2012 NBA Draft - Part III

[Ruzious]

I have O'Quinn in YODA with a late 2nd round grade. His numbers look good, but they came against a very weak schedule. He has center length, but his agility/leaping numbers were below average for a PF (albeit fine for a center) at Portsmouth. He's a guy I'd be happy to see the Wizards sign as an undrafted free agent for their summer league team and for training camp.

His production and length are intriguing enough that I'd want to give him a shot against NBA competition to see what he could do. But I wouldn't invest more than a late 2nd round pick in getting him.

Admit it - you just hate Irish folks. Actually, that sounds reasonable. Who knows what he can do until he faces legit competition. Thanks, Kev.

Oh, and we can get Crowder at 30 in that universe.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I must have interviewed Kwame a dozen times; just talked/chit-chatted with him a couple dozen more. I really liked the guy. Nearly every time I talked to him, I thought he was "getting it" and about to turn the corner. I still sometimes wonder what would have happened if he hadn't broken his foot that summer.

He was coming off what has turned out to be the most productive year of his career, and Eddie Jordan was planning a major role for him in the offense. Eddie that year was talking about "core scorers" and his three were Arenas, Jamison and Kwame. Then Kwame broke his foot and Eddie audibilized to Hughes, who went out and had by far the best season of his career. Meanwhile, Kwame got fat and got his feelings hurt when everyone ignored him (which is what happens to hurt players in pro sports because the coaches and guys who aren't hurt don't have time to hold hands), and then quit on the team in the playoffs. And then he was in LA and the Wizards had Caron, and the rest is history.

But I can see that alternative history almost as clearly as I can see what really happened. In some alternate universe, Kwame didn't break his foot and exploded into an absolute monster -- a KG-like presence inside who anchored the Wizards deep into the playoffs for the next decade. 'Cause in that alternate universe, Arenas didn't blow out his knee or play guns in the locker room either. In that alternate universe, the Wizards would probably be prepping to trade up from 29 or 30 so they could take Jae Crowder in the mid-1st.

After witnessing Kwame totally out play prime Brad Miller, I can see why Eddie may have thought he had a go-to big man in Kwame Brown. It was just one game, but Kwame did to Brad Miller what I imagine he must have done Tyson Chandler in pre-draft head-to-head meetings if the rumors are true. MJ and Eddie probably thought the same things. Nivek, Kwame did seem to be on the verge of getting it.

My only meeting with Kwame was at Pete Newell's following his rookie year. He struck me as a very young kid. Big kid, but I was surprised how young he seemed. Not to put him down, because everybody develops differently. I did not get any vibe from him that was bad at all. I handed him something I was carrying, a pamphlet by Norman Vincent Peale, "The Power of Positive Thinking."

Looking back, I would say not everyone has a star mentality or a go-getter ego. Kwame is still in the league, still getting paid. Whatever problems he's had off the court they seem to be relatively minor. He never became a scorer but the Miami Heat sure could use his defense at PF or C. Golden State next season, when he's healthy, will still have a 30-year asset in Kwame. He's still got a lot more basketball left.

[fishercob]

Consig, your writeup on Beal and MKG was great! I have goosebumps. COme on top 3 pick!!!

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Consiglieri, I don't get paid for it but I know more than a lot of NBA scouts. I think they're wrong.

Would you rather have Chris Singleton or Kenneth Faried? Or Marshon Brooks? Would you rather have Jan Vesely or Kawhi Leonard? Would you rather have the rights to Rubio or Steph Curry; or would have you have rather acquired Mike Miller and Randy Foye and have nothing to show?

If drafting Drummond could enable the Wizards to offload Blatche (thus saving $ and preserving good chemistry), and acquire Zeller (who will be a very effective stretch 4 or 5 in the LaMarcus Aldridge mold), and get a future pick; that beats acquiring Drummond.

I keep hearing about how great Beal and MKG will be and I think they may not become any better than Will Barton because Barton has a winning background and some pretty unique skills.

Every year I get into a discussion about the scouts and what they think and how they know more than I do. Tell you what. Between Nivek, Dat, doc, and myself to be immodest; we can do just as well. Honestly, I truly believe I'm one of the best. Ed Weiland and the great YODA crunch numbers better, but I know what I know and I've been at this a while. It's not my first rodeo.

