Jazzfan1971 and FloppyMoose's Offseason Preview - 76ers

[Sixteen]

Its going to be weird when they end up with Nerlens Noel, Joel Embiid and Jahlil Okafor.

What's weird about having back to back to back projected #1 picks? Obviously somebody is going to get traded. Wiggins got Kevin Love, not much of an issue.

It was a joke that they'll end up with three guys that play the same position. Lighten up a bit.

How can you tell that I was replying in a defensive matter through text? I am lightened up

[wickedwrister]

Fans of non-Sixers teams I would love to hear your opinion of whether you believe the following players were long term answers for the Sixers that could be centerpieces for a top tier team:

1) Hawes on an expiring contract
2) Lavoy Allen on an expiring contract
3) Evan Turner on an expiring contract
4) Jrue Holliday on a 4 year contract

I'm willing to concede there would have been value to keeping Jrue.
However the return so far on Jrue is:
Jrue + Russ Smith for
1) Noel
2) Saric
3) Pierre Jackson
4) Orlando 2015 2nd round pick
5) Philly's 2017 1st back from Orlando (originally sent to Orlando in the Bynum debacle)
6) Improving Philly's 2014 #1 pick (difference between Embiid and Marcus Smart or Julius Randle)
7) Improving Philly's 2015 #1 pick

Now that's 3 1sts, 2 2nds and possibly bumping the Sixers up to getting Embiid versus a lesser player for Jrue and a 2nd. For a team that was going nowhere fast tell me that isn't a return you would jump at immediately.

[LloydFree]

I love McDaniels personally, but I doubt that he wins the starting shooting guard spot. He simply doesn't have the offensive skills to play guard. His jumpshot is a work in progress (there is still plenty ofhope for it), his passing is not that great, and his handle isn't that strong either. He can get points off of cuts and putbacks, but having a guy who's limited at everything playing SG a lot seems unlikely. I figure Wroten and McRae will spend a lot of time at the 2.

I agree with a lot of your assessment of KJMcD. I'm not sure if the 76ers are the type team that will maximize his talents, and more importantly, mask his weaknesses. He would have been better off drafted to a really good team like OKC or the Clippers. He doesn't have a good enough handle to be a starting SG in the NBA, right now. On a good team, with multiple scoring options and ball handlers, he could focus on being a "glue guy" while his jumper improved.

[QRich3]

I agree with a lot of your assessment of KJMcD. I'm not sure if the 76ers are the type team that will maximize his talents, and more importantly, mask his weaknesses. He would have been better off drafted to a really good team like OKC or the Clippers. He doesn't have a good enough handle to be a starting SG in the NBA, right now. On a good team, with multiple scoring options and ball handlers, he could focus on being a "glue guy" while his jumper improved.

While I haven't seen enough of him to know if he has a better chance to pan out than CJ Wilcox, I really wanted him for the Clippers, I was salivating on the idea of him alongside Bullock forming a tandem of long wing defenders to play off the ball next to Blake and Paul in the future.

5) Philly's 2017 1st back from Orlando (originally sent to Orlando in the Bynum debacle)

I never got that from Orlando's perspective, they gave a 1st and a 2nd to move up 2 spots? was the pick heavily protected?

To answer your question, I personally think moving Jrue was a risk that I'm not sure if I'd take, it'll depend on how Noel's career pans out. But my objection to Hinkie's plan is more about his obsession with maximizing lottery odds at the cost of not adding pieces that can be valuable in the future, either to turn into better assets or to keep long term. No sense in being 15 million under the cap or whatever you guys are right now, if you're not gonna use that flexibility for anything. I'd rather him take bad contracts in exchange for future assets, or sign one or two of those guys who don't move the needle and turn them into more assets down the road. Like we saw last year, you're not guaranteed to be the worst team anyway.

[Notanoob]

I love McDaniels personally, but I doubt that he wins the starting shooting guard spot. He simply doesn't have the offensive skills to play guard. His jumpshot is a work in progress (there is still plenty ofhope for it), his passing is not that great, and his handle isn't that strong either. He can get points off of cuts and putbacks, but having a guy who's limited at everything playing SG a lot seems unlikely. I figure Wroten and McRae will spend a lot of time at the 2.

