Knicks emerge as front runners for Jamal Crawford?

[NoLayupRule]

If we can add him without losing Douglas and ideally Shumpert then we would be insane to pause even for a second.

This is how championship teams are made. Guys like Candler and Crawford next to stars like Carmelo and Amare.

Fields is totally expendable for Crawford. Tough to say as I'd love to keep him.

Let's hope Jamal will come here for less cash and we can really have something special.

We may not want to admit it but a catch and shoot, quick transition offensive threat like Jamal is something we desperately need!

How is Fields expendable and Douglas isn't if Crawford and Douglas play the same position?

Because they don't and they don't play the same way.

Douglas can and does guard PGs and smaller SGs well.
Fields is a good defender on some Sgs and some SFs but not good in pick and roll defense and not good on either bigger or smaller/quicker options.

Both are good rebounders with fields obviously better.
Douglas is a vastly superior scorer.

IMO Douglas has more of a role on this team playing a scoring PG role vs fields utility SG role.
With Fields we will have to play more of Bibby to take advantage of double teams.
Bibby and Jamal is a nightmare on defense.

With Douglas we can play less of Bibby and when we do we can use him as a play maker and spot up shooter.
With Douglas we can run Jamal and Douglas together in the backcourt without offensive weaknesses and with some defensive versatility.

If we added Jamal it'd be great to have Fields on the team but Douglas is far more important then fields IMO.

[Blue Ninja]

If this deal falls apart and we land Barea and Crawford, this will be the greatest free agency in Knick history.

Depending on who we lose, I might agree. Amare free agency was pretty good also.

[Thugger HBC]

Chance to do what? Walk around with a title?

He won't have the ball, Melo will be the facilitator.

You really think that Melo is going to be the playmaker every possession? No chance. Toney is going to have pick and rolls and other plays called for him also.

Nope, but the offense will be ran through him, so he will be the guy who runs the offense.

When Toney gets the ball I seriously doubt he will have any decision to make other than shoot.

maybe he'll be allowed to bring it up.

[gavran]

Some of the posters' personal hatred clouds thier judgement. Crawford for this team for a role he thrived in under the coach the Knick have now? For 2.5 million? This team still needs ballhandlers, shooters, a legit offensive threat off the bench, someone who can make lob-passes and play defense. With Jamal, you get all of that in one player (of course the defense part excluded. Few years ago he was a role player who had to be the star of the team by default. Now, he'd be a role player, with a role that's perfect for his skillset and IQ.

[GONYK]

Because they don't and they don't play the same way.

Douglas can and does guard PGs and smaller SGs well.
Fields is a good defender on some Sgs and some SFs but not good in pick and roll defense and not good on either bigger or smaller/quicker options.

Both are good rebounders with fields obviously better.
Douglas is a vastly superior scorer.

IMO Douglas has more of a role on this team playing a scoring PG role vs fields utility SG role.
With Fields we will have to play more of Bibby to take advantage of double teams.
Bibby and Jamal is a nightmare on defense.

With Douglas we can play less of Bibby and when we do we can use him as a play maker and spot up shooter.
With Douglas we can run Jamal and Douglas together in the backcourt without offensive weaknesses and with some defensive versatility.

If we added Jamal it'd be great to have Fields on the team but Douglas is far more important then fields IMO.

That's because Fields is a swingman, not an SG. We don't have a backup SF if we trade Fields.

There is no need to have Crawford, Douglas, and Shumpert. Especially since we are still pursuing Barea and Davis.

[Blue Ninja]

The only reason TD is considered a PG is because he's short. Nothing in his skillset suggests he's a PG.

Yeah but the position has changed. Look around and tell me how many true PGs are out there. You need someone who can guard the position, bring the ball up court, pass the ball, play within himself, score when open, and play the pick and roll. TD can do those things. He doesnt have the vision of a PG and he cant break down a defense, which is why he isnt a great PG but he is a fine one.

[Blue Ninja]

Some of the posters' personal hatred clouds thier judgement. Crawford for this team for a role he thrived in under the coach the Knick have now? For 2.5 million? This team still needs ballhandlers, shooters, a legit offensive threat off the bench, someone who can make lob-passes and play defense. With Jamal, you get all of that in one player (of course the defense part excluded. Few years ago he was a role player who had to be the star of the team by default. Now, he'd be a role player, with a role that's perfect for his skillset and IQ.