So, forgive my arrogance, but to a point I use all the mocks and go by what I feel. Using consensus and blending in with my gut gives me insight to all but the private information only physicals and extensive background checks, and private interviews don't tell. Just from being around, I bet I could REALLY be good at this with that information.

Bottom Line: MKG and Beal are 19 years old each. They may be great, great players one day. The same may be said next year, for guys like Shabazz Muhammed and Nerlens Noel. There may be someone like Doug McDermott available when the Wizards draft next season. He's going to be a very effective NBA player. I think some moves need to be strategic. I don't think MKGs offense is all that refined. I don't think Beal's size and strength will lead him to greatness for 3 years. OTOH, Barton is long and a slasher and he's going to be a better pro than imagined by most scouts IMO.

All do respect, I really don't think you do. If you had the assets, and the time, and the career, I really think you could be, but I definitely don't think you are. Paul Milsap (before my time), Faried (everyone here dug him once they researched a little, though you definitely deserve credit for digging him up first (does that mean i deserve credit for propping Luck in the summer of '09, and RG3 as a dark horse for the redskins in 2010?), you've had guys you looked at, and loved, you've dug through the players and found pet projects you really loved who turned out (and guys like Almond who didnt, I don't judge you for it, Almond's issues may be opportunity rather than talent, and besides, I loved Amobi Okoye, over Laron Landy (then again, I did correctly surmize that fellow DE, Jamal Anderson did not have the stuff to be a great DE at the next level, regardless of what scouts said)), but scouts, and cross checkers (thinking of baseball, and imagining that NBA teams aren't that different, i bet they have something similar to regional cross checkers etc), of gusy that run stuff like blesto or whatever in the NFL, these guys look at thousands of players, not just a pet few, or 10 or 20, like we do, or 40 or 50 like the more obsessive of us do. I think it's a different kind of thing to actually do it for a career, and I tend to think we forget our misses a lot more than our hits. What did we think of the 2000 draft. Did we sniff out that it was a giant pile of manure at the time, that nobody out of that draft (basically how in the hell did every basketball player born in 1978 or 1982 generally, suck?) was going to turn into something special, and very few would even turn into something adequate? Many knew it wasn't great, few knew it would be the worst just about in history.

I tend to doubt that you're right about measuring the value of what we can do. The only guy i really agree on is Drummond, though Im at a loss about Drummond, as he has a few of the most alarming defficiencies a player can have, he lacks a great motor, and doesn't seem to really love the game, and he doesnt seem to have a great BBIQ either. What's strange is that he works hard and produces defensively. That is something that is exceptionally rare for players, and almost never present in players with weak motors, and a lack of love for the game. He is confounding and I don't want him except that Im deeply intrigued by the fact that he has the highest potential of anyone in the draft other than Davis, but the problem, as you know, and everyone else does, is there is huge potential that he could not live up to the hype, and/or become such a colossal pain in the neck that his talent aint worth the trouble anyway.

However, as the recent article at SI mentioned, scouts think this draft is 4 guys deep, with a fifth wild card. I half agree with them, I also think a guy like PJ3 technically has the raw ability to be the star. I think there is no point whatsoever in dumping contracts with the pick, and getting solid role players. It gets us nowhere. There is no point in that. I would gladly trade our seconds, and pieces (I would gladly add a future #1) to move back into the top 10-15 to get another one of these players, i love the depth aspect in this draft, and next years draft could really suck (though there are a bunch of small forwards with some decent upside), but we have to come out of this draft with a piece that represents actual elite upside. That isn't represented in the guys you mentioned. Right now, this team probably has a 30+ win upside, add some role players, and maybe you get 38-44, but its still chum for the Heat, Pacers, and other 1-4 type seeds, and you no longer are in position to acquire an elite player from the draft. This draft features 1 guy with franchise changing talent, 2-3 guys with a possiblity of having it (MKG, Drummond, PJ3), another 2 guys with very good or better upside (Beal, and Robinson), and then that next tier. The next tier isn't good enough. We have a lot of role players, and solid guys already, we don't have many franchise changing players, period, we may not actually have ANY, if Wall doesn't turn out.

I respect your talent, and think you have a genuine eye for talent, but you've got a scouting mindset rather than a teambuilding one, which is why I'd hire you as a scout, but not a GM if I was an owner.

