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Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part III

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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part III 

Post#1181 » by nate33 » Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:42 pm

fishercob wrote:Phenomenal article on Gorgui Deng.

Hard not to root for the guy.

From the article:
And he's a real basketball player. When he arrived at U of L, he didn't even realize that an offensive foul counted against your foul total in a game. From there, he became a student of the game, quarterbacking the Cardinals' zone defense with constant instruction from the back line.

He developed his offensive game methodically, working on his hands, then developing short-range shots. As a junior, his mid-range jumper became a weapon.

And by the end of his junior year, he was posting games with 6 or 8 assists while maintaining exceptional Blks+Stls/PF's ratios. His history indicates an extremely high basketball IQ that's only going to get better over time. At this point, I'd take him over every other big man in the draft except Noel. Give me Dieng at #8 rather than Len, Olynyk or Zeller. My only concern is his size. I reserve the right to change this opinion of he measures out to be pretty short with a PF's reach.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part III 

Post#1182 » by nuposse04 » Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:13 pm

nate33 wrote:
fishercob wrote:Phenomenal article on Gorgui Deng.

Hard not to root for the guy.

From the article:
And he's a real basketball player. When he arrived at U of L, he didn't even realize that an offensive foul counted against your foul total in a game. From there, he became a student of the game, quarterbacking the Cardinals' zone defense with constant instruction from the back line.

He developed his offensive game methodically, working on his hands, then developing short-range shots. As a junior, his mid-range jumper became a weapon.

And by the end of his junior year, he was posting games with 6 or 8 assists while maintaining exceptional Blks+Stls/PF's ratios. His history indicates an extremely high basketball IQ that's only going to get better over time. At this point, I'd take him over every other big man in the draft except Noel. Give me Dieng at #8 rather than Len, Olynyk or Zeller. My only concern is his size. I reserve the right to change this opinion of he measures out to be pretty short with a PF's reach.


Well, the first article on DX has him 6'10 with a 7'6 wingspan...I don't see a 7'6 wingspan to be honest..maybe 7'3 or 2. That is still good enough though. I actually think the Thunder should take him. He can come in and play Immediately and give good minutes, and still has a few years to add a bit more to his arsenal. I still think Len will have a better peak then him, as would have Austin, but he's returning next season (good for him) so that may be moot.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part III 

Post#1183 » by fishercob » Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:11 pm

nate33 wrote:
fishercob wrote:Phenomenal article on Gorgui Deng.

Hard not to root for the guy.

From the article:
And he's a real basketball player. When he arrived at U of L, he didn't even realize that an offensive foul counted against your foul total in a game. From there, he became a student of the game, quarterbacking the Cardinals' zone defense with constant instruction from the back line.

He developed his offensive game methodically, working on his hands, then developing short-range shots. As a junior, his mid-range jumper became a weapon.

And by the end of his junior year, he was posting games with 6 or 8 assists while maintaining exceptional Blks+Stls/PF's ratios. His history indicates an extremely high basketball IQ that's only going to get better over time. At this point, I'd take him over every other big man in the draft except Noel. Give me Dieng at #8 rather than Len, Olynyk or Zeller. My only concern is his size. I reserve the right to change this opinion of he measures out to be pretty short with a PF's reach.


I'm not sure about him over Len, though I won't do the analysis needed to make that call. Len showed up two years ago not being able to speak English. He's come a pretty long way himself and he's 4 years younger than Dieng, is bigger, and has the potential to be a lot bigger.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part III 

Post#1184 » by Brenice » Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:16 pm

nate33 wrote:From the article:
And he's a real basketball player. When he arrived at U of L, he didn't even realize that an offensive foul counted against your foul total in a game. From there, he became a student of the game, quarterbacking the Cardinals' zone defense with constant instruction from the back line.

He developed his offensive game methodically, working on his hands, then developing short-range shots. As a junior, his mid-range jumper became a weapon.

