The Lebron Thread (Pt. 2)

[SideshowBob]

Lebrons ranked seasons IMO

2013
2009
2010
2012
2011
2008
2006
2007
2005
2004

That's mine with 2010 and 2009 flipped.

[XtotheDeezy]

Lebrons ranked seasons IMO

2013
2009
2010
2012
2011
2008
2006
2007
2005
2004

That's mine with 2010 and 2009 flipped.

Then flip them back and that's mine.

[Rasho_libre]

If you're ranking the best versions of Lebron I have it
2013
2010
2009
2012

If you're ranking seasons

2012
2009
2010

2013 I would rank after I see the the postseason play out it could be just one more game. If they lost Indy. I would rank 2013 third behind 2012 and 2009 despite this being the best version of Bron.

[SideshowBob]

Miami Offensive 4 Factors Breakdown

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

Games        eFG%      ORB%      TOV%      FT/FGA         ORTG

1-5          51.9%     26.0%     11.1%    .229            115.3

Not one of them is exceptional, its just a good balance of the 4 leading to insane overall results. 115.3 against a 99.8 DRTG defense is insane.

Code: Select all

Games        eFG%      ORB%      TOV%      FT/FGA         ORTG

1-6          50.5%     24.7%     11.6%    .226            111.5

That's a +11.9 Offense

[ardee]

There's always a generational talent for each generation. You can't say that we haven't seen evidence of a new one because until the guy is in the pros you can't say. You think at the time people thought Jordan was the GOAT? Or that Duncan would be arguably the most ideal franchise player ever?

It could be Wiggins, it could be Davis, it could be some kid in the second round whom we have no clue about yet, the gap will never remain empty.

On a side not, I personally think it's going to be James Harden.

I think this is fascinating -- why do you think this?

I ask because I see no possible way for this to happen -- like 99.9999% cannot happen -- so I see an area for unearthing how we all see basketball differently. I can explain why if you want, but I'm curious as to why you'd zero in on Harden for something like this...(apologies Sideshow if this should be its own thread)

Because I see almost no flaws in his offensive game.

He can make plays with the best of them, he's arguably the best pick and roll player in the league along with Parker and a healthy Nash, he's an amazing three point shooter, he's the best in the league at drawing contact, he's a great finisher, he's only lacking a mid-range jump shot.

If he works on that this summer, how do you guard the guy? He's 26-6-5 on 60% TS in his first year as a first banana... We could see multiple '09/'10 Wade-like statistical seasons from him because he's only 23.

Like you said, it's not a popular opinion, so either it'll happen and I'll be vindicated or it won't and I'll be an idiot Next year is key, 24 is the age SGs tend to break out.

[OnlyOneWay2Play]

...Unbelievable: Wade has begun the finger-pointing and blame game:

"We've got to do a better job of making sure me [Wade] and Chris can have opportunities to succeed."

"We've got to try to figure it out in this locker room," Wade said, "and not leave it to an individual to self-will it."

Wade, on why defense has been less of a struggle than offense on his bum right knee, "I get a little more rhythm defensively; I get to defend every play. Offensively, I don't get the ball every play. So it comes a little different. You know, the rhythm is a little different."

Wade, after shooting 3 of 11 for 10 points, did look elsewhere, suggesting he has been marginalized in the Heat's offense, on a night when defense and rebounding were equally decisive factors

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miam ... 918.column
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miam ... 0474.story

What a b*%^h excuse by Wade. Look you're hurt, fine, people get that, you've already played that excuse card plenty (which is understandable, but not admirable). But now he has the nerve to try to explain away his PATHETIC performance by saying he isn't getting enough "opportunities"?!?

News flash to "Flash": you haven't gotten more opportunities because
- you can't finish at the rim at all now
- you've never worked on your jump shot or post game, so now you have nothing to fall back on
- you've turned it over a lot and made bone-head plays (see terrible pass attempt to Cole today)
- LeBron is playing very well and is much more efficient and able to create for himself and others

Sorry for the rant / Wade tangent, but this is a potentially big development for LeBron's future. Many have speculated that if Wade and Bosh keep disappointing, LeBron SHOULD absolutely look to move on to a new team in 2014. But that is an objective, pure-basketball perspective from people like us with no personal attachments like LBJ has to this current Heat team (esp. DWade and Bosh).

