Knicks-Related Trade "THOUGHTS" Thread - Part Deux

[Johnny Hoops]

not sure I care what Smith's shot stats say ---- he basically moved to the 3 in Detroit --- given the other 2 bigs on Detroits front line I would expect Smith to shoot more outside shots.

He was more of a 4 in ATL.

Not sure I get hung up on his shooting % -- Melo is Mr Inefficient and Melo does't pass, rebound, defend or block shots like J=Smith. What are Melo's and J-Smiths career playoff records? Not sure but in my opinion Melo has had more talent around him than Smith --- thru out his career.

Everyone with a brain could see the Smith fit in Detroit wouldn't be good because you've got 3 BIGS who are all questionable shooters.

Josh Smith at $14M better for me than Melo at $25M

Ur basically saying smith is a better all around player in a whole then Carmelo

No - I'm saying other than scoring Smith is the better all-around player than Melo.

My primary point on Smith is that his contract would only have 3 more years at $13.5M per -- with Melo you are talking $25M at 5 years. In that comparison I will take Josh Smith for 3 years and $13.5M every time.

In my view of basketball - there are other things that are important other than scoring the ball. In fact both players shoot 46% from 2P% for their career -- much of Melo's perceived scoring advantage is based on the volume of shots he puts up.

Not here to knock Melo --- just saying J-Smith is someone I would consider taking a run at given the sorry state of this team and I don't believe they have the patience to sit and wait another year (of Melos prime) to get to the summer of 2015.

[Johnny Hoops]

the funny thing is deng would cost the same amount and is 10x the player smoove is

Who exactly are we getting Deng with?

Smith I'm proposing dumping Stat/Chump.

Ok so why are we giving up amare soon to be expiring contract and Shumpert who is on a rookie contract for the worst contract in the league ? The only deal that makes sense if smith was to come to ny is

Ny- Smith, Villanueva
det- Felton, Jr, Bargnani

For Detroit they get out of Josh's Contract which has 3 yrs after this , take on smaller contracts like bargs who expires next year, and Felton, jr the yr after (also both players have player options which they are more likely to use in Detroit ) ... NY on the other hand takes on smiths long term deal but it doesn't effect there 2015 plan because smith makes 14 mil which will be replaced by Felton / jr salary which would be 11 mil that yr. So basically we take a 3 mil hit in 2015 on the cap .... Still have enough to another star

I'd probaby prefe that deal as well - but not sure Pistons would.

[SuperflyKnick]

Who exactly are we getting Deng with?

Smith I'm proposing dumping Stat/Chump.

Ok so why are we giving up amare soon to be expiring contract and Shumpert who is on a rookie contract for the worst contract in the league ? The only deal that makes sense if smith was to come to ny is

Ny- Smith, Villanueva
det- Felton, Jr, Bargnani

For Detroit they get out of Josh's Contract which has 3 yrs after this , take on smaller contracts like bargs who expires next year, and Felton, jr the yr after (also both players have player options which they are more likely to use in Detroit ) ... NY on the other hand takes on smiths long term deal but it doesn't effect there 2015 plan because smith makes 14 mil which will be replaced by Felton / jr salary which would be 11 mil that yr. So basically we take a 3 mil hit in 2015 on the cap .... Still have enough to another star

I'd probaby prefe that deal as well - but not sure Pistons would.

Then tough luck for them... there is no1 knocking the door down in the detroit for Josh smith and his contract... Do you realize he has prob the most toxic contract in the league lolz , not gonna pick and choose what they want for him
And its not a bad deal for Detriot.. Bargnani gives them a stretch 5 who can play with Monroe and Drummond, while Jr wud boose there guard position or play SF, felton cud give them a solid backup PG all whose contracts are smaller and expire before Joshs

[moocow007]

So this is my first proposal, hope I don't get flamed too much

I don't like multi-team trades, nonetheless I'll give it a try.

New York Knicks
In: Luol Deng
Out: Iman Shumpert, Andrea Bargnani

Cleveland Cavaliers
In: Iman Shumpert, Ben Gordon (expiring)
Out: Luol Deng

Detroit Pistons
In: Andrea Bargnani
Out: Josh Smith

Charlotte Bobcats
In: Josh Smith
Out: Ben Gordon

Why for the Knicks: The Knicks finally get their perfect SF for playing Smallball. They also get rid of Bargani, which opens playtime for Tyler.

Why for the Cavs: They know Deng won't resign, so they'll try to get some assets. Shumpert can either play the 3, or the 2, which makes Dion Waters expendable for another trade.

