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Predict the Eastern Conference Standings

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Re: Predict the Eastern Conference Standings 

Post#101 » by closg00 » Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:29 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
fishercob wrote:While it's not so cut and dry, I think the new Bynumized Sixers are going to be a good measuring stick for the Wizards and a decent referendum on the OkaRiza deal.

If our frontcourt, of which Okafor will be a key part, can hang with and partially neutralize Bynum to the point where are are as good or better than Philly, I think the trade looks decent. If even with Okafor (to go along with Nene, Seraphin, Booker, Vesely), Bynum and Philly run roughshod over us, then the trade looks pretty pointless.

We should be able to -- we need to be able to -- hang with these guys. I am excited to see us match up.


Washington will be able to match up and beat Philly IMO. They lost a lot of pieces. Bynum will be virtually on an island now, with no Kobe or Pau to facilitate his easy scores around the bucket, while those two keep defenses honest. The offense around Bynum with the Sixers is much weaker than the offense around Bynum with the Lakers.


I think you might be underestimating what Doug Collins might be able to do with his new line-up CCJ, Collins will find a way to get the most out of that roster.
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Re: Predict the Eastern Conference Standings 

Post#102 » by Nivek » Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:09 pm

fishercob wrote:
closg00 wrote:*bump* I saw that most people had Philly out of the playoffs. Post-trade you have to put Philly ahead of the Wizards.


That may indeed be the case, but I'm not certain. Subtract Brand, Lou Williams, Vucevic, Iguodala, Meeks.

Add Bynum, Richardson, Nick Young, Wright, Moultrie.

I don't think they have a backup point guard. Evan Turner can't shoot and Richardson appears to be in steep decline.

If Bynum misses any significant time due to injury, they cuold fall apart pretty fast. That said, the blue print of Bynum, Holiday and shooters could work well. Health and improvement by Turner are critical.


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Re: Predict the Eastern Conference Standings 

Post#103 » by nate33 » Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:00 am

hermitkid wrote:The Sixers team is going to be tough to play against, but I wonder where their scoring is going to come from.

I see a lot of scores in the mid 70s to 80s in the Sixers future.

I think the Sixers will score just fine. Bynum is one of the better offensive bigs in the league. JRue Holiday is an above average offensive PG. Thad Young creates mismatches at PF on offense. Turner will improve offensively because he'll have the ball in his hands more. Nick Young and Dorrell Wright will space the floor.

If anything, the Sixers will have more trouble on D. Bynum can jam the middle, but other than that, they're not so good defensively at any other position except maybe SF. And Thad Young will have big problems defending PF's with size.
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Re: Predict the Eastern Conference Standings 

Post#104 » by closg00 » Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:39 pm

Who Will Battle For Eighth In The East?

Washington Wizards, 20-46 last season
Washington has cleared out a dysfunctional locker room and replaced the misfiring pieces with solid veterans. Next season, John Wall will have Nene, Trevor Ariza and Emeka Okafor to work with plus third-overall pick Bradley Beal at shooting guard.

The Wizards have improved dramatically from the self-centered group that started last season and this new environment is one in which young players like Jan Vesely, Kevin Seraphin, Trevor Booker and Jordan Crawford should be able to develop in. However, they will have to exceed expectations to be in the hunt for the eighth seed and the only reason the teams ranked ahead of them have to be concerned is just how much better Wall will be when he’s not surrounded by knuckleheads.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/who-will-batt ... -the-east/
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Re: Predict the Eastern Conference Standings 

Post#105 » by nate33 » Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:22 pm

closg00 wrote:
Who Will Battle For Eighth In The East?

Washington Wizards, 20-46 last season
Washington has cleared out a dysfunctional locker room and replaced the misfiring pieces with solid veterans. Next season, John Wall will have Nene, Trevor Ariza and Emeka Okafor to work with plus third-overall pick Bradley Beal at shooting guard.

