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The Kevin Love Thread: Update PG. 67, 78

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Re: Love wants wants LA or NY (update pg 5, Chicago or GS to 

Post#1241 » by mysticbb » Sat May 31, 2014 6:09 pm

Rerisen wrote:But I'm not picking random low impact players to be better than they have, most won't be, but there is specific reasons that a player might do better, mostly based on plus abilities that can be leveraged better, while having a team able to cover for weaknesses.


I understand your train of thought here and I agree that this is a possibility, just that such a development most times is seen for middling mpg players. I can see Afflalo being a bigger impact per possession player when used more specifically in advantageous matchups for him. But something like that is hardly possible with 30+ mpg, rather in the 20 to 25 mpg range. And for that he has a too rich contract.

I guess, we both agree that the Bulls need at least a 3rd quality wing player, and I don't have a problem with Afflalo in such a role, but I have when that means the Bulls have to give up Gibson. To understand my position on that 3rd big better, I probably need to point out that from my perspective the "ideal" playoff rotation consists of 8 players, the starters and then a quality player as backup for the lead guard position, the wing and a big. Under the assumption, the Bulls could get Love (or Anthony), I see the Bulls with the starters (Rose-Butler-Dunleavy-Love-Noah or Rose-Butler-Anthony-Gibson-Noah) and then one quality backup (either big in Gibson or wing with Dunleavy). Giving up either of those quality backups should not be an option; the Bulls should rather try to get the quality for the other positions via FA.

Rerisen wrote:We can say no team has yet (despite a change in the player and role) and appeal to authority of NBA people, but those same people gave AA nearly 3x as much as MDJ, so how wise are they then.


True, but keep the circumstances in mind as well (age, potential role on the Nuggets). I also think, that those people thought he can improve as on overall offensive player (including some playmaking). I questioned that contract at the time already and questioned the Magic decision to take Afflalo instead of Iguodala even more. But well ... the point wouldn't be that the NBA FO can't evaluate talent wrongly, but rather that the coaches are pretty good at choosing the right role for different players.

Rerisen wrote:My interest is not to change someone's mind though, nor until they can mine, but rather to fully understand their position and reason behind it. Which I think I do yours about this topic. Hammering endlessly beyond that over the same points stops being productive.


Fully agree. If I look at the discussion, we essentially only disagree on the "potential" Afflalo has on the Bulls, I guess.
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Re: Love wants wants LA or NY (update pg 5, Chicago or GS to 

Post#1242 » by CaliBullsFan » Sat May 31, 2014 7:20 pm

Why is everyone so convinced he's going to sign with whatever team just because they rescued him from Minnesota a year early?
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Re: Love wants wants LA or NY (update pg 5, Chicago or GS to 

Post#1243 » by bullslas » Sun Jun 1, 2014 12:38 am

CaliBullsFan wrote:Why is everyone so convinced he's going to sign with whatever team just because they rescued him from Minnesota a year early?

He has given his list. I agree he's not resigning with Cleveland unless James comes back.
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Re: Love wants wants LA or NY (update pg 5, Chicago or GS to 

Post#1245 » by TheStig » Sun Jun 1, 2014 6:30 am

KingCuban wrote:http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/233641/Kevin-Love-Visits-Boston-Declines-To-Discuss-Potential-Connection-To-Celtics

The Celtics will be in all trade talks this summer. They have the #6 and all these future picks in addition to their own.

2014 first round draft pick from Brooklyn
Brooklyn's 2014 1st round pick to Boston [Boston-Brooklyn, 7/12/2013]

2015 first round draft pick from Philadelphia
Philadelphia's 2015 1st round pick to Boston (via Miami) protected for selections 1-14; if Philadelphia has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Boston by 2015, then Philadelphia will instead convey its 2015 2nd round pick and 2016 2nd round pick to Boston [Miami-Philadelphia, 6/28/2012 and then Boston-Golden State-Miami, 1/15/2014]

2015 first round draft pick from L.A. Clippers
L.A. Clippers' 2015 1st round pick to Boston [Boston-L.A. Clippers, 6/25/2013]

2015 second round draft pick from Sacramento
Sacramento's 2015 2nd round pick to Boston protected for selections 31-55 (if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then Sacramento's obligation to Boston will be extinguished) [Boston-Sacramento, 2/17/2009]

2016 first round draft pick from Brooklyn
Brooklyn's 2016 1st round pick to Boston [Boston-Brooklyn, 7/12/2013]

2016 second round draft pick from Miami
Miami's 2016 2nd round pick to Boston [Boston-Golden State-Miami, 1/15/2014]

