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Official Speculation Thread Pt.LXII

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Re: Official Speculation Thread Pt.LXII 

Post#401 » by Smooth_E » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:07 pm

I strongly dislike Arron Afflalo's game.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread Pt.LXII 

Post#402 » by londoncollin » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:14 pm

I love Afflalo's game. When he's not a first option. I mean, it's like the Heat running their offense through Haslem. Or telling Chalmers to light it up. It doesn't work when he's your best player, but it does when he's your third or fourth best.


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Re: Official Speculation Thread Pt.LXII 

Post#403 » by Neon1 » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:17 pm

Just Plain Mark wrote:
Neon1 wrote:I was going to let the Moe talk slide this game since it was game 1..but here yall come...


I agree that his defense wasn't impressive but he was playing against a $90 million man who seems poised for an even better year. I'd take George against any 2nd year 20 year old in the NBA. So, Harkless should get criticism for his defense, but IMO last night's game shouldn't be counted as dispositive of his overall defensive ability now or potential to improve.

I disagree with your critique on his offense. He did well cutting to the basket, running in transition and attacking the rim (though he didn't finish great a couple of times, but then again, the Pacers are one of the best shot blocking and defensive teams in the NBA). Also, the hot mess of offense the Magic ran last night did not provide anybody with a good foundation for offensive success. Most of the offense was running through Vuc or Afflalo. I mean, by the standard you're criticizing Moe for lack of offensive involvement, you could also criticize Nicholson for "disappearing" in the 4th quarter with his lack of offensive output but is that fair or even accurate? Or is it the disaster of an offense that's to blame? I say its the latter.



This isn't about last night, its an ongoing thing. Nicholson is a bench player who has never really even been a regular part of the rotation, let alone the starter. Harkless usually gets a ton of minutes, and he has gotten into a rut of not doing anything with the vast majority of those minutes. Long stretches without rebounding, long stretches of defensive lapses etc. I don't criticize Harkless for not getting involved in "offense", I criticize him for not getting involved in the games as a whole. He goes most of his games just coasting through them without doing anything then he usually has a little flurry somewhere. It's not all about his point total and he's got to remember that, got to do the other things too (smart defense/rebounding/etc).
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Re: Official Speculation Thread Pt.LXII 

Post#404 » by T-Rob » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:26 pm

Neon1 wrote:
RYgoBOOM wrote:Go figure Harkless plays another solid game and I see people on here arguing about how he isn't skilled.

IMO....14 pts in 24 minutes on almost 50% shooting while knocking down 2 of his only 2 three point attempts.....?



Keep on trucking Moe.....maybe one day Neon1 will look past the fact that you are just 20 and still on the come up. Keep proving people wrong!



You probably didn't even see the game. Harkless was 3-8fg for 6pts 1reb 0ast 0stl 0blk and either fouled or had Paul George score on 9 of 13 attacks against him up until Vaughn inserted that garbage time lineup of Ronnie Price/E'Twaun Moore/Moe Harkless/Solomon Jones/Kyle O'Quinn with 5:22 remaining.

Where he was able to take 4 out of the final 10 attempts with that lineup in the final minutes of a blowout.
4Q 4:28 Paul George bad pass (Maurice Harkless steals)
4Q 4:16 Missed 18-foot jumper
4Q 3:15 Layup following turnover
4Q 2:38 Makes Three
4Q 0:11 Makes open three during the last seconds

Nothing was done this game to "prove wrong" he did what always seems to happen with him, nowhere to be found for 75-80% of his court time, with a quick flurry/burst of points. He had no positive impact on this game whatsoever, and STILL is getting less and less involved in the other areas like rebounding, passing etc.


You're ridiculous. Just stop already. Omg annoying as hell.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread Pt.LXII 

Post#405 » by Neon1 » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:32 pm

T-Rob wrote:
Neon1 wrote:
RYgoBOOM wrote:Go figure Harkless plays another solid game and I see people on here arguing about how he isn't skilled.

IMO....14 pts in 24 minutes on almost 50% shooting while knocking down 2 of his only 2 three point attempts.....?



Keep on trucking Moe.....maybe one day Neon1 will look past the fact that you are just 20 and still on the come up. Keep proving people wrong!