The Wizards have improved dramatically from the self-centered group that started last season and this new environment is one in which young players like Jan Vesely, Kevin Seraphin, Trevor Booker and Jordan Crawford should be able to develop in. However, they will have to exceed expectations to be in the hunt for the eighth seed and the only reason the teams ranked ahead of them have to be concerned is just how much better Wall will be when he’s not surrounded by knuckleheads.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/who-will-batt ... -the-east/

That's a reasonably fair assessment. I think everyone is completely discounting how much better Nene is defensively than McGee though. It seems that nobody is giving us any credit whatsoever for the improvement the team made post trade. Oh well. No sense whining about it. I look forward to the Wizards proving everyone wrong.
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Re: Predict the Eastern Conference Standings 

Post#106 » by verbal8 » Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:04 pm

nate33 wrote:
closg00 wrote:
Who Will Battle For Eighth In The East?

Washington Wizards, 20-46 last season
Washington has cleared out a dysfunctional locker room and replaced the misfiring pieces with solid veterans. Next season, John Wall will have Nene, Trevor Ariza and Emeka Okafor to work with plus third-overall pick Bradley Beal at shooting guard.

The Wizards have improved dramatically from the self-centered group that started last season and this new environment is one in which young players like Jan Vesely, Kevin Seraphin, Trevor Booker and Jordan Crawford should be able to develop in. However, they will have to exceed expectations to be in the hunt for the eighth seed and the only reason the teams ranked ahead of them have to be concerned is just how much better Wall will be when he’s not surrounded by knuckleheads.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/who-will-batt ... -the-east/

That's a reasonably fair assessment. I think everyone is completely discounting how much better Nene is defensively than McGee though. It seems that nobody is giving us any credit whatsoever for the improvement the team made post trade. Oh well. No sense whining about it. I look forward to the Wizards proving everyone wrong.


I agree it seems pretty reasonable. I think there will likely be more turnover in the Eastern Play-off teams than they expect. They seem to think that 6 of the teams are pretty much locks to return and the Nets a lock to join them. I really only see Miami, Indiana and Chicago as "locks". I think Boston still has enough left for one of two runs, but you have to think their age makes them more vulnerable to injury concerns than most teams.

The Sixers and Nets seem like play-off teams on paper, but we all know they don't play the games on paper. I also think the Knicks chemistry issues are more significant than the writer does. I could see their backcourt ending up as a complete disaster.
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Re: Predict the Eastern Conference Standings 

Post#107 » by closg00 » Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:25 pm

Let’s Rank the NBA’s Eastern Conference
11. Washington Wizards, 20-46 last season

Key Additions: Trevor Ariza, Emeka Okafor
Key Subtractions: Andray Blatche, Rashard Lewis
Key Draft Additions: Bradley Beal

The Wizards finally admitted that what they were doing wasn’t working and started moving out the question marks last season. Amnestying Andray Blatche was the final step in that process. They now have a solid core of veterans, mostly on short-term deals, to mentor their young players and provide budding star John Wall a much better environment in which to play.

Nene, Emeka Okafor and Trevor Ariza are the present, but this team is all about Wall, Bradley Beal, Jan Vesely, Kevin Seraphin, Trevor Booker and Jordan Crawford going forward, and any short-term success will be riding on how fast the 21-year-old Wall can become the All-Star point guard envisioned when he was drafted. It will take time, but the future in Washington is starting to look pretty good.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/lets-rank-the ... conference

Not surprised that they have us ranked 11th, but I am surprised that they have Toronto at 8.
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Re: Predict the Eastern Conference Standings 

Post#108 » by nate33 » Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:43 pm

It's weird. Everyone credits us modestly for adding Okafor, Ariza and Beal, but they don't notice the addition of Nene, who is better than all of those guys. The conventional wisdom is: "hey, they went 20-46 with Nene so they're not that good." But in reality they went 7-4 with Nene, or to look at it pessimistically, they went 11-14 post trade (with Nene missing 14 of those games).
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Re: Predict the Eastern Conference Standings 