BUT now it ALSO seems that the egos are clashing and the relationships are fraying. So it's looking more and more likely that LBJ is gone next year. So where does he go? Again just from a rational, basketball-only perspective, I would love to see LeBron play with a YOUNG team that is actually constructed with a clear style in mind and with pieces that compliment each other. The two options that to me seem most promising and exciting are:

- Golden State: IF (i) Bogut is reasonably healthy and brought back at a reasonable salary (ii) Lee is traded for cap relief, then 2014 GSW could be:
Curry
Klay
Barnes
LBJ
Bogut
---> now THAT is small-ball that can Dominate

- Houston: regardless of what happens with Dwight here, is another potential small-ball offensive juggernaut with a defensive anchor C:
Lin / Beverly
Harden
Parsons
LBJ
Asik / Dwight

Other potentially good options might be Chicago (if they can move Boozer and/or Deng's contract), Cleveland (if they can land another young stud like Cousins with their assets), LA Lakers are always a threat with massive cap space.

What do you guys think? What teams are good options / fits? And, equally important, would LeBron actually go to a somewhat "random" place (Houston, Golden State, Memphis) if that gave him the best chance to win titles? Perhaps a silver lining if the Heat lose this year is that LeBron will continue to feel compelled to choose a team next year for basketball reasons, not off-court opportunities or sentimentality.

[Dupp]

Bosh took responsibilities for his poor play wade cant. And wade has been horrible defensively whats he talking about? Dudes a delusional cry baby.

[toodles23]

Wade's comments are not a good sign at all. His reduced touches and role in the offense is because he's been playing like crap, I liked the way Bosh talked about his poor play better, basically saying he needs to man up.

I have no idea what's going to happen in game 7. None. It could be a blowout either way and it wouldn't surprise me. The only thing I'd bet on is Lebron being as aggressive going to the hoop as he's been all postseason, you could see him ratchet his effort up a notch in the 4th last night on his drives.

The best news for Miami is that Birdman will be back, I thought Joel sucked.

[NaturalThunder]

There's always a generational talent for each generation. You can't say that we haven't seen evidence of a new one because until the guy is in the pros you can't say. You think at the time people thought Jordan was the GOAT? Or that Duncan would be arguably the most ideal franchise player ever?

It could be Wiggins, it could be Davis, it could be some kid in the second round whom we have no clue about yet, the gap will never remain empty.

On a side not, I personally think it's going to be James Harden.

Why Harden and not Durant? Age wise Durant's only one year older than Harden.

[SideshowBob]

That was the lowest ORTG Miami's posted since December 29th

[thebottomline]

LeBron likely plays 47-48 minutes next game like Game 7 vs Boston last year assuming it won't be a blowout. That's about all I can expect. Anything can happen.

Wade's comments were seriously dumb. The media will turn it into the leading story heading into Game 7 and could become a distraction. Wouldn't be surprised if LeBron is less aggressive after hearing Wade complain about touches and how they can't let an individual (gee, I wonder who you're talking about...) "self-will" the team.

[Allen_Iverson]

SPAM

[colts18]

The game was lost when Spo went back out with the Cole-Miller-Anthony lineup down 7. They got them back in the game and he should have went with the big guns after that since Anthony can't play offense at all.

The refs aren't giving LeBron any foul calls when he drives. The Hibbert play is obvious. There was another play when Mahinmi fouled him going up for the layup. LeBron had 2 drives and layups in the 4th quarter where he got hacked on his way to the basket and didn't get a foul call. His high FTA in this series is just 8 FTA. I'm not sure why the refs allow Paul George to reach in all the time without ever calling that foul. If you pay attention, George always swipes at the ball when his man gets it.

