Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV

[Ruzious]

At this point I'm only interested in moves that further the TANK. I'm all in on Randle, Wiggins, Gordon, Parker, Exum, et all...

I wouldn't trade the '14 pick unprotected for anything (that includes Monroe or Faried). If we do trade the pick, it should be done with full lottery protection because I'm almost certain this is a lottery team and potentially a high one).

Absolutely no selling of young assets for a short term gain. No Boozer's, No Gasol's, No future picks to squeeze out 3 additional wins this season.

And really, we're 1 significant injury to ANY of Wall, Beal, or even Nene to not have to tank to be in the running for a high lotto pick.

We might as well be in St. Louis, because we're built on a house of cards. <copywrite>

[Nivek]

One of the more tired "arguments" is the whole "I watch games, not stats" bullspit. Most of us stat goobers watch A TON of games. I've been trying to watch less the past couple years. I'm down to probably a couple hundred games a season.

[Nivek]

And, for those who worship at the altar of The Eye Test, you should check out the research on eye witness testimony and/or memory.

[Ruzious]

One of the more tired "arguments" is the whole "I watch games, not stats" bullspit. Most of us stat goobers watch A TON of games. I've been trying to watch less the past couple years. I'm down to probably a couple hundred games a season.

A healthy blend of scouting and stats seems to work most of the time - in basketball and baseball.

[Ruzious]

And, for those who worship at the altar of The Eye Test, you should check out the research on eye witness testimony and/or memory.

The Aye test works well in sailing moreso than basketball.

[Dat2U]

So stats are useful for some things, but nothing replaces the eye test and getting to know these players by watching them live and on film. Then it take a chief to put it all together. Then you need some injury luck.

So who is exactly replacing the eye test? I think we all look at Wizards games here. Many of us have NBA league pass and see games all the time... I don't think the eye test is ever getting replaced. Utilizing stats doesn't mean your not using your eyes, were taking that statistical information and filling in the full picture that the eyes aren't necessarily catching. Eyes lie. Stats lie. Eyes + stats don't lie.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

My rule on the eyes vs the stats is of course, use both, like Dat suggested. However, I trust my instruments so to speak more than I trust my eyes.

In flying, not that I'm a pilot, but I do know that many conditions are mild enough that visual flight rules apply. However, in the tough going, instrumentation is a lot more trustworthy. Your proper instruments are not going to lie if their calibrated right. That's why when it comes to making analyses on players that require some depth, I rely heavier on the stats. Never mistake activity for achievement. Some players appear to be balling but they hurt a team.

For a guy like Jan Vesely, I look at not so much his stats, but team stats with him on the court. I also rely on the eye test. Vesely's movement when he's rebounding and flying all over the place show that he is helping a team even at times when his stat line looks really void.

Eye test probably told Ernie Grunfeld that Jan was worth the #6 pick. However, the assessment was spurious. Also, even stats need to be taken in context. I'm learning more about Euroleague stats. I have a bias toward stats far more than bowleggedness et al, but thank goodness non-stat guys like WizarDynasty are around to correctly predict Steven Adams has some game.

[payitforward]

But... in the case of Nene -- he's not that different from Pau in this same sense! He's only a year younger, and he's in his 12th year in the league.

Nene was born 9/13/82. Pau was born 7/6/80.

You're right -- my bad.

[payitforward]

Good players produce what they produce and tend to follow the normal development and fade curves but fit does also matters which goes to the total roster and how the coach combines them. And there are always exceptions so there is an x factor.

Its is a team. Its about production, team chemistry and efficiency.

Not just good players, all kinds of players "produce what they produce and tend to follow the normal development and fade curves" -- tho of course you are right that there are exceptions. Very very few however. The rest of what's above is just blah blah. If players produce what they produce -- independent of the system and their teammates, and that is what the data shows -- then if you assemble players who produce more your team produces more. If your team produces more it wins more; it is impossible for that not to be true.