Post#109 » by Dat2U » Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:30 pm

Nate, maybe these analysts correctly recognize we still can't score. Outside of a rookie with a better rep than actual performance, who's making outside shots on this team?
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Re: Predict the Eastern Conference Standings 

Post#110 » by Kanyewest » Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:36 pm

nate33 wrote:It's weird. Everyone credits us modestly for adding Okafor, Ariza and Beal, but they don't notice the addition of Nene, who is better than all of those guys. The conventional wisdom is: "hey, they went 20-46 with Nene so they're not that good." But in reality they went 7-4 with Nene, or to look at it pessimistically, they went 11-14 post trade (with Nene missing 14 of those games).


11 games is still a small sample size especially since a fwe of those wins came against non competitive teams like the Bulls without Rose and Miami without its entire big 3.
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Re: Predict the Eastern Conference Standings 

Post#111 » by nate33 » Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:44 pm

Kanyewest wrote:
nate33 wrote:It's weird. Everyone credits us modestly for adding Okafor, Ariza and Beal, but they don't notice the addition of Nene, who is better than all of those guys. The conventional wisdom is: "hey, they went 20-46 with Nene so they're not that good." But in reality they went 7-4 with Nene, or to look at it pessimistically, they went 11-14 post trade (with Nene missing 14 of those games).


11 games is still a small sample size especially since a fwe of those wins came against non competitive teams like the Bulls without Rose and Miami without its entire big 3.

That's fine. Then we should be viewed as a team that added Okafor, Ariza, Beal and Nene to last year's lousy team. That's all I'm saying. Nobody is giving us credit for adding Nene: a top 10 center.
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Re: Predict the Eastern Conference Standings 

Post#112 » by veji1 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:25 am

For me the wizards will be battling to get in the POs. I see a finish between 7th and 10th for them with a record somewhere in the area of 38 to 44 victories.
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Re: Predict the Eastern Conference Standings 

Post#113 » by verbal8 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:33 am

veji1 wrote:For me the wizards will be battling to get in the POs. I see a finish between 7th and 10th for them with a record somewhere in the area of 38 to 44 victories.


I think agree with that range for the Wizards. I see some areas of improvement, but the team still has some serious question marks. Outside shooting is the biggest issue. Position-wise SF leaves a lot to be desired. At SG the options are a rookie and Jordan Crawford. I think Beal will eventually be a big upgrade over Crawford or Nick Young, but for next season I am not expecting a huge difference.

I think the significant changes that will affect the standings next season are:
upgrade of Nene over McGee
subtraction of Blatche
improvement of Wall and Seraphin
increased depth
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Re: Predict the Eastern Conference Standings 

Post#114 » by hands11 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:17 pm

veji1 wrote:For me the wizards will be battling to get in the POs. I see a finish between 7th and 10th for them with a record somewhere in the area of 38 to 44 victories.


It is really hard to guess the win totals this year.

Nene 7th pick. The small sample size last year makes projecting his impact more of a question mark and so does his lingering foot issue. On the upside projection.. Nene is a really good player who has found a new home in Washington were he is an important leader of the team and he has the green light to score.

Wall #1 pick. He was the consensus #1 and the kid clearly has talent. Is his two years here he has never had even the semblance of a solid starting line up to run with even close to what they have now. He never had reliable post players like Nene and Okafor. And after last year, you have to count KS into that mix. Wall just learned to change speed last year and that was huge for him regarding what he can do on the floor. The only big question left for Wall is his J and as bad as it has been, he showed mini streaks of finding it last year. If he has fixed the J, skies the limits for him. That will have a huge impact of the teams win totals.

Beal #3 pick. He will be a rookie so it would be hard to ink him in for 20 pts a game but most agree the kid is talent and a solid person who should learn quickly.