How much would you pay me?

My opinion: The more you know about me the more you'd like. You'd come around, Consiglieri. What would impress you the most is I can adapt. I learn more from when I'm wrong. Larry Bird is getting a lot of credit for this year's Pacers but he's been at the executive level 8 years. Any mistakes I would make I would try and learn from.

On what Scouts are saying: IMO this draft is way deeper than 4 or 5 guys. There's a huge gulf between Davis and the rest, but I'd say there are 10-12 players who will be marquee names for years to come. A lot of players who do not have guaranteed contracts next season will have left the league for good. Guys like Ben Wallace and Juwan are gone, as is Brad Miller. Opportunity drives who is going to make it as much as anything else. More opportunities will arise because some of the talent in this draft will surprise the majority of scouts who think there are 4 or 5 impact players. Sullinger should be written off. Harkless has talent and can defend. Nobody is saying a word about him now, but they will later. NIvek has mentioned Denmon and Crowder--who I think legitimately add to the 4 or 5 most scouts are talking about. Waiters should be very solid. John Henson is very young and IMO could become a highly successful defender in the NBA. Melo will also be an impact defender. I personally like Machado as much or more than any other PG. Those are the names I can think off the top I would add to the 4 or 5. Henson (like Cody Zeller) did a pretty good job holding his own against Anthony Davis, and they're all young. I would challenge any scout who thinks that's all there are only 4-5 impact players in this draft.

[Dat2U]

PS: This draft is way deeper than 4 or 5 guys. There's a huge gulf between Davis and the rest, but I'd say there are 10-12 players who will be marquee names for years to come. A lot of players who do not have guaranteed contracts next season will have left the league for good. Guys like Ben Wallace and Juwan are gone, as is Brad Miller. Opportunity drives who is going to make it as much as anything else. More opportunities will arise because some of the talent in this draft will surprise the majority of scouts who think there are 4 or 5 impact players. Sullinger should be written off. Harkless has talent and can defend. Nobody is saying a word about him now, but they will later. NIvek has mentioned Denmon and Crowder--who I think legitimately add to the 4 or 5 most scouts are talking about. Waiters should be very solid. John Henson is very young and IMO could become a highly successful defender in the NBA. Melo will also be an impact defender. I personally like Machado as much or more than any other PG.

There are a lot more than 4 or 5 guys who will make an impact. I would challenge any scout who thinks that's all there is.

There's a huge difference from saying more than 4 or 5 guys will make an impact (I agree) with suggesting that there are 10-12 marquee players in the draft. I can't think of many drafts that had 10-12 marquee players. I suspect there may be 10 or more players that will achieve a certain level of success and a sustained NBA career but marquee would seem to indicate elite or high level talent.

I think it's a fair estimation that there are only 4 to 5 true potential difference makers in the draft (elite level talent).

[The Consiglieri]

Consig, your writeup on Beal and MKG was great! I have goosebumps. COme on top 3 pick!!!

Well it's mostly quotes, but thanks, finishing 2nd was hugely important and exciting. We really need Drummond to blow up in his work outs. Scares me a little that it might make us interested, but if Drummond blows up, the chances that we could have Beal pushed to us in a worst case scenario situation become all the more likely. Seems like we have about a 55+% chance of landing a top 3 pick, and interesting to think about how our chances of getting Davis are higher than MKG. Quite odd. But yep, getting Beal or MKG would be a huge windfall if we didn't get the #1. Wonderful consolation prizes.

It's a tier thing CCJ. The bulk of the scouts believe this draft has two tiers that are relevant to us: #1 Davis, and #2 MKG, Beal, Robinson and the wild card Drummond (whom depending upon who you talk too, should be in tier 2 or not), there are other tiers of special and unique players, and many have commented for more than a year about the immense depth that this draft has. To me, it has the best depth, 6-25 or so, that I've EVER seen. I never see that many guys between 11-20, or 21-25 that I actually believe can not only start, but can actually start and become above average or good players. I think the depth of quality in this draft is unbelievable. The difference is that the GM's and scouts think the top end, the cream, is quite small, better than '09 and '11, but still quite quite small.