2017 first round draft pick from Brooklyn
Boston has the right to swap its 2017 1st round pick for Brooklyn's 2017 1st round pick; if Boston exercises this swap right, then Boston will convey its 2017 2nd round pick to Brooklyn protected for selections 31-45 (if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then Boston's obligation to Brooklyn will be extinguished) [Boston-Brooklyn, 7/12/2013]

2017 second round draft pick from Sacramento
Sacramento's 2017 2nd round pick to Boston protected for selections 31-55 (if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then Sacramento's obligation to Boston will be extinguished) [Boston-Sacramento, 2/24/2011]

2018 first round draft pick from Brooklyn
Brooklyn's 2018 1st round pick to Boston [Boston-Brooklyn, 7/12/2013]
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Re: Love wants wants LA or NY (update pg 5, Chicago or GS to 

Post#1246 » by mysticbb » Sun Jun 1, 2014 11:12 am

Spoiler:
TheStig wrote:
KingCuban wrote:http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/233641/Kevin-Love-Visits-Boston-Declines-To-Discuss-Potential-Connection-To-Celtics

The Celtics will be in all trade talks this summer. They have the #6 and all these future picks in addition to their own.

2014 first round draft pick from Brooklyn
Brooklyn's 2014 1st round pick to Boston [Boston-Brooklyn, 7/12/2013]

2015 first round draft pick from Philadelphia
Philadelphia's 2015 1st round pick to Boston (via Miami) protected for selections 1-14; if Philadelphia has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Boston by 2015, then Philadelphia will instead convey its 2015 2nd round pick and 2016 2nd round pick to Boston [Miami-Philadelphia, 6/28/2012 and then Boston-Golden State-Miami, 1/15/2014]

2015 first round draft pick from L.A. Clippers
L.A. Clippers' 2015 1st round pick to Boston [Boston-L.A. Clippers, 6/25/2013]

2015 second round draft pick from Sacramento
Sacramento's 2015 2nd round pick to Boston protected for selections 31-55 (if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then Sacramento's obligation to Boston will be extinguished) [Boston-Sacramento, 2/17/2009]

2016 first round draft pick from Brooklyn
Brooklyn's 2016 1st round pick to Boston [Boston-Brooklyn, 7/12/2013]

2016 second round draft pick from Miami
Miami's 2016 2nd round pick to Boston [Boston-Golden State-Miami, 1/15/2014]

2017 first round draft pick from Brooklyn
Boston has the right to swap its 2017 1st round pick for Brooklyn's 2017 1st round pick; if Boston exercises this swap right, then Boston will convey its 2017 2nd round pick to Brooklyn protected for selections 31-45 (if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then Boston's obligation to Brooklyn will be extinguished) [Boston-Brooklyn, 7/12/2013]

2017 second round draft pick from Sacramento
Sacramento's 2017 2nd round pick to Boston protected for selections 31-55 (if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then Sacramento's obligation to Boston will be extinguished) [Boston-Sacramento, 2/24/2011]

2018 first round draft pick from Brooklyn
Brooklyn's 2018 1st round pick to Boston [Boston-Brooklyn, 7/12/2013]


Couple of notes:

- 2015 1st of the 76ers is lottery protected. Unlikely that they will make the playoffs, then it becomes two 2nd round picks. That pick is less valuable than the 2015 Kings first owned by the Bulls
- 2017 1st is a right to swap; if exercised the Celtics would trade their own 2017 1st and 2nd to the Nets for the 2017 Nets 1st. Bulls have a similar swap option for the Cavs pick.
- 2015 Clippers 1st will likely be a very late 1st round pick
- 2015 and 2017 Kings pick, heavily protected 2nd round picks and rather unlikely to equate to anything, 2016 Miami 2nd will be what? Then the Celtics have to give up two of their 2nds. That is rather a negative here.
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Re: Love wants wants LA or NY (update pg 5, Chicago or GS to 

Post#1247 » by CaliBullsFan » Sun Jun 1, 2014 9:39 pm

bullslas wrote:
CaliBullsFan wrote:Why is everyone so convinced he's going to sign with whatever team just because they rescued him from Minnesota a year early?

He has given his list. I agree he's not resigning with Cleveland unless James comes back.


If he's leaving Minnesota because he's trying to win, why would he extend with a team that weakens themselves before he gets there? You would think he learned from Carmelo how stupid that is.
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Re: Love wants wants LA or NY (update pg 5, Chicago or GS to 

Post#1248 » by Woody Allen » Sun Jun 1, 2014 10:17 pm

CaliBullsFan wrote:
bullslas wrote:
CaliBullsFan wrote:Why is everyone so convinced he's going to sign with whatever team just because they rescued him from Minnesota a year early?

He has given his list. I agree he's not resigning with Cleveland unless James comes back.