Why for Detroit: They finally get rid of Josh Smith. More touches for Monroe and Drummond. With Bargnani they are getting a viable Backup Center, whose contract expires 2 years before Josh Smith.

Why for the Cats: They get their upgrade at the 4. Josh Smith tightens their defense, and also gives them another offensive Option compared to McRoberts.

Who says no? The Knicks obviously say yes, and I think the Cavs do so, too. Detroit might want more for Smith, but I don't think his toxic contract has any value in the league. They might prefer to look for a SF to replace him tho. Smith in Charlotte could work, since he would become the 3rd Option on Offense, which means he wouldn't chuck this much. And as mentioned before, he would be a huge upgrade on the defensive end over McRoberts.

I know the chance of resigning Deng is not that big. Nonetheless I'd give it a try, because he its too good of a fit next to Melo. Many of you (me included) don't want to take any salary for 2015. But I think a player of Dengs quality is definitely worth it, especially if there's a chance of signing him for less than he wanted with the Bulls.

I can see this as something that would be considered by the Pistons and Bobcats. Pistons if the goal is admitting that signing Josh Smith to that long term deal was a mistake and you want to swap him for a shorter contract (Bargnani). Bobcats cause Michael Jordan has never turned down getting the most talent in a deal.

For the Knicks this would be a clear absolutely, though you never know with Dolan.

The problem is with the Cavaliers. Unless the logic is that Deng realizes what a mess he has in Cleveland and wants out, I really don't see what this does for the Cavs. The type of players that the Cavs are looking for is the type of player that Deng is. That's why they traded for him. I can't see them moving him now if all they get back is essentially Shumpert. Shumpert in some sort of deal for Dion Waiters I can see. And that MAY make some sense for the Knicks (arguable) since Waiters clearly is talented but is also a potential trouble maker. But I don't see the Cavs doing this. They can't. Their last GM gave up a lot to get Deng. To make this trade essentially would be a big kick in the nuts to Cavs fans who are already on pins and needles.

[SuperflyKnick]

So this is my first proposal, hope I don't get flamed too much

I don't like multi-team trades, nonetheless I'll give it a try.

New York Knicks
In: Luol Deng
Out: Iman Shumpert, Andrea Bargnani

Cleveland Cavaliers
In: Iman Shumpert, Ben Gordon (expiring)
Out: Luol Deng

Detroit Pistons
In: Andrea Bargnani
Out: Josh Smith

Charlotte Bobcats
In: Josh Smith
Out: Ben Gordon

Why for the Knicks: The Knicks finally get their perfect SF for playing Smallball. They also get rid of Bargani, which opens playtime for Tyler.

Why for the Cavs: They know Deng won't resign, so they'll try to get some assets. Shumpert can either play the 3, or the 2, which makes Dion Waters expendable for another trade.

Why for Detroit: They finally get rid of Josh Smith. More touches for Monroe and Drummond. With Bargnani they are getting a viable Backup Center, whose contract expires 2 years before Josh Smith.

Why for the Cats: They get their upgrade at the 4. Josh Smith tightens their defense, and also gives them another offensive Option compared to McRoberts.

Who says no? The Knicks obviously say yes, and I think the Cavs do so, too. Detroit might want more for Smith, but I don't think his toxic contract has any value in the league. They might prefer to look for a SF to replace him tho. Smith in Charlotte could work, since he would become the 3rd Option on Offense, which means he wouldn't chuck this much. And as mentioned before, he would be a huge upgrade on the defensive end over McRoberts.

I know the chance of resigning Deng is not that big. Nonetheless I'd give it a try, because he its too good of a fit next to Melo. Many of you (me included) don't want to take any salary for 2015. But I think a player of Dengs quality is definitely worth it, especially if there's a chance of signing him for less than he wanted with the Bulls.

If the knicks were to aquire Deng they prob have to give cleveland Hardaway Jr which i feel is fine as long as we are getting a player of Dengs caliber... I could def see Deng resigning here, but dam he wud be such perfect fit next to Melo... If i were the knicks i wud swap felton/Jack as well...

[magnumt]

So this is my first proposal, hope I don't get flamed too much

I don't like multi-team trades, nonetheless I'll give it a try.

New York Knicks
In: Luol Deng
Out: Iman Shumpert, Andrea Bargnani

Cleveland Cavaliers
In: Iman Shumpert, Ben Gordon (expiring)
Out: Luol Deng

Detroit Pistons
In: Andrea Bargnani
Out: Josh Smith

Charlotte Bobcats
In: Josh Smith
Out: Ben Gordon

Why for the Knicks: The Knicks finally get their perfect SF for playing Smallball. They also get rid of Bargani, which opens playtime for Tyler.