[colts18]

LeBron's efficiency is about the same in this series as it was in the regular season. LeBron's TS% is +10.4 above Indiana's regular season average. LeBron's regular season was +10.5% above league average

[ElGee]

There's always a generational talent for each generation. You can't say that we haven't seen evidence of a new one because until the guy is in the pros you can't say. You think at the time people thought Jordan was the GOAT? Or that Duncan would be arguably the most ideal franchise player ever?

It could be Wiggins, it could be Davis, it could be some kid in the second round whom we have no clue about yet, the gap will never remain empty.

On a side not, I personally think it's going to be James Harden.

I think this is fascinating -- why do you think this?

I ask because I see no possible way for this to happen -- like 99.9999% cannot happen -- so I see an area for unearthing how we all see basketball differently. I can explain why if you want, but I'm curious as to why you'd zero in on Harden for something like this...(apologies Sideshow if this should be its own thread)

Because I see almost no flaws in his offensive game.

You don't see a non-existent post game? Or limitations with his entire game inside the arc because of his size? Or that his passing can be erratic and borderline out of control? Or that his motor isn't super high? I mean, just on creation/passing alone you are limiting his offensive ceiling, especially in a context of "generational" player. He's a drive-and-kick creator, and a good/efficient pick-n-roll player. But his decision-making isn't in the same ballpark as guys like James and Nash, nor is his self-creation (I think looking at his shooting map is pretty informative on this front). I haven't even mentioned his undersized, uninspired and unintelligent defense!

You don't seem sensitive so I imagine you won't take this personally, I just think it's a great educational spot -- ask yourself, did you say this about Harden last year when he averaged 16 ppg? My guess is you are getting drawn in by PPG and TS%....because to me, you are "seeing" something in a guy that cannot possibly happen.

[NaturalThunder]

You don't see a non-existent post game? Or limitations with his entire game inside the arc because of his size? Or that his passing can be erratic and borderline out of control? Or that his motor isn't super high? I mean, just on creation/passing alone you are limiting his offensive ceiling, especially in a context of "generational" player. He's a drive-and-kick creator, and a good/efficient pick-n-roll player. But his decision-making isn't in the same ballpark as guys like James and Nash, nor is his self-creation (I think looking at his shooting map is pretty informative on this front). I haven't even mentioned his undersized, uninspired and unintelligent defense!

You don't seem sensitive so I imagine you won't take this personally, I just think it's a great educational spot -- ask yourself, did you say this about Harden last year when he averaged 16 ppg? My guess is you are getting drawn in by PPG and TS%....because to me, you are "seeing" something in a guy that cannot possibly happen.

I'll never be able to take Harden serious as a superstar until he develops some sort of mid-range/in-between game. A superstar SG shouldn't have a non-existent mid-range jumper like Harden. And like you said, he's a terrible defender. The last superstar that I can think of that was this bad defensively is Nash, and Nash was a better all-around offensive player.

Can't see why anyone would pick Harden over Durant, unless they went with someone who's more than one year younger like Kyrie; or projecting forward with someone like Wiggins, Parker, or Karl Towns Jr.

[Greatness]

Game 7, don't know what to expect from the rest of his teammates but I expect LeBron to bring it. Unless he's exhausted from carrying this team every game (doubtful) or becomes passive because of the comments from Wade (possible).

[PCProductions]

Personally, I think Wade's comments were directed at the coaching staff and not Lebron. He and Bosh were sat for basically scrubs during 4th quarter for quite a while and now I think he has something to prove. Well, hopefully at least.

Lebron I expect to play aggressively. This is likely going to be the biggest game of the year.

[therealbig3]

Yeah, I'm not worried about LeBron showing up. He's proven himself when he has his back against the wall. If Wade and Bosh put up stinkers again, LeBron absolutely needs to have a historic, monster performance similar to G6 against Boston last year, or the shooters need to be ridiculously hot.

Otherwise, at least one of Wade and Bosh have to come up with a big game.

[PCProductions]

How important do you guys think Birdman's absence from Game 6 was? Joel looked fierce but just couldn't complete. Do you think the outcome would have been any different?