Michael Jordan not greatest according to John Salley

[DavoBirmingham]

MJ and Magic, each with the exact same team mates, say...

Kwame at C
Travis Knight at the PF
and 2 combo guards since MJ and Magic play different positions,.. say Sedale Threatt and Brian Shaw

who wins??

Both in their absolute primes? MJ's team wins. Too much of a dominant athletic specimen who didn't require good teammates to succeed on the kind of micro level we're talking about. It wasn't Magic's game to take over individually the way Mike would in that situation.

However, with better teammates (e.g. a frontcourt of Pat Ewing, Charles Oakley and Anthony Mason), Magic wins. Too good of a leader, too good at getting the most out of talented teammates. Oh, and the aforementioned frontcourt would make life very tough for Mike going to the basket.

[Dagameplaya PnG]

I've never been a big fan of MJ. Just wasnt but how with a str8 face can you say that Magic Johnson was better than MJ? Based on what? MJ was a the coldest player to ever touch a ball outside of 81 pt Kobe. Magic was great top 5 great but he was no means better than Mike. Less of a scorer, less rings and definitely a less overall impact on future players.

i ll say with deadly seriousness and sniper like accuracy...all day, man...

magic is the best player of all time, there isnt any question...

Then you're clearly just biased and don't know much about the game. Magic was an amazing passer. Perhaps the greatest court vision of all time but the rest of his game was no where near the level of Michael Jordan.

Average defender, good scorer but again not on MJs level. This skillset is not something anyone with a clue should call the overall greatest ever.

[DEEP3CL]

Salley got a right to say that, his teams busted Jordan's ass for some years. Had MJ in "girly" mode too. Plus MJ garnered most of his fame after the greats who kept his ass in the back seat had left the game. So yeah...he may not be the GOAT. In my book he never was.

[b shaw20]

Salley got a right to say that, his teams busted Jordan's ass for some years. Had MJ in "girly" mode too. Plus MJ garnered most of his fame after the greats who kept his ass in the back seat had left the game. So yeah...he may not be the GOAT. In my book he never was.

Whaaat? Come on now Deep, even Magic and Bird (have to assume these are guys yo refer to, who kept him in the back seat) have acknowledged that MJ took greatness to another level. I have watched every great player since 1980 and hands down, there is no comparison who the GOAT was.

"God in basketball shoes". (LB)

[leeprettyp]

Salley got a right to say that, his teams busted Jordan's ass for some years. Had MJ in "girly" mode too. Plus MJ garnered most of his fame after the greats who kept his ass in the back seat had left the game. So yeah...he may not be the GOAT. In my book he never was.

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And i like to add... If James Worthy didn't get hurt in that 1991 NBA finals, are we even having this debate. This GOAT debate isnt etched in stone like the media and fanboys of one player like to make it. Also like to add I'm a die hard Lakers fan since the 80's also. And I just hate how Isiah Thomas gets sooooo disrespected when it comes to the all time greats. The guy could do it all back in the day and was the best player on the back to back Pistons teams (that roster wasnt super talented) . Also beat teams that feature prime Bird and prime MJ on them. Its too bad the achilles injury took him away from the game so early. Much like Kobe now the media loves to destroy Zay. I guess maybe its one of those things if you didn't get to visually see him yourself, dont dig enough into the research and just go by with the media says. You'd prolly think Zay was only one of the 50 greatest ever but in reality he's much lower on the list. If Zay played in todays NBA he'd easily be the best PG in the league. A 2 way player who took pride in playing defense and also a tough dude

In the 1990 NBA finals Zay avged 27.6 points, 7.0 assists, and 5.2 rebounds against Portland
In the NBA Finals record in 1988, when he scored 25 points in the third quarter of Game 6 on 1 leg with Michael Cooper defending him.

[iamworthy]

Salley got a right to say that, his teams busted Jordan's ass for some years. Had MJ in "girly" mode too. Plus MJ garnered most of his fame after the greats who kept his ass in the back seat had left the game. So yeah...he may not be the GOAT. In my book he never was.

Whaaat? Come on now Deep, even Magic and Bird (have to assume these are guys yo refer to, who kept him in the back seat) have acknowledged that MJ took greatness to another level. I have watched every great player since 1980 and hands down, there is no comparison who the GOAT was.

"God in basketball shoes". (LB)

Magic also said that Kobe is the greatest laker...just saying

[havoc33]

Magic is by no means the greatest ever (though he's in my top 5), and this is coming from a Laker fan. I think certain members here have forgot that Larry, not Magic, was often considered the best of the two. Magic's reputation received a considerable boost in his last few years and after his retirement. The GOAT shouldn't ever have nicknames like the one Magic got in the mid 80s:

Tragic Johnson.