Why for the Cavs: They know Deng won't resign, so they'll try to get some assets. Shumpert can either play the 3, or the 2, which makes Dion Waters expendable for another trade.

Why for Detroit: They finally get rid of Josh Smith. More touches for Monroe and Drummond. With Bargnani they are getting a viable Backup Center, whose contract expires 2 years before Josh Smith.

Why for the Cats: They get their upgrade at the 4. Josh Smith tightens their defense, and also gives them another offensive Option compared to McRoberts.

Who says no? The Knicks obviously say yes, and I think the Cavs do so, too. Detroit might want more for Smith, but I don't think his toxic contract has any value in the league. They might prefer to look for a SF to replace him tho. Smith in Charlotte could work, since he would become the 3rd Option on Offense, which means he wouldn't chuck this much. And as mentioned before, he would be a huge upgrade on the defensive end over McRoberts.

I know the chance of resigning Deng is not that big. Nonetheless I'd give it a try, because he its too good of a fit next to Melo. Many of you (me included) don't want to take any salary for 2015. But I think a player of Dengs quality is definitely worth it, especially if there's a chance of signing him for less than he wanted with the Bulls.

I'd love a trade like this. Good job on your 1st attempt, and 1st post.

--Mags

[Johnny Hoops]

So this is my first proposal, hope I don't get flamed too much

I don't like multi-team trades, nonetheless I'll give it a try.

New York Knicks
In: Luol Deng
Out: Iman Shumpert, Andrea Bargnani

Cleveland Cavaliers
In: Iman Shumpert, Ben Gordon (expiring)
Out: Luol Deng

Detroit Pistons
In: Andrea Bargnani
Out: Josh Smith

Charlotte Bobcats
In: Josh Smith
Out: Ben Gordon

Why for the Knicks: The Knicks finally get their perfect SF for playing Smallball. They also get rid of Bargani, which opens playtime for Tyler.

Why for the Cavs: They know Deng won't resign, so they'll try to get some assets. Shumpert can either play the 3, or the 2, which makes Dion Waters expendable for another trade.

Why for Detroit: They finally get rid of Josh Smith. More touches for Monroe and Drummond. With Bargnani they are getting a viable Backup Center, whose contract expires 2 years before Josh Smith.

Why for the Cats: They get their upgrade at the 4. Josh Smith tightens their defense, and also gives them another offensive Option compared to McRoberts.

Who says no? The Knicks obviously say yes, and I think the Cavs do so, too. Detroit might want more for Smith, but I don't think his toxic contract has any value in the league. They might prefer to look for a SF to replace him tho. Smith in Charlotte could work, since he would become the 3rd Option on Offense, which means he wouldn't chuck this much. And as mentioned before, he would be a huge upgrade on the defensive end over McRoberts.

I know the chance of resigning Deng is not that big. Nonetheless I'd give it a try, because he its too good of a fit next to Melo. Many of you (me included) don't want to take any salary for 2015. But I think a player of Dengs quality is definitely worth it, especially if there's a chance of signing him for less than he wanted with the Bulls.

That is a really good effort -- I would think maybe Detroit would send some type of additional compensation to the Cavs.

[Meat]

we might have to give up thj or a 1st for deng but i dont think it would be the worst thing ever if we got some sort of assurance that he's sign for the next 4 years

[Lord Commander]

So this is my first proposal, hope I don't get flamed too much

I don't like multi-team trades, nonetheless I'll give it a try.

New York Knicks
In: Luol Deng
Out: Iman Shumpert, Andrea Bargnani

Cleveland Cavaliers
In: Iman Shumpert, Ben Gordon (expiring)
Out: Luol Deng

Detroit Pistons
In: Andrea Bargnani
Out: Josh Smith

Charlotte Bobcats
In: Josh Smith
Out: Ben Gordon

Why for the Knicks: The Knicks finally get their perfect SF for playing Smallball. They also get rid of Bargani, which opens playtime for Tyler.

Why for the Cavs: They know Deng won't resign, so they'll try to get some assets. Shumpert can either play the 3, or the 2, which makes Dion Waters expendable for another trade.

Why for Detroit: They finally get rid of Josh Smith. More touches for Monroe and Drummond. With Bargnani they are getting a viable Backup Center, whose contract expires 2 years before Josh Smith.

Why for the Cats: They get their upgrade at the 4. Josh Smith tightens their defense, and also gives them another offensive Option compared to McRoberts.

