2011-12 RealGM Player of the Year Discussion Thread

MisterWestside · Post #201 » by **MisterWestside** » Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:04 pm

MisterWestside, sorry, if I gave the impression that Nowitzki would get full credit for each point scored when he is on the court, because that is not the case. And I really can't remember saying that at all. But when we have 12 years of data in which the the increase in offensive efficieny with Nowitzki is bigger than what we would expect by his boxscore numbers, we can either conclude that Nowitzki is the luckiest guy to ever play basketball, because just by coincedence he was on the court when his teammates made their shots while they were just unlucky to not make them when he was off, or we can conclude that Nowitzki brings value to the team off the ball. What do you think is more reasonable?

Again, I'm not saying Dirk isn't contributing to the game off the ball. I simply want to figure out what his total contribution to the team (including off-ball) is after you account for everything else (teammates, opponent, etc.) Even +/- numbers can be confounded by other factors. That's all.

Dr Positivity · Post #202 » by **Dr Positivity** » Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:12 pm

Game, Set, Lebron

JordansBulls · Post #203 » by **JordansBulls** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:20 pm

Dr Mufasa wrote:Game, Set, Lebron

Pretty much. League and finals mvp is automatically #1 for me.

GSP · Post #204 » by **GSP** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:52 pm

Im curious how everyone sees Wade VS Nash historically (AllTime) after this season? They are neck and neck imo and Wade didnt differentiate himself much this year honestly. If I did a 10 best Im not entirely sure Wade would be clearly above Nash for 2012. Then you have the missed games/inconsistency for Wade also......
Thoughts?

C-izMe · Post #205 » by **C-izMe** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:13 pm

GSP wrote:Im curious how everyone sees Wade VS Nash historically (AllTime) after this season? They are neck and neck imo and Wade didnt differentiate himself much this year honestly. If I did a 10 best Im not entirely sure Wade would be clearly above Nash for 2012. Then you have the missed games/inconsistency for Wade also......
Thoughts?

I'm going with Wade as of right now. I've already said that Wade/Nash/Clyde/Lebron are super close but I think that Lebron has pulled ahead and so has Wade. Wade's solidified his top 10 Finals performer title this year by having another good performance (after two amazing ones).

ronnymac2 · Post #206 » by **ronnymac2** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:52 am

Aaaaand the season is over.

therealbig3 · Post #207 » by **therealbig3** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:27 am

I go with Wade over Nash, but barely. I've got Wade at 18, and Nash at 20, IIRC.

MisterWestside · Post #208 » by **MisterWestside** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:44 am

therealbig3 wrote:I go with Wade over Nash, but barely. I've got Wade at 18, and Nash at 20, IIRC.

Barely? But he won a RING

JordansBulls · Post #209 » by **JordansBulls** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:59 am

therealbig3 wrote:I go with Wade over Nash, but barely. I've got Wade at 18, and Nash at 20, IIRC.

18th for the year?

therealbig3 · Post #210 » by **therealbig3** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:08 am

JordansBulls wrote:
therealbig3 wrote:I go with Wade over Nash, but barely. I've got Wade at 18, and Nash at 20, IIRC.

18th for the year?

I wasn't talking about the year, I was responding to GSP...he asked how do we see Wade vs Nash historically.

therealbig3 · Post #211 » by **therealbig3** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:14 am

MisterWestside wrote:
therealbig3 wrote:I go with Wade over Nash, but barely. I've got Wade at 18, and Nash at 20, IIRC.

Barely? But he won a RING

To answer the question further, I see Wade vs Nash as a watered down comparison of Magic vs Jordan. I think Jordan/Wade is the better player, but Nash/Magic are more impactful from a purely offensive stand point...considering both ends of the floor, however, and considering that Nash/Magic, although easier to build offenses around, are more dependent on teammates than Jordan/Wade (and thus, at least theoretically, but you can support this based on what we saw, they're more reliable "go-to" players in the playoffs), I lean towards Jordan/Wade as overall players.

Wade's mindset also strikes me as different than most volume scoring wings, in a good way. He seems more willing than most to pass and defer if the situation calls for it. And he's not usually someone with horrible shot selection, and will always look to attack the basket, which is a good thing also. Really, the only thing that has held Wade back from being mentioned with LeBron/Kobe more is his durability. If he stayed healthy in 07 and 08, we'd be hearing a lot more about him in terms of historical ranking. That's how good he is.