If he's leaving Minnesota because he's trying to win, why would he extend with a team that weakens themselves before he gets there? You would think he learned from Carmelo how stupid that is.


I followed his statements kind of closely during that period and Carmelo clearly never had any interest in having a strong team around him. He only wanted to sign a max extension (and not the maximum amount he would sign as an unrestricted FA, which was considerably smaller), which is why he pushed for his trade to NY (or else he would sign an extension with Denver).
So, no, I do not think what happened there was an outcome of Carmelo's stupidity, he was just after the money.
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Re: Love wants wants LA or NY (update pg 5, Chicago or GS to 

Post#1249 » by TheStig » Sun Jun 1, 2014 10:39 pm

mysticbb wrote:
Spoiler:
TheStig wrote:
KingCuban wrote:http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/233641/Kevin-Love-Visits-Boston-Declines-To-Discuss-Potential-Connection-To-Celtics

The Celtics will be in all trade talks this summer. They have the #6 and all these future picks in addition to their own.

2014 first round draft pick from Brooklyn
Brooklyn's 2014 1st round pick to Boston [Boston-Brooklyn, 7/12/2013]

2015 first round draft pick from Philadelphia
Philadelphia's 2015 1st round pick to Boston (via Miami) protected for selections 1-14; if Philadelphia has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Boston by 2015, then Philadelphia will instead convey its 2015 2nd round pick and 2016 2nd round pick to Boston [Miami-Philadelphia, 6/28/2012 and then Boston-Golden State-Miami, 1/15/2014]

2015 first round draft pick from L.A. Clippers
L.A. Clippers' 2015 1st round pick to Boston [Boston-L.A. Clippers, 6/25/2013]

2015 second round draft pick from Sacramento
Sacramento's 2015 2nd round pick to Boston protected for selections 31-55 (if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then Sacramento's obligation to Boston will be extinguished) [Boston-Sacramento, 2/17/2009]

2016 first round draft pick from Brooklyn
Brooklyn's 2016 1st round pick to Boston [Boston-Brooklyn, 7/12/2013]

2016 second round draft pick from Miami
Miami's 2016 2nd round pick to Boston [Boston-Golden State-Miami, 1/15/2014]

2017 first round draft pick from Brooklyn
Boston has the right to swap its 2017 1st round pick for Brooklyn's 2017 1st round pick; if Boston exercises this swap right, then Boston will convey its 2017 2nd round pick to Brooklyn protected for selections 31-45 (if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then Boston's obligation to Brooklyn will be extinguished) [Boston-Brooklyn, 7/12/2013]

2017 second round draft pick from Sacramento
Sacramento's 2017 2nd round pick to Boston protected for selections 31-55 (if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then Sacramento's obligation to Boston will be extinguished) [Boston-Sacramento, 2/24/2011]

2018 first round draft pick from Brooklyn
Brooklyn's 2018 1st round pick to Boston [Boston-Brooklyn, 7/12/2013]


Couple of notes:

- 2015 1st of the 76ers is lottery protected. Unlikely that they will make the playoffs, then it becomes two 2nd round picks. That pick is less valuable than the 2015 Kings first owned by the Bulls
- 2017 1st is a right to swap; if exercised the Celtics would trade their own 2017 1st and 2nd to the Nets for the 2017 Nets 1st. Bulls have a similar swap option for the Cavs pick.
- 2015 Clippers 1st will likely be a very late 1st round pick
- 2015 and 2017 Kings pick, heavily protected 2nd round picks and rather unlikely to equate to anything, 2016 Miami 2nd will be what? Then the Celtics have to give up two of their 2nds. That is rather a negative here.

Yes, some of them are not amazing picks but some of them including this year could be very valuable. They have the most future and likely most valuable picks in the league with an aging BK team and Dwill being mediocre.
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Re: Love wants wants LA or NY (update pg 5, Chicago or GS to 

Post#1250 » by Ralphb07 » Sun Jun 1, 2014 10:41 pm

Houston will offer Asik, Parson and Jones

Golden State will offer Thompson, Barnes and Lee

I'm not sure if Gibson, Butler and Nikola beat those offers. I'd say we'd need to include picks as well.

It seems like it would cost a lot less to land Melo.

I doubt we nab either.
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Re: Love wants wants LA or NY (update pg 5, Chicago or GS to 

Post#1251 » by Deepness5134 » Sun Jun 1, 2014 11:04 pm

Ralphb07 wrote:Houston will offer Asik, Parson and Jones

Golden State will offer Thompson, Barnes and Lee

I'm not sure if Gibson, Butler and Nikola beat those offers. I'd say we'd need to include picks as well.