Who says no? The Knicks obviously say yes, and I think the Cavs do so, too. Detroit might want more for Smith, but I don't think his toxic contract has any value in the league. They might prefer to look for a SF to replace him tho. Smith in Charlotte could work, since he would become the 3rd Option on Offense, which means he wouldn't chuck this much. And as mentioned before, he would be a huge upgrade on the defensive end over McRoberts.

I know the chance of resigning Deng is not that big. Nonetheless I'd give it a try, because he its too good of a fit next to Melo. Many of you (me included) don't want to take any salary for 2015. But I think a player of Dengs quality is definitely worth it, especially if there's a chance of signing him for less than he wanted with the Bulls.

Good stuff. You avoid the obligatory GTFO's and STFU's.

Dang next to Melo would be a nightmare...for the opposition.

[Celo]

What was supposed to be a season exciting enough to make LeBron James think seriously about leaving Miami to come back to the Cavs has descended into such farce that sources close to the situation are already saying that there’s little-to-no chance Deng will agree to stay once he hits free agency.

Quote taken from Marc Stein's column on Anthony Bennett.

Obviously you're right moocow, Shumpert might not be the type of player the Cavs are looking for. I pretended that the Cavs are aware of Deng not resigning and are therefore looking for a trade. To me, Shumpert is a much better fit next to Kyrie than Dion is. Shumpert is also the better defender, while Waiters is the better player on the offensive end. With Shumpert in, the Cavs are no longer hesitant to pull the trigger on a Waiters trade.

Again, you are right by saying a Shumpert - Deng swap might not be enough. So let's make Charlotte throw in the '14 Blazers First Rounder. Then you have Waiters + a late First Rounder in a said to be great draft class to trade for a Veteran. To me, this is a better package than what they had to give up for Deng.

Back then the Cavs gave up an more or less expiring contract in Bynum, 2 Second Rounders and a Top 10 protected First Round pick which becomes a Second Rounder in 2017. Deng wasn't resigning in Chicago, so the price was accordingly low. Nonetheless, to repeat myself, I think Waiters + '14 First Rounder from the Blazers gets the Cavs a decent enough player to consider this trade.

Obviously only if Deng says he is not going to resign.

[riter]

we might have to give up thj or a 1st for deng but i dont think it would be the worst thing ever if we got some sort of assurance that he's sign for the next 4 years

Deng wants 4yrs/15mil large.
this is an overpay that narrows Cavs trading partners--if indeed they know that Deng would not resign with them.

Bargs/Shump/Timmy or 2018 1st

for Deng/Waiters may be something the Cavs would do.

[navyblue]

^^no way does cle do that, eat up cap space, give up the better prospect.

Waiters will not be moved, he was told that by the new gm. read that somewhere. I dont think cle will be sellers, they will look to add and keep deng. hope to turn things around with the new gm. Worst case scenario they can sign and trade deng or get cap space when when he leaves. They have won 4 in a row, 3 games out of a playoff spot.

EDIT
Griffin told players to have fun, quit feeling stressed. And told Irving and Waiters that #Cavs have no plans to trade either, sources say.

— Sam Amico (@SamAmicoFSO)
https://twitter.com/SamAmicoFSO/statuse ... 3042410497

[Meat]

^^no way does cle do that, eat up cap space, give up the better prospect.

Waiters will not be moved, he was told that by the new gm. read that somewhere. I dont think cle will be sellers, they will look to add and keep deng. hope to turn things around with the new gm. Worst case scenario they can sign and trade deng or get cap space when when he leaves. They have won 4 in a row, 3 games out of a playoff spot.

EDIT
Griffin told players to have fun, quit feeling stressed. And told Irving and Waiters that #Cavs have no plans to trade either, sources say.

— Sam Amico (@SamAmicoFSO)
https://twitter.com/SamAmicoFSO/statuse ... 3042410497

what's cap space going to do for Cleveland, no one wants to play for them. their organization is a dysfunctional mess

[riter]

^^no way does cle do that, eat up cap space, give up the better prospect.

Waiters will not be moved, he was told that by the new gm. read that somewhere. I dont think cle will be sellers, they will look to add and keep deng. hope to turn things around with the new gm. Worst case scenario they can sign and trade deng or get cap space when when he leaves. They have won 4 in a row, 3 games out of a playoff spot.

EDIT
Griffin told players to have fun, quit feeling stressed. And told Irving and Waiters that #Cavs have no plans to trade either, sources say.

— Sam Amico (@SamAmicoFSO)
https://twitter.com/SamAmicoFSO/statuse ... 3042410497

that's all wishful thinking on your part--just like my trade. 4 wins in a row doesn't change the Cleveland reality.