Calling it addition is way over simplifying things.

Simplifying, yes -- and that is what you want to do! Over-simplifying, no. At what point is acquiring the best players you can anything but the very best thing to do?

...lots of unknown variables.

No. I can only think of one -- injury.

So stats are useful for some things, but nothing replaces the eye test...

There is no such thing as "the eye test." Period.

...you add a PP, KG, Dirk or Pau even when they are on the downside.

BS, pure and simple. No quicker way into the toilet than that.

...Nene, AH and Okafor all healthy, that's ...a decent support system for Wall, Beal and other younger players who have skills to develop.

This irks me -- Beal is lighting it up. Wall is playing horribly. Whatever do those other guys have to do with either fact?

So if you could trade Nene and Trevor A in a package for Pau or Dirk, I would do it. Both are upgrades when it goes to be winners. Then you resign Okafor and AH.

...and down the toilet you go. Weren't you the guy who was sure how much better we'd be w/ Shawn Livingston?

[Nivek]

I like this idea of acquiring guys like Pau or Dirk or Paul Pierce, even if they're on the down-slope of their careers. I think we should expand this plan, though. Why stop at active players? Get the legends: Magic, Bird, Jordan, Malone...Bill Russell. They're not what they once were, but they know how to win.

[Induveca]

I'd trade a lotto protected pick/porter/seraphin for Faried and Chandler. Zero questions, just an immediate "yes".

Then you look at moving Nene and Ariza at the deadline. I wouldn't mind Pau Gasol at all....nor Monroe.

Wall
Beal
Chandler
Faried
Gasol

Armchair GMing, but the deals seem plausible. If Wall and Beal play to their potential with that lineup we could do some damage in the playoffs.

[verbal8]

I'd trade a lotto protected pick/porter/seraphin for Faried and Chandler. Zero questions, just an immediate "yes".

I think it should be the pick or Porter, not both. Especially if Chandler is included.

Then you look at moving Nene and Ariza at the deadline. I wouldn't mind Pau Gasol at all....nor Monroe.

I think Ariza is better than Chandler. Webster is probably a little better also.

I think the Lakers would get better return than Nene if they deal Gasol. If Okafor comes back decently, he and the lotto-protected 1st maybe tempting for someone who doesn't fit long term.

Wall
Beal
Chandler
Faried
Gasol

Armchair GMing, but the deals seem plausible. If Wall and Beal play to their potential with that lineup we could do some damage in the playoffs.

It would be a good team, but stuck in the bottom of the play-off teams.

[deneem4]

So what happen with the nets last yr?

If u watch basketball u should its as mental as it is talent wise...monte ellis can put up kobe #s but he wont impact your team like kobe...
Jrue holiday can put up chris paul numbers but u would be an idiot to tradr paul for him

Basketball is full of egos, to sit and say, better players mske better teams is the dumbest **** I heard...in miami case u took the most versatile player...added him to another top 5 player than added a top 5 bigman...and they didnt work until wade accepted the lesser role...than u added nothing but vets and shooters, but tht was the 1st time in nba history that happen...and please dont mentiom the celtics...considering ray Allen is the reason miami won theyre championship
Nene isnt no where near the factor pau is...no matter what the #s say...also pau is healthier than nene, nene is on an extreme decline vs his play before the wizards.

U my friend are an idiot....

Beal didnt show his greatness until wall came into the picture...thats fact...

Go watch soccer that's extremely simple for a simple minded guy like u

[Induveca]

I'd trade a lotto protected pick/porter/seraphin for Faried and Chandler. Zero questions, just an immediate "yes".

I think it should be the pick or Porter, not both. Especially if Chandler is included.

Then you look at moving Nene and Ariza at the deadline. I wouldn't mind Pau Gasol at all....nor Monroe.

I think Ariza is better than Chandler. Webster is probably a little better also.

