Aldridge is tweeting that Kahn wants Barea.

@daldridgetnt David Aldridge
Source: Knicks, Wolves both in strong pursuit of J.J. Barea, who feels "betrayed" that Mavs only offered 1 yr deal. Check Hang Time blog.

[Thugger HBC]

Your posts on this subject are becoming so rife with disregard for the facts that I'm not going to be able to continue the conversation much longer:

-Toney's minutes did NOT "almost double" from year 1 to year 2. They went from 19 minutes to 24 minutes.
-Crawfords numbers did NOT go down solely because he took less shots. They also went down because his shooting percentages went down.
-Toney did NOT "fall off in almost every single category." His rebounds and assists both increased compared to the previous year in a proportion greater than his increase in minutes. His PPG also increased.
-This is in addition to your previous remark that Crawford's "minutes declined" when in reality he played almost identical minutes to the previous year, losing only 55 seconds per game.

If you're going to continue to post on this, please have some regard for the truth. It's disrespectful people who are discussing it with you.

Toney played 56 games in his rookie season at 19 minutes per game. total 1087

His second year he played 82 games at 24 minutes per game. total 1971.

Here you go .......

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/douglto01.html

Crawford.......

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/crawfja01.html

Now if you're actually gonna tell me a player who shoots less won't naturally lose production statistically, I should be done with the discussion.

[b]Minutes per game. We're not tallying up their literal totals.

You're right, after this in bold I'm done.

[Johnny Hoops]

We're not making a decision between Douglas playing point guard or acquiring Crawford.

That is essentially the decision if Douglas is getting traded for Crawford though, isn't it?

Both players would basically be playing the same role. It's just a matter of which one do you think would fill it better.

I don't see it that way -- I think Knicks view Jamal as more of a SG option off the bench.

With Toney they are stuck with a guy in a PG sized body that isn't a point guard (lacks the size).

I think you are moving Toney for Jamal but you'd really be swapping out Toney for a Barea or some other veteran point Knicks feel more comfortable distributing ball to stars.

I get sense stars like Toney but not when it comes to getting them the ball where/when they need it.

[GONYK]

We're not making a decision between Douglas playing point guard or acquiring Crawford.

That is essentially the decision if Douglas is getting traded for Crawford though, isn't it?

Both players would basically be playing the same role. It's just a matter of which one do you think would fill it better.

I don't see it that way -- I think Knicks view Jamal as more of a SG option off the bench.

With Toney they are stuck with a guy in a PG sized body that isn't a point guard (lacks the size).

I think you are moving Toney for Jamal but you'd really be swapping out Toney for a Barea or some other veteran point Knicks feel more comfortable distributing ball to stars.

I get sense stars like Toney but not when it comes to getting them the ball where/when they need it.

I'm not sure what you said exactly, but as long as Toney isn't our PG at the end of the day, I don't care.

[Johnny Hoops]

I'd love to have Jamal back.

He's a great shooter and penetrator.

I don't want him as our point guard and perhaps not as a starter but I sure want him in the crew

He's not a great shooter. Career 42% shooter with 35% from 3. Last year was 42.1%/34.1%

The distinction with Jamal is that he is great at getting a decent shot off -- at the end of games or when the clock is running down. He won't always make the shot but he has the ability to break virtually anyone down enough to squeeze the trigger on a decent shot.

This is perhaps his biggest skill --- an ability - when defense is fully set to create something out of nothing. That is what the Knicks would want him for....off the bench - late game scoring option.

[Blue Ninja]

You just made my case for Crawford.

We're talking signing Crawford for a 2 year MLE, you think TD is gonna re-sign for less?

Toney is not a better shooter or passer, stop that.

I really hate getting into these type of stat debates because they really get skewed.

Toney plays on one of the highest paces in the league.

Crawford played on one of the lowest.

Kind of how Felton even though he was not efficient at all, put up all-star type numbers under this system.

Does it matter what TD is going to resign for? He is on a 1 year deal right now and is a RFA after that. With Jamal there is a bust potential. With TD there is little bust potential and he would be a bird player who wouldnt take any exceptions away from us.

He is both a better shooter and passer. JC gets to the basket much better but isnt as good of a shooter.

I havent brought up PPG or stats that the speed of the game would influence so no need for that.

Yeah his stats improved, and im sure that JC's would also, but he is only marginally better on offense and much worse on defense and rebounding. Considering age, it wouldnt be a great move.

[Thugger HBC]

You just made my case for Crawford.

We're talking signing Crawford for a 2 year MLE, you think TD is gonna re-sign for less?

Toney is not a better shooter or passer, stop that.

I really hate getting into these type of stat debates because they really get skewed.

Toney plays on one of the highest paces in the league.