Vinsanity420 · Post #212 » by **Vinsanity420** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:12 am

Well, I forgot to put Wade in my original ranks. His consistency this year has been an issue with me... like, sometimes he's the awesome 2nd best player in the league, and sometimes he just flat out bails and disappears. Dude literally bailed out so much that Heat fans were going all WTF on this guy when the OKC series was shifting him. This guy legitimately had "father time or not" questions going at him. I don't think he'll be an elite player for too much longer... highly doubt he matches Kobe's longevity... but that's going off on a tangent.

I thought he had an Ok playoff run overall. Had plenty of bad moments, but also had some great ones - like against Indy late in that series. He missed a whole bunch of games from the regular season - 17 is a LOT in a 66 game season. In his time on court, 82games.com and RAPM numbers have him as a high impact player.

Beyond the Top 3 of LeBron, Durant and Paul... I have it wide open still. I don't see how Wade has really separated himself from the rest of the crew - which is Dirk, KG, Nash, Westbrook.

PTB Fan · Post #213 » by **PTB Fan** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:26 am

Now, there's no doubt about No.1

mysticbb · Post #214 » by **mysticbb** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:51 am

PTB Fan wrote:Now, there's no doubt about No.1

There really shouldn't.

My list:

1. LeBron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Chris Paul
4. Dirk Nowitzki
5. Kevin Garnett

HM: Dwyane Wade, Steve Nash

I suspect that Russell Westbrook and Bryant will get overrated. Both scored a lot, which seems to have a big impact in terms of value a player is assigned to.

An Unbiased Fan · Post #215 » by **An Unbiased Fan** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:17 pm

Hmmm...

1) LBJ
2) KD
3) Kobe
4) Westbrook
5) Paul

The first 2 are concrete, and from there everything is jumbled. I got Kobe at 3 since he was pretty much the 3rd best player for the regular season, and 3rd best in the playoffs. Westbrook jumped for me due to his playoff run. Paul gets the #5 nod because he was the clear engine for the Clippers all year, and the best PG for the year.

After that, I see a lot of good seasons, but none that would unseat my Top 5. KG was great on D, but overall not as good as CP3. And frankly, Rondo was Boston's best player this year. Dirk was good, but he dropped a bit. Parker fell off in the postseason for me.

litex · Post #216 » by **litex** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:47 pm

Its been a while since there was as clear-cut a number one player as there was this year.

ronnymac2 · Post #217 » by **ronnymac2** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:07 pm

litex wrote:Its been a while since there was as clear-cut a number one player as there was this year.

Yeah, 2010 seems like so long ago...

ardee · Post #218 » by **ardee** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:57 pm

ronnymac2 wrote:
litex wrote:Its been a while since there was as clear-cut a number one player as there was this year.

Yeah, 2010 seems like so long ago...

LeBron was the best regular season player. But, he was not the best Playoffs player, not even close (Kobe, Wade over him for sure, maybe Rondo). 2009 it could only be him. Then before that, 2004 was the last year where you couldn't argue it at all.

ronnymac2 · Post #219 » by **ronnymac2** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:02 pm

ardee wrote:
ronnymac2 wrote:
litex wrote:Its been a while since there was as clear-cut a number one player as there was this year.

Yeah, 2010 seems like so long ago...

LeBron was the best regular season player. But, he was not the best Playoffs player, not even close (Kobe, Wade over him for sure, maybe Rondo). 2009 it could only be him. Then before that, 2004 was the last year where you couldn't argue it at all.

No. LeBron James was the best player in 2010. One or two below-average games against Boston don't change that. He destroyed Chicago and had three or four dominant games against Boston. He received no help from his poor teammates. That's not his fault.

:lol:

at that little **** Rondo being included with James, Bryant, and Wade.

microfib4thewin · Post #220 » by **microfib4thewin** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:07 pm

There was no best playoff performer in 2010. Everyone had their fair share of flaws. Wade was the best performing player against Boston but didn't play enough games. Lebron fell below expectations. Rondo only went off against Cleveland and was terrible against Orlando and the Lakers. Kobe torched the Suns and the Jazz but struggled against OKC and Boston. On that merit we use the regular season to judge who the best player is, and that's Lebron by a good margin.