[hands11]

Picking the Drum would be as much a vote of no confidence for the other prospects than a vote o con for Drum. But it is interesting to note Bynum's rookie year FT% with la Lakeshow - 29.6% with a PER of 7.4 - granted in a fairly small sample size. It's easy to get down on developing bigs - as I was guilty with Superman Seraphin - and the Drum is still 18. Now that our culcha has changed so much, maybe it makes some sense to go with him and bring the Drum Slowly along (Btw, the book by Mark Harris was even better than the movie - Bang the Drum Slowly, that is. But if you read it, read The Southpaw first.).

But the problem with drafting projects - by the time you've gone through the blood, sweat, and tears developing them into real contributing NBA players, they're eligible for free agency.

+1

Portland developed Jermaine O'Neal, but he played his best basketball with Indianapolis. Chicago really didn't get much from Tyson Chandler before he broke out in New Orleans, and especially with Dallas. Darko Milicic never did pan out despite being picked 2nd.

Drummond seems risky to pick.

No way I would want Drummond. You don't draft a player that high who doesn't have a motor and clear commitment love of the game. Specially if they are a project so I would agree.

Swing for the fences is find now and then but I much prefer the strategy of building out depth with players in the 10-15 range or even later sometimes with players you know can do something you need right away and who are less expensive. Build quality depth. The Miami model of all your eggs in one basket at 16M and higher each is not a good model in my book.

Build solid year after year.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

PS: This draft is way deeper than 4 or 5 guys. There's a huge gulf between Davis and the rest, but I'd say there are 10-12 players who will be marquee names for years to come. A lot of players who do not have guaranteed contracts next season will have left the league for good. Guys like Ben Wallace and Juwan are gone, as is Brad Miller. Opportunity drives who is going to make it as much as anything else. More opportunities will arise because some of the talent in this draft will surprise the majority of scouts who think there are 4 or 5 impact players. Sullinger should be written off. Harkless has talent and can defend. Nobody is saying a word about him now, but they will later. NIvek has mentioned Denmon and Crowder--who I think legitimately add to the 4 or 5 most scouts are talking about. Waiters should be very solid. John Henson is very young and IMO could become a highly successful defender in the NBA. Melo will also be an impact defender. I personally like Machado as much or more than any other PG.

There are a lot more than 4 or 5 guys who will make an impact. I would challenge any scout who thinks that's all there is.

There's a huge difference from saying more than 4 or 5 guys will make an impact (I agree) with suggesting that there are 10-12 marquee players in the draft. I can't think of many drafts that had 10-12 marquee players. I suspect there may be 10 or more players that will achieve a certain level of success and a sustained NBA career but marquee would seem to indicate elite or high level talent.

I think it's a fair estimation that there are only 4 to 5 true potential difference makers in the draft (elite level talent).

What do you consider a difference maker? Give me a draft year, or a few, that suggest only 4 or 5 players making a difference was the norm. I would say 7 is the norm, and yes, that is just a guess.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Consig, your writeup on Beal and MKG was great! I have goosebumps. COme on top 3 pick!!!

Well it's mostly quotes, but thanks, finishing 2nd was hugely important and exciting. We really need Drummond to blow up in his work outs. Scares me a little that it might make us interested, but if Drummond blows up, the chances that we could have Beal pushed to us in a worst case scenario situation become all the more likely. Seems like we have about a 55+% chance of landing a top 3 pick, and interesting to think about how our chances of getting Davis are higher than MKG. Quite odd. But yep, getting Beal or MKG would be a huge windfall if we didn't get the #1. Wonderful consolation prizes.

It's a tier thing CCJ. The bulk of the scouts believe this draft has two tiers that are relevant to us: #1 Davis, and #2 MKG, Beal, Robinson and the wild card Drummond (whom depending upon who you talk too, should be in tier 2 or not), there are other tiers of special and unique players, and many have commented for more than a year about the immense depth that this draft has. To me, it has the best depth, 6-25 or so, that I've EVER seen. I never see that many guys between 11-20, or 21-25 that I actually believe can not only start, but can actually start and become above average or good players. I think the depth of quality in this draft is unbelievable. The difference is that the GM's and scouts think the top end, the cream, is quite small, better than '09 and '11, but still quite quite small.

Okay, now you're enlightening me, Consiglieri.