It seems like it would cost a lot less to land Melo.

I doubt we nab either.


Ralph i've missed some of your "rumor" posts throughout the past few threads. Can you give a quick update or anything thats going on w/ whatever you're able to talk about?
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Re: Love wants wants LA or NY (update pg 5, Chicago or GS to 

Post#1252 » by WinCity » Sun Jun 1, 2014 11:15 pm

Ralphb07 wrote:Houston will offer Asik, Parson and Jones

Golden State will offer Thompson, Barnes and Lee

I'm not sure if Gibson, Butler and Nikola beat those offers. I'd say we'd need to include picks as well.

It seems like it would cost a lot less to land Melo.

I doubt we nab either.



Well I dont see that HOU package being that enticing. Asik and Lin play positions they have good players in, Rubio and Pek. ASik and Lin dont offer an upgrade and are HUGELY expensive. I dont think they even have any valuable picks to male the offer more enticing.

That GS offer is very nice though. I would be all over that if I am Minny.
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Re: Love wants wants LA or NY (update pg 5, Chicago or GS to 

Post#1253 » by BullsFTW » Sun Jun 1, 2014 11:34 pm

Ralphb07 wrote:Houston will offer Asik, Parson and Jones

Golden State will offer Thompson, Barnes and Lee

I'm not sure if Gibson, Butler and Nikola beat those offers. I'd say we'd need to include picks as well.

It seems like it would cost a lot less to land Melo.

I doubt we nab either.

Where do you see both players landing?
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Re: Love wants wants LA or NY (update pg 5, Chicago or GS to 

Post#1254 » by kingkirk » Mon Jun 2, 2014 12:23 am

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/23 ... Kevin-Love

Tough talk or reality?

If it's the latter, you will kill your return Flip when he exercises that ETO next summer.
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Re: Love wants wants LA or NY (update pg 5, Chicago or GS to 

Post#1255 » by Red Larrivee » Mon Jun 2, 2014 12:29 am

KingCuban wrote:http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/233648/Wolves-Plan-On-Keeping-Kevin-Love

Tough talk or reality?

If it's the latter, you will kill your return Flip when he exercises that ETO next summer.


"Hey teams, your offers **** suck. Make them better." -Flip
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Re: Love wants wants LA or NY (update pg 5, Chicago or GS to 

Post#1256 » by kingkirk » Mon Jun 2, 2014 12:34 am

Red Larrivee wrote:"Hey teams, your offers **** suck. Make them better." -Flip


I have to assume this is Flip's angle. No way he is silly enough to think otherwise.
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Re: Love wants wants LA or NY (update pg 5, Chicago or GS to 

Post#1257 » by WinCity » Mon Jun 2, 2014 12:39 am

KingCuban wrote:
Red Larrivee wrote:"Hey teams, your offers **** suck. Make them better." -Flip


I have to assume this is Flip's angle. No way he is silly enough to think otherwise.



Yeah I have to believe this is posturing. If he is serious he will be out of a job in a season or two. Love has no future there. The city is no lure for him, the team isn't going anywhere their ceiling is a low seed in the west and getting knocked out by the top teams, and Love already felt disrespected during his previous contract negotiation. Lets just hope Flip is smart enough to trade him while he can get the most value.
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Re: Love wants wants LA or NY (update pg 5, Chicago or GS to 

Post#1258 » by kingkirk » Mon Jun 2, 2014 12:48 am

I have made it clear that Love is my preferred option over anyone else available at this point, but the more this goes on, the more i realise that it's likely not happening.

I am not so sure we're serious about landing him, and instead will go the Melo route.

I don't know how i feel about it, but will feel better if we do get Anthony.

I am not sure Love going to any other team makes them a true contender, especially if he stays out West.
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Re: Love wants wants LA or NY (update pg 5, Chicago or GS to 

Post#1259 » by TheStig » Mon Jun 2, 2014 12:51 am

KingCuban wrote:http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/233648/Wolves-Plan-On-Keeping-Kevin-Love

Tough talk or reality?

If it's the latter, you will kill your return Flip when he exercises that ETO next summer.

Denial.

The wolves are the last ones to accept Love is leaving Minny.
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Re: Love wants wants LA or NY (update pg 5, Chicago or GS to 

Post#1260 » by TheStig » Mon Jun 2, 2014 12:51 am

Ralphb07 wrote:Houston will offer Asik, Parson and Jones

Golden State will offer Thompson, Barnes and Lee

I'm not sure if Gibson, Butler and Nikola beat those offers. I'd say we'd need to include picks as well.

It seems like it would cost a lot less to land Melo.

I doubt we nab either.

The Celtics recently hosted Love and can offer Green, #6 and future picks.

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