You probably didn't even see the game. Harkless was 3-8fg for 6pts 1reb 0ast 0stl 0blk and either fouled or had Paul George score on 9 of 13 attacks against him up until Vaughn inserted that garbage time lineup of Ronnie Price/E'Twaun Moore/Moe Harkless/Solomon Jones/Kyle O'Quinn with 5:22 remaining.

Where he was able to take 4 out of the final 10 attempts with that lineup in the final minutes of a blowout.
4Q 4:28 Paul George bad pass (Maurice Harkless steals)
4Q 4:16 Missed 18-foot jumper
4Q 3:15 Layup following turnover
4Q 2:38 Makes Three
4Q 0:11 Makes open three during the last seconds

Nothing was done this game to "prove wrong" he did what always seems to happen with him, nowhere to be found for 75-80% of his court time, with a quick flurry/burst of points. He had no positive impact on this game whatsoever, and STILL is getting less and less involved in the other areas like rebounding, passing etc.


You're ridiculous. Just stop already. Omg annoying as hell.



HE pulled my name into his comments, I hadn't said a word about Moe. If your annoyed there's an ignore feature on here isn't there? Use it. "Like...OMG..."
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Re: Official Speculation Thread Pt.LXII 

Post#406 » by Just Plain Mark » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:39 pm

Neon1 wrote:
Just Plain Mark wrote:
Neon1 wrote:I was going to let the Moe talk slide this game since it was game 1..but here yall come...


I agree that his defense wasn't impressive but he was playing against a $90 million man who seems poised for an even better year. I'd take George against any 2nd year 20 year old in the NBA. So, Harkless should get criticism for his defense, but IMO last night's game shouldn't be counted as dispositive of his overall defensive ability now or potential to improve.

I disagree with your critique on his offense. He did well cutting to the basket, running in transition and attacking the rim (though he didn't finish great a couple of times, but then again, the Pacers are one of the best shot blocking and defensive teams in the NBA). Also, the hot mess of offense the Magic ran last night did not provide anybody with a good foundation for offensive success. Most of the offense was running through Vuc or Afflalo. I mean, by the standard you're criticizing Moe for lack of offensive involvement, you could also criticize Nicholson for "disappearing" in the 4th quarter with his lack of offensive output but is that fair or even accurate? Or is it the disaster of an offense that's to blame? I say its the latter.



This isn't about last night, its an ongoing thing. Nicholson is a bench player who has never really even been a regular part of the rotation, let alone the starter. Harkless usually gets a ton of minutes, and he has gotten into a rut of not doing anything with the vast majority of those minutes. Long stretches without rebounding, long stretches of defensive lapses etc. I don't criticize Harkless for not getting involved in "offense", I criticize him for not getting involved in the games as a whole. He goes most of his games just coasting through them without doing anything then he usually has a little flurry somewhere. It's not all about his point total and he's got to remember that, got to do the other things too (smart defense/rebounding/etc).


I don't think the situations with Nicholson and Harkless are comparable at all - the Magic clearly run offense to get Nicholson involved (post ups and pick and pops), but I don't ever recall offense being run through Harkless. The reason Vaughn runs plays for Nicholson is because he's a better offensive player and Harkless does need to improve significantly on his offensive playmaking, but if Harkless is correctly positioned on a play designed for someone else and makes a cut to the basket, is open but nobody passes him the ball, what is he supposed to do? Vaughn is not going to allow Harkless to post up or call on him to run PnR's.

So while Harkless should improve his offensive skill to get more invovled, right now, I think he's doing almost exactly what he should do - get out in transition, cut to the basket, provide proper spacing for corner and wing threes. He does need to signficantly improve his defensive and offensive rebounding, but he's rarely in a position to get an assist so I don't think that's an issue. Also, being involved on offense is part of being involved "overall" so you can't just discount his transition play, cuts, and other activity and say he isn't involved because he isn't involved overall.

On defense, from what I saw, he just got beat. He could've been quicker laterally, he could've been stronger on drives, but he wasn't lackadaisical or out of position. He needs to improve and he's subject to real criticism, but I don't get the "not involved" criticism (outside of rebounding).
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Re: Official Speculation Thread Pt.LXII 

Post#407 » by BadMofoPimp » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:44 pm

T-Rob wrote:
Neon1 wrote:

You probably didn't even see the game. Harkless was 3-8fg for 6pts 1reb 0ast 0stl 0blk and either fouled or had Paul George score on 9 of 13 attacks against him up until Vaughn inserted that garbage time lineup of Ronnie Price/E'Twaun Moore/Moe Harkless/Solomon Jones/Kyle O'Quinn with 5:22 remaining.