And by the end of his junior year, he was posting games with 6 or 8 assists while maintaining exceptional Blks+Stls/PF's ratios. His history indicates an extremely high basketball IQ that's only going to get better over time. At this point, I'd take him over every other big man in the draft except Noel. Give me Dieng at #8 rather than Len, Olynyk or Zeller. My only concern is his size. I reserve the right to change this opinion of he measures out to be pretty short with a PF's reach.


How about this comparison. Does anybody remember Olajuwon as a FRESHMAN at U. of Houston? I am not saying Dieng will be Hakeem as a professional, but Hakeem was green as grass as a freshman.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part III 

Post#1185 » by Induveca » Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:16 pm

Same here, from what I've seen I'd also take Dieng over all centers except Noel.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part III 

Post#1186 » by DCZards » Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:26 pm

Brenice wrote:
How about this comparison. Does anybody remember Olajuwon as a FRESHMAN at U. of Houston? I am not saying Dieng will be Hakeem as a professional, but Hakeem was green as grass as a freshman.


I don't see the comparison. By his junior year, my recall is that Olajuwon had shown a more polished and all-around offensive game than Dieng has shown thus far. Having said that, I like Dieng...a LOT...his smarts, his team-first attitude, his size and his upside. But, at this point, I'm not taking Dieng with a top ten pick...and I'm definitely not taking him over Len, who has a world of potential and most likely will go in the top 5.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part III 

Post#1187 » by Ruzious » Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:07 pm

Brenice wrote:
nate33 wrote:From the article:
And he's a real basketball player. When he arrived at U of L, he didn't even realize that an offensive foul counted against your foul total in a game. From there, he became a student of the game, quarterbacking the Cardinals' zone defense with constant instruction from the back line.

He developed his offensive game methodically, working on his hands, then developing short-range shots. As a junior, his mid-range jumper became a weapon.

And by the end of his junior year, he was posting games with 6 or 8 assists while maintaining exceptional Blks+Stls/PF's ratios. His history indicates an extremely high basketball IQ that's only going to get better over time. At this point, I'd take him over every other big man in the draft except Noel. Give me Dieng at #8 rather than Len, Olynyk or Zeller. My only concern is his size. I reserve the right to change this opinion of he measures out to be pretty short with a PF's reach.


How about this comparison. Does anybody remember Olajuwon as a FRESHMAN at U. of Houston? I am not saying Dieng will be Hakeem as a professional, but Hakeem was green as grass as a freshman.

Yes, but keep in mind that Olajuwon was probably 18 years old then, and Dieng is at 23 - and Olajuwon was already better then than Dieng. And I believe Olajuwon was more into soccer than basketball growing up.

Imo - humble as it may be, NC State beating that Houston team was almost as much of a miracle as the US beating Russia in hockey in the Olympics. Houston was absurdly talented - I think the most talented college team of all time - including the Alcindor and Walton UCLA teams. I know someone's going to try to hammer me for saying that - it's just my opinion.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part III 

Post#1188 » by sfam » Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:26 pm

DCZards wrote:
Brenice wrote:
How about this comparison. Does anybody remember Olajuwon as a FRESHMAN at U. of Houston? I am not saying Dieng will be Hakeem as a professional, but Hakeem was green as grass as a freshman.


I don't see the comparison. By his junior year, my recall is that Olajuwon had shown a more polished and all-around offensive game than Dieng has shown thus far. Having said that, I like Dieng...a LOT...his smarts, his team-first attitude, his size and his upside. But, at this point, I'm not taking Dieng with a top ten pick...and I'm definitely not taking him over Len, who has a world of potential and most likely will go in the top 5.

Olajuwon was greased lightning fast. Dieng is good but not fast. He will have nowhere near the impact of Olajuwon.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part III 

Post#1189 » by sfam » Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:32 pm

Ruzious wrote:
Brenice wrote:
nate33 wrote:From the article:
[quote]And he's a real basketball player. When he arrived at U of L, he didn't even realize that an offensive foul counted against your foul total in a game. From there, he became a student of the game, quarterbacking the Cardinals' zone defense with constant instruction from the back line.