Thats a solid core 3 players at PG, SG and PF/C but they haven't even played one game together and Nene was only around at the end of the year. I can see why people have questions.

Add to that.

Okafor. #2 pick. I think many expected more from him as the #2 pick but he is a solid rebounder and a double double machine.

Keveen. 17th pick. Young buck sets nice picks and has shown a nice post and mid range game. The kid can score and he is now confident in taking his shots in the post. Randy believes in him and he will only get better this year.

So that's PG, SG and 3 PF/Cs

That is even more solid of a core. And that doesn't even mention what Ves adds and Booker as bench players. But they haven't played together yet so there are questions. And when you start with question about your core adding these names adds more. Trevor A as SF, Crawford, C Singleton, AJ Price

So you can see they have a nice core with talent but we have none of this together and their are few proven players so its easy to see people have concerns. But there is talent there. A lot will depend on how quickly they get out of the gate.
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Re: Predict the Eastern Conference Standings 

Post#115 » by closg00 » Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:05 pm

13. Washington Wizards: 30.2 | 3.0 Washington's new veteran frontline of Nene, Emeka Okafor and Trevor Ariza should help solidify the Wizards on the defensive end. Unfortunately, the offense still projects as one of the league's most inefficient. However, that could change fast if John Wall's production begins to match his elite potential.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/ ... rojections

More low-expectations for the Wizards. We just have to hope that we will be the surprise team this year.
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Re: Predict the Eastern Conference Standings 

Post#116 » by I_Like_Dirt » Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:55 pm

nate33 wrote:It's weird. Everyone credits us modestly for adding Okafor, Ariza and Beal, but they don't notice the addition of Nene, who is better than all of those guys. The conventional wisdom is: "hey, they went 20-46 with Nene so they're not that good." But in reality they went 7-4 with Nene, or to look at it pessimistically, they went 11-14 post trade (with Nene missing 14 of those games).


I don't think it's so much pessimistic to look at it as 11-14. Yeah, the team may have been holding out Nene in situations where he might have played due to the team being toast for the season anyway. Still, given the Wizards medical staff history, it isn't beyond the realm of reason to assume that Nene might suddenly miss more games as a Wizard than he would for the Nuggets.

More importantly, though, I do think a lot of people tend to take late season winning streaks by teams already out of the playoffs with a grain of salt. Especially last season, teams were tanking like crazy and the Wizards were no exception. Good teams were being extra careful with their stars due to the compressed schedule. Teams that had made the playoffs were just gassed and wanted to rest their players heading into the playoffs. Post-trade analysis is generally a decent way to look at things, but having it overlap with a late season surge of sorts under those circumstances really makes it tough to gauge the nature of the improvement. I remember the Chandler/Curry/Crawford Bulls constantly going on late-season winning streaks to finish with 33 wins on the season only to have everybody predict that they would break out next season as they were suddenly winning. Things are different towards the end of a normal NBA season and those differences were magnified last season.

I think the Wizards are improved more than some of the prognosticators suggest, but Iuntil they show their improvement when it matters and other teams are trying, I think it's pretty safe to put them in the same ballpark as teams like the Raptors, Cavaliers, Pistons, Bucks and maybe the Sixers.
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Re: Predict the Eastern Conference Standings 

Post#117 » by rockymac52 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:02 am

Even though every time I read one of those articles with predictions for this upcoming season, I hope for somebody to finally say something good about the Wizards, I can't honestly expect anyone to put us anywhere but in the bottom 5 of the Eastern Conference.

The sad reality is we've been a terrible franchise over the last few years, and it's given a terrible image. Furthermore, we've lost a ton of games in the last few seasons, so there's little reason to expect anything different from us until we actually go out there and prove it, and in a meaningful and significant way for a prolonged period of time, to the point where there's no denying that we're at least decent.