I think the Lakers would get better return than Nene if they deal Gasol. If Okafor comes back decently, he and the lotto-protected 1st maybe tempting for someone who doesn't fit long term.

Wall
Beal
Chandler
Faried
Gasol

Armchair GMing, but the deals seem plausible. If Wall and Beal play to their potential with that lineup we could do some damage in the playoffs.

It would be a good team, but stuck in the bottom of the play-off teams.

I hear you, but you don't win a championship without a true star emerging. Could be Wall, could be Beal. It's time to make moves to win. Vesley Seraphin and injured Nene won't cut it.....

[verbal8]

I hear you, but you don't win a championship without a true star emerging. Could be Wall, could be Beal. It's time to make moves to win. Vesley Seraphin and injured Nene won't cut it.....

If those deals only cost a lotto protected pick and move Nene, it would be a huge improvement over the current situation. Having Nene and having to extend Gasol or let him walk, would make the situation not as appealing.

[tontoz]

Beal didnt show his greatness until wall came into the picture...thats fact...

Beal's biggest moment of the season was the game winner against OKC on Jan 7 (he had 22/5/4 that game going 5-7 from 3). A couple of games before that he had 24/6/4 against the Nets including a 4 point play at the end of the 3rd quarter, game tying foul shots at the end of the game and a game tying jumper.

Wall didn't play until Jan 12.

[deneem4]

Ariza/ nene
for
pau

Porter/2014 1st unprotected/2014 2nd/2015 1st unprotected/
For
D cousins


Wall
Beal
Webster
Cousins
Pau

Win a championship

[deneem4]

Beal didnt show his greatness until wall came into the picture...thats fact...

Beal's biggest moment of the season was the game winner against OKC on Jan 7 (he had 22/5/4 that game going 5-7 from 3). A couple of games before that he had 24/6/4 against the Nets including a 4 point play at the end of the 3rd quarter, game tying foul shots at the end of the game and a game tying jumper.

Wall didn't play until Jan 12.

How many games we plsyed b4 jan 12?? And u giv me 2 good gsmes???
Now what were his games like after wall came bsck?

Also jordan crawford went 9/13 tht game vs the nets so I guess he showed his greatness too
The thunder game vesley was a rebound shy of double double webster put up 24 shooting over 50% and better than beal even seraphin put up 19pts

The simple point u tryin yo argue wall didnt make bradley beal better is dumb...u should be banned for your thoguht process right now

[tontoz]

Beal didnt show his greatness until wall came into the picture...thats fact...

Beal's biggest moment of the season was the game winner against OKC on Jan 7 (he had 22/5/4 that game going 5-7 from 3). A couple of games before that he had 24/6/4 against the Nets including a 4 point play at the end of the 3rd quarter, game tying foul shots at the end of the game and a game tying jumper.

Wall didn't play until Jan 12.

How many games we plsyed b4 jan 12?? And u giv me 2 good gsmes???
Now what were his games like after wall came bsck?

Also jordan crawford went 9/13 tht game vs the nets so I guess he showed his greatness too
The thunder game vesley was a rebound shy of double double webster put up 24 shooting over 50% and better than beal even seraphin put up 19pts

The simple point u tryin yo argue wall didnt make bradley beal better is dumb...u should be banned for your thoguht process right now

So those games were't great then? What is your definition of great?

FYI even after Wall returned Beal's stats when Wall was on the bench weren't much different than when Wall was playing. However i am sure you won't let the facts get in the way of your opinions.

http://broomonthewarpath.sportsblog.com ... ement.html

As a side note i think you need to buy a vowel.

[Induveca]

I hear you, but you don't win a championship without a true star emerging. Could be Wall, could be Beal. It's time to make moves to win. Vesley Seraphin and injured Nene won't cut it.....

If those deals only cost a lotto protected pick and move Nene, it would be a huge improvement over the current situation. Having Nene and having to extend Gasol or let him walk, would make the situation not as appealing.

Good points....agreed.