On tier two, talent-wise, I would say much-maligned Perry Jones could prove to be just as good as MKG, Beal, or Robinson 5 years down the line, with the right team. Same thing for Sullinger. Same thing for Barton, Waiters, Denmon, Crowder, and Tyler Zeller. As far as PHYSICAL TALENT goes, I would only add Perry Jones to that list per se.

Then again, I'm sorry, Terrence Jones in the right system could be a beast....

I'm just not on board with scouts this time, but what else is new.

[hands11]

CCJ, as others have said, you are amazing at picking out role players. If we were the Spurs, you are the first guy I would call. But, you keep thinking that the NBA is Moneyball. And I, and Dat, have always said that the NBA is part pro-wrestling. You need star players that are deemed star players by the refs, players and league. Otherwise, you don't get the breaks. You don't get the calls. You don't get the free agents. You go nowhere. We need a roster that people think OUGHT to win, so they will let us win. We need a superstar to pair with Wall. And we need to focus all of our attention on how to get one. Unless we get another star to pair with Wall soon, we'll be starting over again once his contract runs (or sooner). My two cents... Christ, I hope management gets the above...

You can get respect in more then one way. You can get a LeDouche or Griffless and the marketing gets you there. Or you can play solid basketball and have solid character players. Having less bone head embarrassing player on your team helps a lot so removing McGee and Nick will help next year.

Short of Dray, Ted/EG has assembled a group that has one marquee player in Wall. One very respected vet star with a great personality in Nene. One up and coming market worthy clean faced energy big in Ves. A smiley talented tough big in Keveen. Ah, who wouldn't like his hustle tough guy in Booker who is humble. And if they are invited back, players like Mason who is respected around the league in part because of his role in the CBA, and J Singleton who is another respectable hustle player.

This is not the marque model since we only have one of those. But it is a solid model. That group can win over the refs just buy playing solid ball. A Beal fits right in with the personality of that team as it is being constructed. So would Robinson or Zeller. They already showed they will play better so when they do it again next year, the refs will come along for the ride and call a more respectable game. I don't see the refs getting in our way next year like they have in the past.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Nivek, is John Shurna one of the players YODA has rated? If Novak was a good prospect I believe Shurna is a better than good prospect.

In round two there are great talents. Machado is a great assist generator. Drew Gordon is as good a rebounder, likely, as Thomas Robinson. Reggie Hamilton is as good at scoring as there is in this draft. He had a horrible Portsmouth Invitational Tourney, but I would go by his year in college and not some setting where he felt compelled to be a playmaker. If being a pot head didn't keep Klay Thompson out of the NBA, I think Terrell Stoglin in round two brings a lot of scoring as well.

Round two has real talented players that I haven't even mentioned. I think GMs are going to snatch up big men in round one. Ezeli and Melo are players I think will go in round one. Draymond Green I expect will fall. We've talked a whole lot about Crowder, Denmon, and Crowder; but not enough about Kevin Jones. The Miami Heat could use him about now IMO. There's a player named Eric Griffen from Campbell who is a flyer in the mold of Jeremy Evans and James Singleton. Kevin Murphy could surprise and be as effective as a lot of players with talk about a lot, like Doron Lamb, who will go in round one.

You're making the rounds of YODA's late 1st/2nd round guys.

All comments and ratings are pending additional information, of course.

Shurna rates as a borderline 1st round pick. Mixed bag on the numbers. Good 3pt shooting, bad from 2pt range. Low rebounding, but good shot blocking.

Machado, Griffin, Gordon, Melo and Hamilton all rate as borderline 1st/early 2nd round picks.

Ezeli is interesting. His junior year, he rated as a borderline 1st round pick, but as a senior he has a "don't draft" rating.

Stoglin -- borderline 2nd rounder.

YODA has Kevin Jones with a mid-1st round grade in a group with guys like Kendall Marshall, Moultrie, Barnes, English and Ratliffe. Pending measurements, of course.

YODA doesn't like Kevin Murphy a bit. Bad efficiency and unimpressive stats against weaker competition. Average size. Below average agility measured at the draft camp he attended. He played well there, but his college career was not impressive.

Some how, I missed this when you originally commented--actually getting work done today in addition to playing on the Internet.

Thanks, Kevin. I like Jones and Shurna. I'm not as high on English, Barnes, or Moultrie. Ratliffe can be a Brandon Bass. Murphy is a meh, DX had me interested, that's all.