Listen, we have already clearly established on these boards that there's reason for hope, and that post-trade (and ESPECIALLY when Nene was active), we not only had a much better W-L record, but we posted straight up INCREDIBLE defensive efficiency stats, which are some of the most meaningful stats out there, IMO. But at the same time, we all know there were extenuating circumstances. It was a small sample size post-trade. It was an even smaller sample size with Nene in the lineup. Those famous last 6 games could very well be the result of the opposing teams resting their better players and not playing hard because they had no incentive to play hard. You can decide for yourself which of those points you believe in, one way or the other, that's not what's important. But at the end of the day, even if you want to believe in all of those stats (I personally am willing to buy in, except for perhaps the 6 wins in the last 6 games, but we played very well in those games statistically), you can't forget that if that's the case, that's the absolute best case scenario that we're looking at. Sure, it's possible it was all legitimate. But most likely 1 or 2 of those things, at the very least, were misleading about our skills at the time and our skills going forward. So just keep that in mind, and try not to get too carried away.

However, with that said, I am incredibly optimistic about this team, and I expect us to make the playoffs this year (or miss out by literally 1 or 2 games at most). The main reason I'm a believer in this team is our defensive efficiency stats from last season. Nate has posted them several times over the last month or two, and he's laid it out very simply, so for the most part, I'm not even going to try and replicate that. I believe our defensive efficiency stats post-trade put as at something like 7th best in the league, and our defensive efficiency stats with Nene in the lineup would have put us at 1st in the league by a large margin. The stats we put up with Nene in 11 games are most likely partly the effect of a small sample size, as well as the fact that several of those games came in those infamous final 6 wins to end the season. BUT, even if that is the case, it's only partially effecting the big picture. Okay maybe we wouldn't have lead the league by a large margin, or maybe we wouldn't have even lead the league, but I'd like to think we're better defensively with Nene than without, and if we were anything close to 7th best without him, then surely we could be top 5 with him.

The top 5 teams in defensive efficiency are always damn good teams. This last season, it went like this:
1. Bulls (1 seed)
2. Celtics (4 seed)
3. 76ers (8 seed)
4. Heat (2 seed)
5. Knicks (7 seed)

The year before it went like this:
1. Bulls (1 seed)
2. Celtics (3 seed)
3. Magic (4 seed)
4. Bucks (9th place, 2 games back) (although had a negative efficiency differential, as their offense was literally last in the NBA)
5. Heat (2 seed)

The year before it went like this:
1. Magic (2 seed)
2. Bobcats (7 seed)
3. Heat (5 seed)
4. Bucks (6 seed)
5. Celtics (4 seed) / Lakers (1 seed)

Check out this website if you want to look at more years and more numbers: http://www.hoopdata.com/teamadvancedsta ... 12&type=pg

Hopefully you get my point by now. If you have a top 5 defensive efficiency, chances are you're going to make the playoffs, even if your offensive efficiency is god awful. Also, I don't know if there's an explanation for this or not, but it's interesting how the top 5 teams for the last 3 years have ALL been from the Eastern Conference, other than the Lakers tying for 5th 3 years ago. Just noticed that for the first time.

Anyways, this is what I'm hoping for. A truly elite defense. Those numbers that nate has talked about that I referenced before about our defensive efficiency stats post-trade and w/ Nene are a really good sign of things to come. And don't forget, that's what we did without Okafor (a very good defender), without Ariza (a pretty solid defender), without Price (okay, let's be real, who cares about Price), and without Beal (who sounds like he could be okay on D, but the jury's still out on this one obviously). In theory, our defense should be better now than it was last year with these players on board. Even if last year's numbers were a freak statistic accident, the reality is our defense will be better than it was before we got these guys, the question is how much better? We also have a full offseason to establish defensive schemes and technicalities and whatnot, which is huge for us given how many key players we have that weren't with us last offseason, and how many young players who really could have benefited from a real full offseason as opposed to what they had last year. Not to mention it wasn't completely with Wittman, anyways. Then go ahead and throw in the possibility of noticeable improvement on defense (and everything else, to be fair) from guys like Wall, Seraphin, Singleton, and Vesely. Hell, I hate the guy, but who knows, maybe even Jordan Crawford will come back with something better to offer.