Where he was able to take 4 out of the final 10 attempts with that lineup in the final minutes of a blowout.
4Q 4:28 Paul George bad pass (Maurice Harkless steals)
4Q 4:16 Missed 18-foot jumper
4Q 3:15 Layup following turnover
4Q 2:38 Makes Three
4Q 0:11 Makes open three during the last seconds

Nothing was done this game to "prove wrong" he did what always seems to happen with him, nowhere to be found for 75-80% of his court time, with a quick flurry/burst of points. He had no positive impact on this game whatsoever, and STILL is getting less and less involved in the other areas like rebounding, passing etc.


You're ridiculous. Just stop already. Omg annoying as hell.


Actually, he is stating exactly what happened. Moe had a bad game. He will get it together though. First games are tough on young guys.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread Pt.LXII 

Post#408 » by Optimus_Steel » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:10 pm

Ok who is making the game thread for today? Season started we got to get with the program!
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Re: Official Speculation Thread Pt.LXII 

Post#409 » by Neon1 » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:10 pm

Just Plain Mark wrote:
Neon1 wrote:
Just Plain Mark wrote:
I agree that his defense wasn't impressive but he was playing against a $90 million man who seems poised for an even better year. I'd take George against any 2nd year 20 year old in the NBA. So, Harkless should get criticism for his defense, but IMO last night's game shouldn't be counted as dispositive of his overall defensive ability now or potential to improve.

I disagree with your critique on his offense. He did well cutting to the basket, running in transition and attacking the rim (though he didn't finish great a couple of times, but then again, the Pacers are one of the best shot blocking and defensive teams in the NBA). Also, the hot mess of offense the Magic ran last night did not provide anybody with a good foundation for offensive success. Most of the offense was running through Vuc or Afflalo. I mean, by the standard you're criticizing Moe for lack of offensive involvement, you could also criticize Nicholson for "disappearing" in the 4th quarter with his lack of offensive output but is that fair or even accurate? Or is it the disaster of an offense that's to blame? I say its the latter.



This isn't about last night, its an ongoing thing. Nicholson is a bench player who has never really even been a regular part of the rotation, let alone the starter. Harkless usually gets a ton of minutes, and he has gotten into a rut of not doing anything with the vast majority of those minutes. Long stretches without rebounding, long stretches of defensive lapses etc. I don't criticize Harkless for not getting involved in "offense", I criticize him for not getting involved in the games as a whole. He goes most of his games just coasting through them without doing anything then he usually has a little flurry somewhere. It's not all about his point total and he's got to remember that, got to do the other things too (smart defense/rebounding/etc).


I don't think the situations with Nicholson and Harkless are comparable at all - the Magic clearly run offense to get Nicholson involved (post ups and pick and pops), but I don't ever recall offense being run through Harkless. The reason Vaughn runs plays for Nicholson is because he's a better offensive player and Harkless does need to improve significantly on his offensive playmaking, but if Harkless is correctly positioned on a play designed for someone else and makes a cut to the basket, is open but nobody passes him the ball, what is he supposed to do? Vaughn is not going to allow Harkless to post up or call on him to run PnR's.

So while Harkless should improve his offensive skill to get more invovled, right now, I think he's doing almost exactly what he should do - get out in transition, cut to the basket, provide proper spacing for corner and wing threes. He does need to signficantly improve his defensive and offensive rebounding, but he's rarely in a position to get an assist so I don't think that's an issue. Also, being involved on offense is part of being involved "overall" so you can't just discount his transition play, cuts, and other activity and say he isn't involved because he isn't involved overall.

On defense, from what I saw, he just got beat. He could've been quicker laterally, he could've been stronger on drives, but he wasn't lackadaisical or out of position. He needs to improve and he's subject to real criticism, but I don't get the "not involved" criticism (outside of rebounding).


Read what I wrote though. Long stretches without doing anything isn't talking about scoring or not scoring points. His offense he gets involved as much as you can realistically ask for because that is where his offensive skill level currently is. He does quite well getting shots where he should on most nights.

Not being involved in the game for long stretches is meaning going 6-10 minutes at a time without putting a tick mark in any column whether its scoring a point, getting a rebound, an assist, a steal a block or just playing really good solid defense.