[hands11]

Consig, your writeup on Beal and MKG was great! I have goosebumps. COme on top 3 pick!!!

Well it's mostly quotes, but thanks, finishing 2nd was hugely important and exciting. We really need Drummond to blow up in his work outs. Scares me a little that it might make us interested, but if Drummond blows up, the chances that we could have Beal pushed to us in a worst case scenario situation become all the more likely. Seems like we have about a 55+% chance of landing a top 3 pick, and interesting to think about how our chances of getting Davis are higher than MKG. Quite odd. But yep, getting Beal or MKG would be a huge windfall if we didn't get the #1. Wonderful consolation prizes.

It's a tier thing CCJ. The bulk of the scouts believe this draft has two tiers that are relevant to us: #1 Davis, and #2 MKG, Beal, Robinson and the wild card Drummond (whom depending upon who you talk too, should be in tier 2 or not), there are other tiers of special and unique players, and many have commented for more than a year about the immense depth that this draft has. To me, it has the best depth, 6-25 or so, that I've EVER seen. I never see that many guys between 11-20, or 21-25 that I actually believe can not only start, but can actually start and become above average or good players. I think the depth of quality in this draft is unbelievable. The difference is that the GM's and scouts think the top end, the cream, is quite small, better than '09 and '11, but still quite quite small.

Okay, now you're enlightening me, Consiglieri.

On tier two, talent-wise, I would say much-maligned Perry Jones could prove to be just as good as MKG, Beal, or Robinson 5 years down the line, with the right team. Same thing for Sullinger. Same thing for Barton, Waiters, Denmon, Crowder, and Tyler Zeller. As far as PHYSICAL TALENT goes, I would only add Perry Jones to that list per se.

Then again, I'm sorry, Terrence Jones in the right system could be a beast....

I'm just not on board with scouts this time, but what else is new.

Couldnt agree more. The guy that not many are talking about who I have a really good feeling is going to be a very solid player.

[dangermouse]

Drummond doesnt fit our team culture.

Maybe down the line we regret not taking him. Maybe. But thats definitely a bet i'd take.

[tontoz]

I would not consider Drummond even at 5. The NBA has a long history of drafting bigs like him too high. This might be the last high draft pick the Wizards get for a long time and they can't afford to waste it on a project.

Like others have said even if he does turn into a good player it probably won't be during his rookie contract.

[The Consiglieri]

Consig, your writeup on Beal and MKG was great! I have goosebumps. COme on top 3 pick!!!

Well it's mostly quotes, but thanks, finishing 2nd was hugely important and exciting. We really need Drummond to blow up in his work outs. Scares me a little that it might make us interested, but if Drummond blows up, the chances that we could have Beal pushed to us in a worst case scenario situation become all the more likely. Seems like we have about a 55+% chance of landing a top 3 pick, and interesting to think about how our chances of getting Davis are higher than MKG. Quite odd. But yep, getting Beal or MKG would be a huge windfall if we didn't get the #1. Wonderful consolation prizes.

It's a tier thing CCJ. The bulk of the scouts believe this draft has two tiers that are relevant to us: #1 Davis, and #2 MKG, Beal, Robinson and the wild card Drummond (whom depending upon who you talk too, should be in tier 2 or not), there are other tiers of special and unique players, and many have commented for more than a year about the immense depth that this draft has. To me, it has the best depth, 6-25 or so, that I've EVER seen. I never see that many guys between 11-20, or 21-25 that I actually believe can not only start, but can actually start and become above average or good players. I think the depth of quality in this draft is unbelievable. The difference is that the GM's and scouts think the top end, the cream, is quite small, better than '09 and '11, but still quite quite small.

Okay, now you're enlightening me, Consiglieri.

On tier two, talent-wise, I would say much-maligned Perry Jones could prove to be just as good as MKG, Beal, or Robinson 5 years down the line, with the right team. Same thing for Sullinger. Same thing for Barton, Waiters, Denmon, Crowder, and Tyler Zeller. As far as PHYSICAL TALENT goes, I would only add Perry Jones to that list per se.

Then again, I'm sorry, Terrence Jones in the right system could be a beast....

I'm just not on board with scouts this time, but what else is new.