What it all adds up to is a defense that will be better (possibly much better) than what we had last year (even at the end of the season). It's definitely partly the optimist/homer in me, but I really believe this team can be one of the elite teams in defensive efficiency this coming season, which will lead us to a playoff birth.
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Re: Predict the Eastern Conference Standings 

Post#118 » by rockymac52 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:17 am

Furthermore, that's why I'm not focusing on offense. Clearly the offense has a lot of work to do, and we could very well be absolutely miserable on that side of the ball. But like the Bucks demonstrated 2 years ago, if you have a top 5 defensive efficiency, the only way you miss out on the playoffs is if you offense is downright awful, as in, last in the league awful - and even then you'll only miss out on the playoffs by 2 games! That's encouraging to me.

For once, I'm not concerned about our team's cliche biggest problem - John Wall's jump shot. Yes, I have very high expectations for Wall as the future star of this franchise, and I'd be lying if I said I haven't second-guessed his ability to become that in the last year or so at times. And yes, I think in general, our team will be that much better if Wall could shoot the ball even decently. I mean, how could it not make us a better team, at least somewhat?

HOWEVER, I don't think our success hinges on his ability to develop a jump shot and/or his ability to become a star. I firmly believe that we will be able to make the playoffs, albeit perhaps only as an 8 or 7 seed for now, solely on our defensive efficiency. I genuinely and wholeheartedly do.

Things like Wall developing a jump shot and/or becoming a true star PG, Beal turning out to be a top notch SG (let's say Harden-esque, because it's the go-to comparison these days), and Vesely or Seraphin developing into genuinely GOOD players are what could theoretically take this team from playoff contender who gets bumped in the 1st round, to legitimate championship contenders.

But the first step is defense. Plain and simple. Become a tough team to play against. Become a defensive force that singlehandedly pushes us into the playoffs as an 8 or 7 seed. Become respectable again. THEN, and only then, we make our move to championship contenders. THEN we can obsess and freak out about Wall's jumps hot. THEN we look to consolidate some of our talent, possibly into a big name player. Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. If Wall comes back with a jump shot this season, AWESOME. If Beal is ready to ball from day one, AWESOME. If Vesely or Seraphin or someone else makes a huge jump and turns into a real good player, AWESOME. That's all icing on the cake. Let's just play some damn good defense and get into the playoff mix first. We can do this. It is realistic.
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Re: Predict the Eastern Conference Standings 

Post#119 » by hands11 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:41 am

Yes and Yes. This is what they were focused on first and they have added some hope for improvement on the second part with Beal and even Trevor A at SF where they literally had nothing offensively.

I can't wait for them to start practicing.

I still hope they add someone like Livingston at PG. It could have a big impact to a solid defensive roster with a still young PG.
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Re: Predict the Eastern Conference Standings 

Post#120 » by verbal8 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:08 pm

rockymac52 wrote:Furthermore, that's why I'm not focusing on offense. Clearly the offense has a lot of work to do, and we could very well be absolutely miserable on that side of the ball. But like the Bucks demonstrated 2 years ago, if you have a top 5 defensive efficiency, the only way you miss out on the playoffs is if you offense is downright awful, as in, last in the league awful - and even then you'll only miss out on the playoffs by 2 games! That's encouraging to me.


Defense does seem to be a common theme with "overachieving" teams, like the Sixers last season. I think an elite defense is the only chance the Wizards have of being a true championship contender. One thing about the young core is they all seem to have the potential to be very good defenders. Some of them like SIngleton and Vesley the question is will their offense be good enough to become starters/top subs.

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