He developed his offensive game methodically, working on his hands, then developing short-range shots. As a junior, his mid-range jumper became a weapon.

And by the end of his junior year, he was posting games with 6 or 8 assists while maintaining exceptional Blks+Stls/PF's ratios. His history indicates an extremely high basketball IQ that's only going to get better over time. At this point, I'd take him over every other big man in the draft except Noel. Give me Dieng at #8 rather than Len, Olynyk or Zeller. My only concern is his size. I reserve the right to change this opinion of he measures out to be pretty short with a PF's reach.


How about this comparison. Does anybody remember Olajuwon as a FRESHMAN at U. of Houston? I am not saying Dieng will be Hakeem as a professional, but Hakeem was green as grass as a freshman.

Yes, but keep in mind that Olajuwon was probably 18 years old then, and Dieng is at 23 - and Olajuwon was already better then than Dieng. And I believe Olajuwon was more into soccer than basketball growing up.

Imo - humble as it may be, NC State beating that Houston team was almost as much of a miracle as the US beating Russia in hockey in the Olympics. Houston was absurdly talented - I think the most talented college team of all time - including the Alcindor and Walton UCLA teams. I know someone's going to try to hammer me for saying that - it's just my opinion.[/quote]

Clyde the Glide Drexler and Olajuwon of Phi Slamma Jamma had no business losing to NC State. I agree, it was virtually impossible.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part III 

Post#1190 » by hands11 » Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:43 pm

fishercob wrote:Phenomenal article on Gorgui Deng.

Hard not to root for the guy.


Awesome find Fish.

But it was posted it in here Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:53 am :wink:

Pretty amazing stuff about his family. Strong character to go with that athletic body and his skills. Like I recently posted, if he goes 16th, someone is going to get a great value. If he was younger, he would go a lot higher.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part III 

Post#1191 » by gambitx777 » Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:51 am

Yeah, there are some really good older players in this draft that are ready to ball now ! some of the younger guys are projects. I'm fine with picking up a couple of the seniors, they could add a lot to our team, no hating on the younger up side guys, im just saying.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part III 

Post#1192 » by hands11 » Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:05 am

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketba ... -to-return

Was this posted yet.

Isaiah Austin out of the draft.


http://www.orlandopinstripedpost.com/20 ... ando-magic

On Friday, a rumor that Oklahoma State Cowboys guard Marcus Smart was considering reneging on his commitment to return to school for a sophomore season began circulating, but a report from John Helsey of NewsOK.com indicates that Friday's rumor was false. Smart will not declare for the 2013 NBA Draft.

"A source told me Friday night that Smart laughed off the report, confirming that he’s still committed to being a Cowboy," Helsey writes.

The deadline for players to enter their names in the 2013 NBA Draft pool is Sunday, April 28th, at 11:59 PM Eastern.

So I guess that's it.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part III 

Post#1193 » by gambitx777 » Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:09 am

Good for him, he was likely going to be this years perry jones any way.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part III 

Post#1194 » by Deeptu McPullup » Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:12 am

The Consiglieri wrote:I would trade out for '14, not sure who'd be stupid enough to do that, but I'm sure you could swing a deal with someone whose sure they'll be in the playoffs and worried for their job (basically, another E.G.). There are a few guys I'd consider drafting at slot: Bennett, Len, Muhammad, but after that I'd trade the pick for '14 ammo. '14 draft is miles better, and if those guys are gone, I'd just rather have ammo to trade up with, and go with what we have, which appeared to be a 44-48 win team if its healthy in '13-'14.