[leeprettyp]

I'll take a 6'9 PG who revolutionized that position in Magic ANYDAY. Guy lead us to 9 NBA finals in his career. Its a disgrace to this thread and to all fans everywhere to still bring up that stupid nickname "Tragic Johnson." Magic was actually the opposite of that. A WINNER, great guy and even better teammate. Also a humble guy when we lost. There's can agrument that Magic is the best player to ever play the game. Me personally still believes its Kareem. Cap dominated basketball at EVERY level he ever played in.

[True_Laker_Fan]

I agree with Salley that Michael Jordan is not the greatest. As much as I hate the Celtics, they had some players like Bill Russell who was considerably better then Michael Jordan and quite frankly I don't think Jordan would do nearly as good in his prime in todays NBA

[pwright1599]

John Salley is an idiot. Big Lakers fan but Jordan is the standard that know one has touched.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using RealGM Forums mobile app

[twix2500]

I remember reading an article back in the 90's about Wilt Chamberlain greatness will be ignored because of the bad relationships he had with the media, very barry bonds like. And that article turns out to be so true.

[karkinos]

But never in my life have I seen a player who always found a way to impact and decide games the way MJ did. He put up numbers despite being double and tripled team all the time. And defensively, he always seemed to hold opponents to numbers below their average. And when the lights were on, in the finals the guy never lost.

shaq in the 3peat era was probably most dominant player we have ever seen since jordan. his numbers are outrageous, and i would argue he was more dominant than his predecessors. while jordan had the skill and talent, shaq is impossible to replicate due to sheer size alone. the game's rules changed because of shaq. you can zone now because he was that good.

[Kilroy]

I've never been an MJ fan, but I'm willing to accept I may not be the most objective...
As a laker fan, when we'd play a nationally televised game, we'd get some ex Celtics or Knicks broadcasters and all we'd hear about was how great Bird was... And Bird was great... I think he may have been the toughest competitor I ever saw, and he had a beautiful shot... But he was no where near as well rounded or athletic as Magic...
Then when Bird was on his way out, we started hearing about MJ... Even though Magic was winning MVPs and stuff, the hype almost skipped him because he wasn't in the East... And kind of like LeBron, before MJ had done anything real significant, he was already "Air Jordan" and the best in the league... Then he started winning championships and it was all over...
Until he'd gone on that 3-Peat tear, I'd just thought of him as a Glorified DrJ...
The high flying dunks that everyone was falling over seemed tired and done. But he kept winning...

The thing that I think nobody really likes to talk about was that MJ was the darling of the league... The Face of the NBA and for several seasons, he could literally do no wrong... Even to the point of retiring to play half-assed baseball... Everyone still loved him... And he got calls no one has seen since... There were games where he was literally untouchable... It seemed like defenses couldn't breath on him without an +1.
Kobe saw a little of that to before Colorado... But coupled with the fact that a lot of the power players in the NBA were in Rebuild mode, the league litterally started to look like professional wrestling there for a while...

So MJ has the stats to be greatest ever... He won the games and depending on who you ask and when you ask them, he did it all by himself... But I've never seen him do anything that fired me up the same way many of Magics performances did. In fact I think MJ was asked at one point after he retired who he thought the greatest ever was, and I think he said Magic... Obviously MJ, like Bird, always thought he could beat anyone he played against, but I still thought it was high praise. In fact, I'm pretty sure Bird said the same thing...

[Mamba Venom]

Spider is on crack....

the moment he claimed Magic, Bird, Kareem and Zeke were all were better than MJ he lost me.

Magic is my basketball God and I despised seeing Jordan take the torch from Magic and Bird. I grew a Magic fan and I followed basketball since 1979, but I will keep this real --- MJ was in another league than these guys.

And they would be the first to tell you that.

Spider, how did forcing MJ left and keeping him from the basket work out for you when you were swept?

Just sayin'..

If Magic never got HIV he and Jordan would have had a Magic vs. Bird rivalry and would have met in the Finals a few more times. Worthy was still great, Magic at his size would have had at least 3 more seasons on par w/ MJ's 96-98 years. Divac was getting better. Elden Campbell would get A LOT better. And the Lakers would add a piece.

I really believe that Magic would have won at least 1 more chip if he didnt get HIV.

[Archaeon]

Magic Johnson calls Michael Jordan the "best ever" in 1993

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6og_pOVi2w[/youtube]

Magic Johnson Says Michael Jordan Is the Greatest to Ever Play

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wcr3PR3AQw[/youtube]

Offensively,both Jordan and Johnson are almost the same but Jordan is better defensively,so I go with Jordan.

Magic never make it to NBA All-Defensive Team.

[Dagameplaya PnG]

exactly you can't be the greatest of all time if your overall game isn't great.

[Mamba Venom]

Including Thomas as better than MJ is absolutely ridiculous.

Magic and Bird both have stated MJ is better than they were. 6 beats 3 and 5 no matter how many different ways you look at it.

Kareem has an arguement for basketball w 3 NCAA titles, getting the dunk ruled illegal, 6 chips, less Finals MVPs but longevity the fact he played agaisnt everyone on the GOAT list.