As far as cleveland singing and trading Deng--you guys are and will be very limited. He'll be unrestricted, so he has all the leverage. that narrows your trade partners.Plus--he wants 4yrs/$15 which narrows your trade partners even more--so it's not a foregone conclusion that your post seems to insinuate.

[navyblue]

^^no way does cle do that, eat up cap space, give up the better prospect.

Waiters will not be moved, he was told that by the new gm. read that somewhere. I dont think cle will be sellers, they will look to add and keep deng. hope to turn things around with the new gm. Worst case scenario they can sign and trade deng or get cap space when when he leaves. They have won 4 in a row, 3 games out of a playoff spot.

EDIT
Griffin told players to have fun, quit feeling stressed. And told Irving and Waiters that #Cavs have no plans to trade either, sources say.

— Sam Amico (@SamAmicoFSO)
https://twitter.com/SamAmicoFSO/statuse ... 3042410497

what's cap space going to do for Cleveland, no one wants to play for them. their organization is a dysfunctional mess

what if things turn around, what if they fire their coach, what if they over pay someone(deng or someone else), what if they use the cap space for a trade. The cap space gives them much better option than bargs does when they already have pf and a strech pf in bennet.

[navyblue]

^^no way does cle do that, eat up cap space, give up the better prospect.

Waiters will not be moved, he was told that by the new gm. read that somewhere. I dont think cle will be sellers, they will look to add and keep deng. hope to turn things around with the new gm. Worst case scenario they can sign and trade deng or get cap space when when he leaves. They have won 4 in a row, 3 games out of a playoff spot.

EDIT
Griffin told players to have fun, quit feeling stressed. And told Irving and Waiters that #Cavs have no plans to trade either, sources say.

— Sam Amico (@SamAmicoFSO)
https://twitter.com/SamAmicoFSO/statuse ... 3042410497

that's all wishful thinking on your part--just like my trade. 4 wins in a row doesn't change the Cleveland reality.

As far as cleveland singing and trading Deng--you guys are and will be very limited. He'll be unrestricted, so he has all the leverage. that narrows your trade partners.Plus--he wants 4yrs/$15 which narrows your trade partners even more--so it's not a foregone conclusion that your post seems to insinuate.

because i said your trade was stupid and had said waiters wasnt going to be traded with proof, makes me a cavs fan? hell i havent ever visited thier board. i am on the knicks board and as a nba fan said your trade made no sense for cavs. turn the tables, would you trade an expiring melo for example zach randolph, quincy pointedenxter and a late first? hell no so why expect another team to even consider such a lob sided deal.

[Fat]

Spurs also interested in udrih

[riter]

because i said your trade was stupid and had said waiters wasnt going to be traded with proof, makes me a cavs fan? hell i havent ever visited thier board. i am on the knicks board and as a nba fan said your trade made no sense for cavs. turn the tables, would you trade an expiring melo for example zach randolph, quincy pointedenxter and a late first? hell no so why expect another team to even consider such a lob sided deal.

1)I can understand that my mistaking you for a Cavs fan would piss you off.
2)Cavs officials stating to the world that they won't get rid of Waiters and he's now a wanted piece of the squad(even though they were actively trying to get rid of him earlier) right b4 the trade deadline is proof of nothing.
3)that melo trade is not turning the table. Cavs gave up assets for Deng-- but not much---on a gamble.
--the Cavs wanting to get something back(especially if they're in danger of having him walk for nothing) is very likely--even if it's not fair value.

Denver would of never done the Melo trade, for instance, if not for the circumstances. Cavs will not get fair value for Deng---unless the place he happens to want to be traded to has those assets and is willing to pay him 4yrs/$15mil--which is unlikely.

[Johnny Hoops]

Spurs also interested in udrih

Both teams offering a 3rd Rounder

[SuperflyKnick]

Here is a really Crazzzzy Idea Guys, i saw someone proposing something simliar but i added twists and turn

NY- B. Gordan, Ramon Session, E. Okafur, A. Biedrins, B. Rush
CHA- Amare, Tim Hardaway Jr, Raymond Felton, 1st rd Pk Via Phoneix
PHO- Tyson Chandler, I. Shumpert
UTH- A. Bargnani, 1st PK Via Phoneix, 1st Rd Pk via NY 2018


NY- They lose all assets and talent but get 50 million off the cap this offseason
CHA- Take on Amares last yr for Young Stud in Timmy and 1st rd Pk
PHO- Gear up for the playoffs with Tyson/Shump for expiring and 2 1st rd Pks this yr
UTH- Take on Bargnani last year for a 1st rd pk and NY 2018 pk