This has almost no chance of happening with the number of protected 2014 picks already traded and the Stepien Rule, which won't allow teams to get into positions where they could owe picks in consecutive years.

http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/summary/2014

You'll see that Charlotte, Dallas, Detroit, Minnesota, Philadelphia, Portland and Sacramento have protected picks out next year already. The protection is such that only a very few of them are likely to be confered, so getting them from the team holding them is more likely going to mean getting a 2015-2017 pick rather than a 2014 pick.

Outside of those teams, Orlando, Phoenix and Utah aren't going to trade 2014 picks under any plausible circumstances, being open tankers (Utah said "we're willing to take a step back next year"; unusual for them).

I would see Cleveland as a dark horse here, but possibly interested in trading their 2014 pick. They just hired an expensive coach, so I'd expect they'll try and be competitive next year. They have over $20 million in cap space too.

Toronto would consider it, though probably for a veteran difference maker or to move Bargs for someone moderately useful. However, if their starters are healthy, they're a legit threat for the 8th seed.

Charlotte might consider trading the Detroit pick, but the Pistons should have over $40 million to spend in free agency and their owner just said "we're going to spend". Huge risk in trading for that pick and it's not going to be top 8 next year under any circumstances, though it has a fair chance at being 11th or so.

Milwaukee has lots of cap space and probably goes for the 8th seed. They could consider trading their pick.

Boston is uncertain from a direction standpoint as core players could retire, but not much will be known as of June 27th.

Am I missing anyone relevant to the 2014 lottery discusion?

The problem is then that you'd have to work out a deal for a 2014 pick with just a very limited number of probable lottery teams to choose from, almost all of which have cap-space and with wild swings possible in their fortunes based on who they sign. Likewise, if it's 2014 or bust, you have to work out the protection to where you actually get the pick in 2014, which is a major issue in and of itself; not many future picks get conferred the year right after they were traded. Lastly, teams that trade their picks are highly likely to pick up wins in April (this happened to OKC with the Raps pick this year).

These are just massive constraints and/or downside risks that make the likelihood of this sort of transaction highly suspect. It's not a bad strategy in a vacuum, but it's not at all probable.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part III 

Post#1195 » by Ruzious » Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:20 am

Bad news for the draft and good news for NCAA basketball - Marcus Smart is staying and so are both Baylor bigs - Austin and Jefferson. Jefferson's very underrated, imo.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part III 

Post#1196 » by Dat2U » Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:58 am

I'm struggling to find a favorite in this draft at #8.

Based on all the talk thus far these guys have a high chance of being selected before we pick.

CE Nerlens Noel
SG Ben McLemore
PF Anthony Bennett
SG Victor Oladipo
SF Otto Porter
PG Trey Burke

I'd take Noel, Porter, Oladipo, Burke (in that order) if they somehow fall to 8.

If McLemore or Bennett falls I'd potentially look to line up a trade to team wanting either.

Outside of who's remaining outside the perceived top 6, I'm looking at this group of players in no particular order:

CE Alex Len
CE Steven Adams
CE Rudy Gobert
CE Gorgui Dieng
F/C Kelly Olynyk
F/C Cody Zeller
PF Dario Saric
SF Giannis Adetokunbo
SF Sergey Karasev
G/F Shabazz Muhammad
SG Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
SG Erick Green
PG C.J. McCollum
PG Dennis Schroeder

I'd say Len, Olynyk & McCollum are the favorites at the moment but that's likely to change in time.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part III 

Post#1197 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:08 pm

Dat2U wrote:I'm struggling to find a favorite in this draft at #8.

Based on all the talk thus far these guys have a high chance of being selected before we pick.

CE Nerlens Noel
SG Ben McLemore
PF Anthony Bennett
SG Victor Oladipo
SF Otto Porter
PG Trey Burke

I'd take Noel, Porter, Oladipo, Burke (in that order) if they somehow fall to 8.

If McLemore or Bennett falls I'd potentially look to line up a trade to team wanting either.

