Melo 15: The End Is Nigh

[Red Larrivee]

If the Bulls sign Mirotic can they use him in a S&T with the Knicks?

Only if they're signing him specificially to be used in a sign-and-trade, which isn't happening.

[IrishBeatdown]

Gotcha Coldfish. My mistake. I understand now.



Still... Gibson is the best player out of the group i mentioned. IF we Signed and traded Melo to you, you keep Gibson.

But again, in my offers you wouldnt be gutting your team. You still would have the majority of last years team still in tact.

If you wanted to keep Brewer, trade us Mirotic instead along with MCD.

Keep brewer and Taj and you guys are still a top defensive team. I honestly dont want Mirotic. I think he is another Euro stiff who can shoot. But he has some value.

As I noted before, we are in the theoretical phase of this thread. All signs right now are pointing to him not wanting to give up the 5/130.

That said, I think your trade is just a little too much. I agree about several of the things you are saying and I have argued for them myself on this board. Sign and trade is better than dumping Gibson by a lot. However, I think you are asking for more than the value of Taj Gibson.

How? What if both Mirotic and MCD are busts? Your a team that is on the cusp of competing for a championship... DO you really want to do that by breaking up your core that got you there?

Keep him for that price, lol. We can find another team to facilitate if Melo really wants to come here. Knicks are not the only team that can complete trades., and have no leverage at all in this situation.

[MisterRoy]

So, just a thought. You think the Bulls did their diligence with Gasol because it came up as an option with Carmelo in his meeting? The answer was "no" but they investigated it like they said they would?

[Peelboy]

Not to be a debby downer, and I hope I'm wrong, but my hunch is that the Bulls know that Melo isn't coming and due to this they have now proceeded with bringing over Mirotic who will cut into our cap space once we dump Boozer.

It's just the feeling I get with this sudden news that Mirotic has now been officially bought out, it almost seems to be that it's a signal that the Bulls front office is going into phase 2 of their off season plans and have closed the door on their hopes of signing Melo.

I hope I'm wrong though.

They could trade his rights to NY. There is now no doubt that NY could sign him. The whole "he will only play for Chicago" narrative is gone. Whomever has his rights will have him on their team.

As I said, it's the timing of it that has made me skeptical but you and others are right, perhaps it's the opposite, maybe Phil and our front office have come to terms on a sign and trade that involves Mirotic thus the news of his buy out.

I'm cautiously positive still, but as a Bulls fan we've been let down so many times, I'm jaded.

Timing cuts both ways. Bulls could be lining up what Mirotic will cost so Knicks have some certainty in S&T. Could be feeling out (not up) Gasol in case they have to deal Taj. Or could be making contingency plans or moving on.

It can only be good that Melo a)tried to get Gasol to commit but couldn't and b)is now taking his time. Obviously leaving NY and the $$$ is a tough decision, but clearly he's torn or you'd have more than "quietly confident from NYK."

[wonderboy2]

Gotcha Coldfish. My mistake. I understand now.



Still... Gibson is the best player out of the group i mentioned. IF we Signed and traded Melo to you, you keep Gibson.

But again, in my offers you wouldnt be gutting your team. You still would have the majority of last years team still in tact.

If you wanted to keep Brewer, trade us Mirotic instead along with MCD.

Keep brewer and Taj and you guys are still a top defensive team. I honestly dont want Mirotic. I think he is another Euro stiff who can shoot. But he has some value.

As I noted before, we are in the theoretical phase of this thread. All signs right now are pointing to him not wanting to give up the 5/130.

That said, I think your trade is just a little too much. I agree about several of the things you are saying and I have argued for them myself on this board. Sign and trade is better than dumping Gibson by a lot. However, I think you are asking for more than the value of Taj Gibson.

How? What if both Mirotic and MCD are busts? Your a team that is on the cusp of competing for a championship... DO you really want to do that by breaking up your core that got you there?

Tbh it was said last week by a poster in the Mirotic thread that he expects Mirotic to be bought out on July 4 and for the bulls to start negotiating his contract on that day. I forgot the reason behind it but it was the plan all along it seems.

[IndianPlaya17]

If the Bulls sign Mirotic can they use him in a S&T with the Knicks?

Only if they're signing him specificially to be used in a sign-and-trade, which isn't happening.

How are you so sure of this?

[Red Larrivee]

How are you so sure of this?

Because Chicago isn't going to give up valuable players in a sign-and-trade if Carmelo commits. They would have the leverage. They wouldn't have leverage if Melo went up to the Knicks and said "I'm not taking your money, sign-and-trade me to Chicago or Houston, I don't care which." Then, things become different.

Sign-and-trade contracts are different from regular contracts. The writing in the contract makes it so the deal becomes null if the sign-and-trade doesn't happen within a certain window. If Chicago isn't negotiating a contract with Mirotic to be used with Melo, then he's not getting traded.

[chifan1798]

Yeah, I've been thinking about this for a while now, because people are always saying, he isn't going to leave that $30 mil on the table, but then I realized, well, one contract is over 5 years, and the other is over 4. Melo's subsequent contract won't start at $30 (if he came here for 4 years), but I'm sure it would still be a hefty chunk of money......say for instance, about 20 mil, which would mean, in the end, he may only leave about 10 mil on the table. the risk would be if he suffered some type of major injury at that particular time, then the team would be less likely to give him another huge contract.

I'm almost wondering if it doesn't work out better that he sign the 4 year deal.....because then he can re-up when he is 33 years old, as opposed to 34. Maybe at 33, he's more likely to get a longer and higher paying final contract?