Id run a marathon for him to sign a 3/4 year at 2.5 per. But if it means giving up Toney or Fields I dont want him.

[Blue Ninja]

Chance to do what? Walk around with a title?

He won't have the ball, Melo will be the facilitator.

You really think that Melo is going to be the playmaker every possession? No chance. Toney is going to have pick and rolls and other plays called for him also.

Nope, but the offense will be ran through him, so he will be the guy who runs the offense.

When Toney gets the ball I seriously doubt he will have any decision to make other than shoot.

maybe he'll be allowed to bring it up.

Id say TD gets a fair share of plays called for him. Hopefully we'll see.

[Thugger HBC]

Some of the posters' personal hatred clouds thier judgement. Crawford for this team for a role he thrived in under the coach the Knick have now? For 2.5 million? This team still needs ballhandlers, shooters, a legit offensive threat off the bench, someone who can make lob-passes and play defense. With Jamal, you get all of that in one player (of course the defense part excluded. Few years ago he was a role player who had to be the star of the team by default. Now, he'd be a role player, with a role that's perfect for his skillset and IQ.

The 2.5 isn't the debate with some, it's having to give up Toney in a possible sign and trade.

Toney would be gone if I had to do it.

We got torched by every guard in the league with Toney playing, so we won't miss much with him gone.

Jamal ensures our scoring weapon can get proper rest, takes pressure off Melo to have to handle the offense every trip down, and puts pressure on the opponent.

And he's another 4th qtr clutch threat.

Remember his 4pt plays? He got some with the Hawks too.

[GONYK]

The only reason TD is considered a PG is because he's short. Nothing in his skillset suggests he's a PG.

Yeah but the position has changed. Look around and tell me how many true PGs are out there. You need someone who can guard the position, bring the ball up court, pass the ball, play within himself, score when open, and play the pick and roll. TD can do those things. He doesnt have the vision of a PG and he cant break down a defense, which is why he isnt a great PG but he is a fine one.

TD can't play the PnR and Jamal can do all those things better than Douglas, except for guard the position, which TD is solid, but not incredible at.

[Knicker23]

Seems like TD's youth and D are the only real advantages he has.. He can, as we've seen, catch fire and score from three.. But Crawford clearly the better player as the 6th man of the year.

TD is no specialist at running the offense as a PG, but he did a decent enough job when he had to... I'm not sure what would come with Crawfords chucking habits running point on this team..

[Thugger HBC]

The only reason TD is considered a PG is because he's short. Nothing in his skillset suggests he's a PG.

Yeah but the position has changed. Look around and tell me how many true PGs are out there. You need someone who can guard the position, bring the ball up court, pass the ball, play within himself, score when open, and play the pick and roll. TD can do those things. He doesnt have the vision of a PG and he cant break down a defense, which is why he isnt a great PG but he is a fine one.

The bold is why Toney isn't a pg.

The vast majority the other in the league in the pg role can do that.

Gotta walk before you run in this case.

[Thugger HBC]

Seems like TD's youth and D are the only real advantages he has.. He can, as we've seen, catch fire and score from three.. But Crawford clearly the better player as the 6th man of the year.

TD is no specialist at running the offense as a PG, but he did a decent enough job when he had to... I'm not sure what would come with Crawfords chucking habits running point on this team..

he wasn't chucking with the Hawks, and we have three core vets that will have none of it here.

[Thugger HBC]

You really think that Melo is going to be the playmaker every possession? No chance. Toney is going to have pick and rolls and other plays called for him also.

Nope, but the offense will be ran through him, so he will be the guy who runs the offense.

When Toney gets the ball I seriously doubt he will have any decision to make other than shoot.

maybe he'll be allowed to bring it up.

Id say TD gets a fair share of plays called for him. Hopefully we'll see.

Hopefully we won't.

[NoLayupRule]

Because they don't and they don't play the same way.