Definitely agree with Jones, although I am rather skeptical that he'll ever become as good as he can be. Sully has a lower ceiling period, to me, though I think he has a good floor in terms of height. Barton, solid maybe, not sure if better than that, know thoughts on Crowder or Denmon, just not sure on either of them and didn't see them enough, I love Waiters upside, love it, and Zeller should be a solid pro, starter worthy, though I don't think he has a chance at being great, he does have a very solid chance of being an average starter and maybe a bit better. A few quotes on Waiters:

"I'm a huge, huge Waiters fan," gushed a Southeast exec -- that might precipitate a big jump in Draft position. He's a first-round pick, and he could go as high as the late lottery. Teams think he will be a great pick-and-roll guard in the pros.

"The wild card is Waiters," said a Pacific Division scout. "He's a little bit of a hybrid. He's not a point guard but he's not your traditional two guard. He's explosive -- the most explosive by far. Can make plays for people but it's not the number one thing on his agenda. He's someone that people see could really rise up -- maybe top 10."

Waiters gets high marks from scouts for his passing ability and his willingness to pass. He was one of the country's top sixth men....

"I like Dion," said a Northwest Division scout. "That's a manchild there. He's got that grown man body. And he's gonna hunt. You don't have to force that dog to hunt. The thing about him, coming into our league, he's already coming off the bench. So that's not gonna be an adjustment for him. He's got the body, he's strong, he's got bounce. He's just gotta get better with the deep ball."

The Pacific Division scout likens Waiters' explosiveness in the open court to Dwyane Wade.

Said a college coach whose team played Syracuse: "He can score and get his own shot. He can rise above you and shoot over the top. Athletic. Got a good body. He's more aggressive than Lamb. If you had to pick one of the two I would think he might be more ready to play at this level than Lamb. Lamb is a more consistent shooter but Waiters can jump above you. He can do everything. He's one of those guys that knows he can do it, too."

link: http://www.nba.com/news/features/david_ ... index.html

LOVE WAITERS.

[The Consiglieri]

Drummond doesnt fit our team culture.

Maybe down the line we regret not taking him. Maybe. But thats definitely a bet i'd take.

I have a hard time imagining we'd regret it too much if we landed 1,2 or 3, 4 or 5 is another thing entirely, at 4 or 5, the only compelling counterargument to Drummond is a trade down where we recoup 2 top 15 or so picks.

[hands11]

Less then two week to go till ping pong ball day. Sure will be nice to know where we are slotted.

May 30, 2012

[truwizfan4evr]

Less then two week to go till ping pong ball day. Sure will be nice to know where we are slotted.

May 30, 2012

It's 2 weeks away and I'm very nervous on who we will get i think if we miss out on the first overall pick i think the perfect pick would be third overall. I'm sure someone will take MKG and we be left to take Beal.

[closg00]

Pre-Draft workouts start tomorrow in NJ, here's a list of ESPN's Top-100 players who will be attending.

Evan Fournier: SG, France
Scott Machado: PG, Iona Gaels
Kyle O'Quinn: PF/C, Norfolk State Spartans
Jae Crowder: F, Marquette Golden Eagles
Marcus Denmon: SG, Missouri Tigers
Orlando Johnson: SG, UC Santa Barbara Gauchos
JaMychal Green: PF, Alabama Crimson Tide
Tu Holloway: PG, Xavier Musketeers
Alex Young: SG, IUPUI Jaguars
Darius Johnson-Odom: SG, Marquette
Ricardo Ratliffe: PF, Missouri
J'Covan Brown: G, Texas Longhorns
Drew Gordon: PF, New Mexico Lobos
Rakim Sanders: F, Fairfield Stags
Kris Joseph: F, Syracuse Orange
Tony Mitchell: G/F, Alabama
Mitchell Watt: F, Buffalo Bulls
Justin Hamilton: C, LSU Tigers
Kim English: SG, Missouri
Robert Sacre: C, Gonzaga Bulldogs
Casper Ware: PG, Long Beach State 49ers
John Shurna: F, Northwestern Wildcats
Mindaugas Kuspas: C, Lithuania
Terrell Stoglin: G, Maryland Terrapins
Ashton Gibbs: G, Pittsburgh Panthers
Renardo Sidney: F/C, Mississippi State Bulldogs
Xavier Gibson: F/C, Florida State Seminoles

[jangles86]

Watch Tony Mitchell shoot up charts. Crazy athlete