He gets everything in little bursts each game usually one little 4minute stretch or so, which is fine if your not in there for 34-38 minutes a game.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread Pt.LXII 

Post#410 » by thelead » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:40 pm

Neon and I are just being tough on Moe. If you want to treat him with kiddie gloves, go right on ahead.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread Pt.LXII 

Post#411 » by Just Plain Mark » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:48 pm

Neon1 wrote:
Just Plain Mark wrote:
Neon1 wrote:

This isn't about last night, its an ongoing thing. Nicholson is a bench player who has never really even been a regular part of the rotation, let alone the starter. Harkless usually gets a ton of minutes, and he has gotten into a rut of not doing anything with the vast majority of those minutes. Long stretches without rebounding, long stretches of defensive lapses etc. I don't criticize Harkless for not getting involved in "offense", I criticize him for not getting involved in the games as a whole. He goes most of his games just coasting through them without doing anything then he usually has a little flurry somewhere. It's not all about his point total and he's got to remember that, got to do the other things too (smart defense/rebounding/etc).


I don't think the situations with Nicholson and Harkless are comparable at all - the Magic clearly run offense to get Nicholson involved (post ups and pick and pops), but I don't ever recall offense being run through Harkless. The reason Vaughn runs plays for Nicholson is because he's a better offensive player and Harkless does need to improve significantly on his offensive playmaking, but if Harkless is correctly positioned on a play designed for someone else and makes a cut to the basket, is open but nobody passes him the ball, what is he supposed to do? Vaughn is not going to allow Harkless to post up or call on him to run PnR's.

So while Harkless should improve his offensive skill to get more invovled, right now, I think he's doing almost exactly what he should do - get out in transition, cut to the basket, provide proper spacing for corner and wing threes. He does need to signficantly improve his defensive and offensive rebounding, but he's rarely in a position to get an assist so I don't think that's an issue. Also, being involved on offense is part of being involved "overall" so you can't just discount his transition play, cuts, and other activity and say he isn't involved because he isn't involved overall.

On defense, from what I saw, he just got beat. He could've been quicker laterally, he could've been stronger on drives, but he wasn't lackadaisical or out of position. He needs to improve and he's subject to real criticism, but I don't get the "not involved" criticism (outside of rebounding).


Read what I wrote though. Long stretches without doing anything isn't talking about scoring or not scoring points. His offense he gets involved as much as you can realistically ask for because that is where his offensive skill level currently is. He does quite well getting shots where he should on most nights.

Not being involved in the game for long stretches is meaning going 6-10 minutes at a time without putting a tick mark in any column whether its scoring a point, getting a rebound, an assist, a steal a block or just playing really good solid defense.

He gets everything in little bursts each game usually one little 4minute stretch or so, which is fine if your not in there for 34-38 minutes a game.


Last night, Harkless played 24 minutes. In the first quarter, he played 10 minutes - didn't have any rebounds or steals but he hit two buckets and drew a foul. In the second quarter, he played 4 minutes and had an offensive rebound and a made bucket. He was also clearly fouled by Roy Hibbert on a drive but there was no call. In the third quarter, played just over 2 minutes and didn't have a stat. In the fourth quarter, he played a bit over 7 minutes and had a steal and 3 made buckets.

Should Harkless be more productive? Absolutely. Does that indiciate a deficiency abnormal to a 20 year old non lottery pick playing against the third best SF in the league? Not hardly. By comparison, Afflalo played roughly 8.5 minutes in the first quarter and didn't record a single stat (other than missed shots). In the second quarter, Afflalo played 12 minutes and had 2 points, one assist and 2 rebounds but went 6 minutes without contributing anything. In, the third, Afflalo played 6 minutes and had 7 points. In the fourth, he played 6.5 minutes and had 1 defensive rebound to go along with 3 missed shots and 1 TO.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread Pt.LXII 

Post#412 » by Just Plain Mark » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:50 pm

thelead wrote:Neon and I are just being tough on Moe. If you want to treat him with kiddie gloves, go right on ahead.


Not sure if you're being sarcastic, but I agree that Neon is being tough on Moe. Its a false dichotomy to think that "tough" and "kid gloves" are the only approaches to Moe. I hardly think I'm treating him with kid gloves though since I offered several real criticisms (lack of rebounding and not very good defense). My goal is to be neither "hard" nor "soft" on any player, but merely objective.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread Pt.LXII 

Post#413 » by RYgoBOOM » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:53 pm

Not saying this would help moe specifically but our offense IMO is horrible. The sets they seem to run are so simplistic and really don't open up much of anything. With a LITTLE bit of knowledge from defenders they can easily defend our sets.