Douglas can and does guard PGs and smaller SGs well.
Fields is a good defender on some Sgs and some SFs but not good in pick and roll defense and not good on either bigger or smaller/quicker options.

Both are good rebounders with fields obviously better.
Douglas is a vastly superior scorer.

IMO Douglas has more of a role on this team playing a scoring PG role vs fields utility SG role.
With Fields we will have to play more of Bibby to take advantage of double teams.
Bibby and Jamal is a nightmare on defense.

With Douglas we can play less of Bibby and when we do we can use him as a play maker and spot up shooter.
With Douglas we can run Jamal and Douglas together in the backcourt without offensive weaknesses and with some defensive versatility.

If we added Jamal it'd be great to have Fields on the team but Douglas is far more important then fields IMO.

That's because Fields is a swingman, not an SG. We don't have a backup SF if we trade Fields.

There is no need to have Crawford, Douglas, and Shumpert. Especially since we are still pursuing Barea and Davis.

Well Berea and Davis would totally reverse the situation and Douglas would very much be the odd man out. I that case yes, Fields would be ideal.

However I'm assuming right now that LA gets Howard and Davis goes there.
Berea can't come here unless he comes for nothing or Dallas works a S&T, neither of which I see happening.


Let's assume for now no Davis and no Barea.

Walker plays backup SF and so can Jeffries depending on our needs.
In fact a backup SF isn't something that I'll worry about picking up.

Douglas may not be a play maker but he's skilled on both ends of the court. Fields I like but I think he's totally overrated. I'd love him on the team but I'd prefer Jamal. Plain and simple.

[GONYK]

Nope, but the offense will be ran through him, so he will be the guy who runs the offense.

When Toney gets the ball I seriously doubt he will have any decision to make other than shoot.

maybe he'll be allowed to bring it up.

Id say TD gets a fair share of plays called for him. Hopefully we'll see.

Hopefully we won't.

[Blue Ninja]

TD can't play the PnR and Jamal can do all those things better than Douglas, except for guard the position, which TD is solid, but not incredible at.

I think he can play pick and roll. Jamal cant play within himself, because he isnt someone who defers looks for better ones. He did it a bit before we traded him to the Warriors, but I dont know if hes willing to do that consistently.

Im going to sleep guys.

[GONYK]

Well Berea and Davis would totally reverse the situation and Douglas would very much be the odd man out. I that case yes, Fields would be ideal.

However I'm assuming right now that LA gets Howard and Davis goes there.
Berea can't come here unless he comes for nothing or Dallas works a S&T, neither of which I see happening.


Let's assume for now no Davis and no Barea.

Walker plays backup SF and so can Jeffries depending on our needs.
In fact a backup SF isn't something that I'll worry about picking up.

Douglas may not be a play maker but he's skilled on both ends of the court. Fields I like but I think he's totally overrated. I'd love him on the team but I'd prefer Jamal. Plain and simple.

You're saying you'd rather Bill Walker or Jeffries get time/be on the roster over Fields if Crawford is here?

Crawford is a combo guard. Douglas is a combo guard. Shumpert is a combo guard. Fields is a swingman.

I don't see how he even enters into the equation. He provides nothing that the other players do and vice versa. The roles are completely different.

Crawford and Douglas, however, completely overlap.

[Kidknick!]

Crawford had a good run here. I'd welcome him back, he was always an excellent teammate and caused no problems during an era where alot of bad things were happening. Cleveland is not gonna amnesty Baron Davis so this is better than Bibby.

[ibraheim718]

GONYK... I found this video for you since you have an affinity for PG's like I do.

It's of NYC playground legend Lloyd "see pea" Daniels when he played for the Spurs several years after he was almost shot to death in east NYC. He was going to be the starting PG for the Runnin Reb's the year they won the championship until he was arrested at a crack house in LV.

6' 9" PG whose court vision was compared to Magic Johnson coming out of high school. Never dunked... always finger rolled the ball in the hole. Ambidextrous. Unique talent all the way around with an unbelievable feel for the game. He's #24... I wish I could find more footage of him... thugger you'd like this too.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSWH8CuLors[/youtube]

Dude lost almost all of his blood and he made it to the league... damn shame what could have been.