Outside of who's remaining outside the perceived top 6, I'm looking at this group of players in no particular order:

CE Alex Len
CE Steven Adams
CE Rudy Gobert
CE Gorgui Dieng
F/C Kelly Olynyk
F/C Cody Zeller
PF Dario Saric
SF Giannis Adetokunbo
SF Sergey Karasev
G/F Shabazz Muhammad
SG Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
SG Erick Green
PG C.J. McCollum
PG Dennis Schroeder

I'd say Len, Olynyk & McCollum are the favorites at the moment but that's likely to change in time.


Sometimes we agree so much it is uncanny, Dat. This is one of those times.

I have no doubts that McCollum and Olynyk will be immediately useful players. Len would be coming to the best situation possible for him outside of OKC or SA. Wall is one million times better at getting guys the ball than anyone Len has ever played with. However, I foresee Len being off the board at eight.

Two guys are fast-risers in most mocks. Adetokunbo and Shroeder are each intriguing. Gut instinct says Giannis A sounds like a high reward, fairly low risk player. Also, Karasev will probably be an anti-Vesely. He's going to be a player, but because of Jan I'd stay away at eight.

As of today, I would take Kelly O at 8 because he is skilled, can pass well, he scores efficiently, and Olynyk fits the profile of modern day bigs. He is not a low post banger but he can excell in pick and roll or pick and pop. Canadiens are taking over at the highest echelon of play and I think he will be successful in the NBA.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part III 

Post#1198 » by stevemcqueen1 » Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:20 pm

Someone else said this on a different board and it struck me as being true: I can see Wittman not being able to deal with Bennett. He'd end up in his dog house.

I think the only young players that are going to succeed here with this FO in charge are super disciplined high IQ players that can already shoot and already play excellent defense.

So yeah, young players who would succeed anywhere under any circumstances.

I hope we draft Porter or Zeller.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part III 

Post#1199 » by Dark Faze » Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:21 pm

I'd take Kelly O as well, very surprised so many mocks have Zeller over him. Seems like Kelly does almost everything better.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part III 

Post#1200 » by fishercob » Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:42 pm

Dat2U wrote:I'm struggling to find a favorite in this draft at #8.

Based on all the talk thus far these guys have a high chance of being selected before we pick.

CE Nerlens Noel
SG Ben McLemore
PF Anthony Bennett
SG Victor Oladipo
SF Otto Porter
PG Trey Burke

I'd take Noel, Porter, Oladipo, Burke (in that order) if they somehow fall to 8.

If McLemore or Bennett falls I'd potentially look to line up a trade to team wanting either.

Outside of who's remaining outside the perceived top 6, I'm looking at this group of players in no particular order:

CE Alex Len
CE Steven Adams
CE Rudy Gobert
CE Gorgui Dieng
F/C Kelly Olynyk
F/C Cody Zeller
PF Dario Saric
SF Giannis Adetokunbo
SF Sergey Karasev
G/F Shabazz Muhammad
SG Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
SG Erick Green
PG C.J. McCollum
PG Dennis Schroeder

I'd say Len, Olynyk & McCollum are the favorites at the moment but that's likely to change in time.


Dat, I fundamentally don't understand Noel. I want you, CCJ, Sev, and others to tell me why we should pick him #1 when we win the lottery. He's unskilled; it will be at LEAST a couple years before he's an offensive contributor. He's skinny and weak. How is he going to keep anyone from getting deep post position? His game is predicated on athleticism and he's coming of a torn ACL (and someone here said he tore it is HS too -- did we confirm that?). I understand that he blocked a ton of shots last year, but so did Hassan Whiteside; a great college shotblocker doesn't equate into a good pro player. There has to be more to his game and I'm not seeing much.

Doesn't it seem like his draft stock is inflated by the fact that he went to Kentucky? Imagine if he had just had the same frosh season at Maryland, NC State, or UCLA. Would he be nearly as hyped?
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