Crawford played on one of the lowest.

Kind of how Felton even though he was not efficient at all, put up all-star type numbers under this system.

Does it matter what TD is going to resign for? He is on a 1 year deal right now and is a RFA after that. With Jamal there is a bust potential. With TD there is little bust potential and he would be a bird player who wouldnt take any exceptions away from us.

He is both a better shooter and passer. JC gets to the basket much better but isnt as good of a shooter.

I havent brought up PPG or stats that the speed of the game would influence so no need for that.

Yeah his stats improved, and im sure that JC's would also, but he is only marginally better on offense and much worse on defense and rebounding. Considering age, it wouldnt be a great move.

Here is the thing, you're basing it on the individual, whereas I'm basing it on a role.

We have no clue what role TD would excel at on this team, but we know Jamal is built for a sixth man role.

This was like the lengthy discussion of Melo vs Durant.

Durant is younger and makes less, so he's a better choice for who's best.

It doesn't work like that in most cases, and doesn't work here.

We are building a contender, the pieces have to fit, and all contenders have players with roles.

[Blue Ninja]

Here is the thing, you're basing it on the individual, whereas I'm basing it on a role.

We have no clue what role TD would excel at on this team, but we know Jamal is built for a sixth man role.

This was like the lengthy discussion of Melo vs Durant.

Durant is younger and makes less, so he's a better choice for who's best.

It doesn't work like that in most cases, and doesn't work here.

We are building a contender, the pieces have to fit, and all contenders have players with roles.

Look I agree as a 6th man JC > TD, but TD is our starting PG right now, with maybe 1 or 2 better options out there. Is it smart to give a starting PG for a 6th man? I dont think so.

[Anotha Knicks fan]

David Aldridge is tweeting that Kahn wants Barea.

@daldridgetnt David Aldridge
Source: Knicks, Wolves both in strong pursuit of J.J. Barea, who feels "betrayed" that Mavs only offered 1 yr deal. Check Hang Time blog.

What is it with this guy Kahn? I know we've clowned on him with his point guard fetish... but really... holy crap man. seems like he wants everyone we want.

If we get a real point guard, I don't mind trading Toney in that case to Atlanta for Jamal. If we sign Jamal for the exception, and not trade Toney, I wouldn't be mad. I would just be bewildered if we make a hole we've got even bigger by trading a quasi point for a non point. I don't see how I can make the argument any simpler.

[JCity723NYK]

Get this man back on the Knicks!!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_LAAjEKCVY[/youtube]

[Thugger HBC]

Here is the thing, you're basing it on the individual, whereas I'm basing it on a role.

We have no clue what role TD would excel at on this team, but we know Jamal is built for a sixth man role.

This was like the lengthy discussion of Melo vs Durant.

Durant is younger and makes less, so he's a better choice for who's best.

It doesn't work like that in most cases, and doesn't work here.

We are building a contender, the pieces have to fit, and all contenders have players with roles.

Look I agree as a 6th man JC > TD, but TD is our starting PG right now, with maybe 1 or 2 better options out there. Is it smart to give a starting PG for a 6th man? I dont think so.

I don't view TD as a starting PG, I don't think anyone will.

He will start if we have nothing else, and right now we don't.

Jared Jeffries started a few games for us too. Is he a starting center too?

Keith Bogans started as SG for the Bulls.

D'antoni, Melo, and Amar'e know Toney will not have that ball.

D'antoni made it clear melo will run the offense.

[Thugger HBC]

Get this man back on the Knicks!!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_LAAjEKCVY[/youtube]

This one......

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRNdN1xCkGk[/youtube]

[NYMNYKFN10]

BTW, whoever posted that pic of Crawford posting a pic Knicks' uniform on his Twitter, that was from November.

[ibraheim718]

So the pacers ended up getting David West.

[Blue Ninja]

I don't view TD as a starting PG, I don't think anyone will.

He will start if we have nothing else, and right now we don't.

Jared Jeffries started a few games for us too. Is he a starting center too?

Keith Bogans started as SG for the Bulls.

D'antoni, Melo, and Amar'e know Toney will not have that ball.

D'antoni made it clear melo will run the offense.

Maybe I just like TD more then most. I feel like hes an adequate starter. Those guys you mentioned are just backups or scrubs. Toney is a legit player. I remember last year he played very well when Billups was out. He was handling the ball and playing pick and roll well. I like him better than JJ Barea and the only guy Id start over TD is Baron if he is waived/amnesty'd.

[Thugger HBC]

So the pacers ended up getting David West.

All I saw was this.....

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Y! Sources: As Boston and David West come down to wire on completing deal, Indiana waits to swoop and steal him. tinyurl.com/carkurz
6 minutes ago