That could be why more often than not it looks like Moe isn't doing much on offense, when it reality our offense isn't doing much besides 1 pass then shoot or run fail play till end of shot clock and then jack up a bad shots.


I also agree on the rebounding bit. I don't want to jump guns though and assume every game will be 1-2 rebound games
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Re: Official Speculation Thread Pt.LXII 

Post#414 » by MagicTownBaller » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:55 pm

@arsenal6106, sorry I'm late with the update, I've been very busy with some stuff. Anyways, copy this into the OP whenever you can.

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Re: Official Speculation Thread Pt.LXII 

Post#415 » by MagicTownBaller » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:56 pm

Anyways, who else is excited that the PS4 is coming out in a little more then 2 weeks? I'm going to be at my GameStop at the midnight release and going to play so much next gen 2K, it's unreal.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread Pt.LXII 

Post#416 » by rcklsscognition » Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:24 pm

MagicTownBaller wrote:Anyways, who else is excited that the PS4 is coming out in a little more then 2 weeks? I'm going to be at my GameStop at the midnight release and going to play so much next gen 2K, it's unreal.


I am! Target is doing Buy2Get1 on PS4 games the week leading up to launch (through Friday/Saturday). So 3 games for 40 bucks each. NBA2k14, AC4, and KZ. Can't wait to play with the Magic. I'm going to try and organize a realgm online association since there are quite a few of us here that are going to have 2k on the ps4.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread Pt.LXII 

Post#417 » by MagicTownBaller » Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:28 pm

rcklsscognition wrote:
MagicTownBaller wrote:Anyways, who else is excited that the PS4 is coming out in a little more then 2 weeks? I'm going to be at my GameStop at the midnight release and going to play so much next gen 2K, it's unreal.


I am! Target is doing Buy2Get1 on PS4 games the week leading up to launch (through Friday/Saturday). So 3 games for 40 bucks each. NBA2k14, AC4, and KZ. Can't wait to play with the Magic. I'm going to try and organize a realgm online association since there are quite a few of us here that are going to have 2k on the ps4.


I heard about the Buy 2 Get 1 Free at Target, you can also get it matched at Wal-Mart. I would be getting Killzone: Shadow Fall, Knack, and NBA 2K14 if I had the extra $60 to spend. But, I don't lol.

Anyways, that OA thing might not work out. There is rumors going around that there would not be an OA in the next gen version of 2K14.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread Pt.LXII 

Post#418 » by rcklsscognition » Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:32 pm

Well, we'll get some thing organized, I'm sure there will be a mode we can all join up in.

Back to Magic. I just got to watch the game this morning and I've got to say, I don't see anything wrong with Dipo's handle that will keep him from becoming a PG. It was a little suspect from what I saw in the draft process, but I think he's ironed most of the kinks out. I don't think it will limit him. He seems to be making an effort to improve his court awareness and vision, it could work out at PG for him.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread Pt.LXII 

Post#419 » by MagicTownBaller » Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:34 pm

rcklsscognition wrote:Well, we'll get some thing organized, I'm sure there will be a mode we can all join up in.

Back to Magic. I just got to watch the game this morning and I've got to say, I don't see anything wrong with Dipo's handle that will keep him from becoming a PG. It was a little suspect from what I saw in the draft process, but I think he's ironed most of the kinks out. I don't think it will limit him. He seems to be making an effort to improve his court awareness and vision, it could work out at PG for him.


My DVR crapped out on me so I couldn't see the game last night :(

I'm so glad I'll be able to watch it tonight.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread Pt.LXII 

Post#420 » by rcklsscognition » Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:35 pm

MagicTownBaller wrote:
rcklsscognition wrote:Well, we'll get some thing organized, I'm sure there will be a mode we can all join up in.

Back to Magic. I just got to watch the game this morning and I've got to say, I don't see anything wrong with Dipo's handle that will keep him from becoming a PG. It was a little suspect from what I saw in the draft process, but I think he's ironed most of the kinks out. I don't think it will limit him. He seems to be making an effort to improve his court awareness and vision, it could work out at PG for him.


My DVR crapped out on me so I couldn't see the game last night :(

I'm so glad I'll be able to watch it tonight.


If all else fails, look up a guy named kcplayoffs

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