The argument would be the guaranteed money in that 5th year. However, there has to be off-court stuff that would more than make up for that.

Gotta think he's gonna sell a whole let more shoes in Chicago with the Jordan brand than in NY.

Yeah. I guess I look at it as a possible gamble in both scenarios. Injuries can ruin his chances to get anotehr big contract. But also, an additional year of playing before he signs for a new and final big contract could be risky too. How likely is a team going to be, giving him a big contract at 34? At 33, I think he'd have a better chance of getting a nice 4 year deal.

I do think some of the off court stuff could make up for it though. He's part of the Jordan Brand already, so him going to the bulls would help. I don't know if players get a cut from jersey sales, but simply him switching teams would boost his sales by a ton.....then the fact that bulls jerseys are just popular period, then he'd probably get even more sold coming here, as opposed to Houston? We'll see I guess

[Magilla_Gorilla]

If NY came out of their meeting with Melo absolutely certain he was returning Phil would have used his mouthpiece (Broussard) to let everyone know.

They didn't, so he didn't.

[punkmodafunk]

We can still trade Mirotic's rights without actually sign him, right?

[Magilla_Gorilla]

As I noted before, we are in the theoretical phase of this thread. All signs right now are pointing to him not wanting to give up the 5/130.

That said, I think your trade is just a little too much. I agree about several of the things you are saying and I have argued for them myself on this board. Sign and trade is better than dumping Gibson by a lot. However, I think you are asking for more than the value of Taj Gibson.

How? What if both Mirotic and MCD are busts? Your a team that is on the cusp of competing for a championship... DO you really want to do that by breaking up your core that got you there?

Tbh it was said last week by a poster in the Mirotic thread that he expects Mirotic to be bought out on July 4 and for the bulls to start negotiating his contract on that day. I forgot the reason behind it but it was the plan all along it seems.

Christ - I had forgotten all about that - but we definitely had a poster say it would happen July 4. I thought it was odd because of the holiday.

We also had a poster say a trade would go down today (not Taj). So, who knows?

[Magilla_Gorilla]

We can still trade Mirotic's rights without actually sign him, right?

Yes. And if anything their value has increased now that Nikola had bought out of his contract.

[Red Larrivee]

We can still trade Mirotic's rights without actually sign him, right?

Yes, but the fact that we're actually negotiating with him to sign a deal suggests otherwise.

[Mech Engineer]

How are you so sure of this?

Because Chicago isn't going to give up valuable players in a sign-and-trade if Carmelo commits. They would have the leverage. They wouldn't have leverage if Melo went up to the Knicks and said "I'm not taking your money, sign-and-trade me to Chicago or Houston, I don't care which." Then, things become different.

Sign-and-trade contracts are different from regular contracts. The writing in the contract makes it so the deal becomes null if the sign-and-trade doesn't happen within a certain window. If Chicago isn't negotiating a contract with Mirotic to be used with Melo, then he's not getting traded.

This is what might happen with Melo. Maybe he has learnt his lesson from the Denver trade but he didn't want to hurt Denver but still wanted NY. If he says to Phil, trade me to either Chicago or Houston and get the best deal for NY in a S & T, that changes the leverage.

It becomes a competition between Houston and Bulls.

[IrishBeatdown]

According to one of my source, Mirotic buyout should be finalized by 4th July but considering thats national holiday there in USA, it might be adjusted for few days, anyway expect buyout to be completed soon, there is like 90% chance that Mirotic will come over and play next season in NBA.

Vuc N Pek called this one, was all over it, called it a week ago. When he called it a week ago, not sure that you can claim the bulls are shifting into plan B. It was always going to be July 4. This was all part of the plan.

What this plan ends up being I don't have a clue. The mad scientists are at work.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

We can still trade Mirotic's rights without actually sign him, right?

Yes, but the fact that we're actually negotiating with him to sign a deal suggests otherwise.

Agreed. He's coming to Chicago and I couldn't be more excited. This is like Christmas.

Omer was my boo - and I'll never forget him - but Nikola is a better prospect than Omer ever was.

The Reign of Mirotic had just begun.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

According to one of my source, Mirotic buyout should be finalized by 4th July but considering thats national holiday there in USA, it might be adjusted for few days, anyway expect buyout to be completed soon, there is like 90% chance that Mirotic will come over and play next season in NBA.

Vuc N Pek called this one, was all over it, called it a week ago. When he called it a week ago, not sure that you can claim the bulls are shifting into plan B. It was always going to be July 4. This was all part of the plan.

What this plan ends up being I don't have a clue. The mad scientists are at work.

Shout out to Vuc N Pek for calling this and posting it here.

[IcemanGervin]

Well my worst fears are coming to light now. McDermott and Mirotic are nice pieces for sure, but unproven as they get and we still are searching for that second ball handler scorer like it is the holy grail.

[Rerisen]

Well my worst fears are coming to light now. McDermott and Mirotic are nice pieces for sure, but unproven as they get and we still are searching for that second ball handler scorer like it is the holy grail.

Such a team is screaming for a consolidation trade. The pieces used should be everyone but Rose and Noah.

[Procision]

Chicago gets
- Melo max
- JR Smith

Utah gets
- Carlos Boozer
- Tony Snell
- Dunleavy
- 4 mil of un guaranteed contracts
- Future 1st and 2nd round pick

NY Gets
- Greg Smith
- Multiple 1st and 2nd round picks
- Giant trade exception