I agree with a lot of your assessment of KJMcD. I'm not sure if the 76ers are the type team that will maximize his talents, and more importantly, mask his weaknesses. He would have been better off drafted to a really good team like OKC or the Clippers. He doesn't have a good enough handle to be a starting SG in the NBA, right now. On a good team, with multiple scoring options and ball handlers, he could focus on being a "glue guy" while his jumper improved.

What's worse is that the 76ers also drafted Jerami Grant, who has even weaker perimeter skills and can only play SF. Both players a fairly redundant and can't share the court on offense- McDaniels has slightly better perimeter skills and a better chance to develops them, while Grant is bigger and longer and will be able to guard more SFs effectively. Both desperately need other guys to creat looks for them around the rim, both need to develops at least a jumper, both shouldn't play any position other than SF. I wish them luck developing, but. Oth of these guys would be better served learning to play and stronger teams.

[wickedwrister]

5) Philly's 2017 1st back from Orlando (originally sent to Orlando in the Bynum debacle)

I never got that from Orlando's perspective, they gave a 1st and a 2nd to move up 2 spots? was the pick heavily protected?

To answer your question, I personally think moving Jrue was a risk that I'm not sure if I'd take, it'll depend on how Noel's career pans out. But my objection to Hinkie's plan is more about his obsession with maximizing lottery odds at the cost of not adding pieces that can be valuable in the future, either to turn into better assets or to keep long term. No sense in being 15 million under the cap or whatever you guys are right now, if you're not gonna use that flexibility for anything. I'd rather him take bad contracts in exchange for future assets, or sign one or two of those guys who don't move the needle and turn them into more assets down the road. Like we saw last year, you're not guaranteed to be the worst team anyway.

The pick was top 11 protected for 2 years and then unprotected in 2019 I believe (I could be wrong on that last part). Hinkie doesn't get enough credit for the stones he had to pull this off. He drafted Elfrid Payton with no trade in place with Orlando, just armed with the knowledge Orlando really liked him and wanted a PG in this draft. If Orlando had equally liked Levine or something like that Sixers would have been screwed. Anyway it appears Orlando really wanted their PG of the future now and Hinkie held them hostage for a ransom which is how that trade went down in such a lopsided fashion. Orlando got their guy but had to pay a premium for him. This is also how the horrendously awkward MCW draft day interview happened.

I think Hinkie is trying to use the cap space to acquire guys for other assets. At the deadline last year he used it to absorb Granger, Maynor, Mullens and Earl Clark in 4 different trades with 3 being bought out and Mullens opting out to go to China. The Sixers are more trying to keep their roster clear of veterans who help them win now and then leave next year. They are using all the roster spots on a bunch of D-league guys and hoping someone sticks and develops into a role player. I'd much rather have the likes of Hollis Thompson, Jordan Mcrae and Jarvis Vareado get some playing time over signing guys like Caron Butler and playing him 30 minutes a night. Eventually the cap space will get used and even if it doesnt there really is no penalty for being under the floor anyway.

[LloydFree]

I love McDaniels personally, but I doubt that he wins the starting shooting guard spot. He simply doesn't have the offensive skills to play guard. His jumpshot is a work in progress (there is still plenty ofhope for it), his passing is not that great, and his handle isn't that strong either. He can get points off of cuts and putbacks, but having a guy who's limited at everything playing SG a lot seems unlikely. I figure Wroten and McRae will spend a lot of time at the 2.

I agree with a lot of your assessment of KJMcD. I'm not sure if the 76ers are the type team that will maximize his talents, and more importantly, mask his weaknesses. He would have been better off drafted to a really good team like OKC or the Clippers. He doesn't have a good enough handle to be a starting SG in the NBA, right now. On a good team, with multiple scoring options and ball handlers, he could focus on being a "glue guy" while his jumper improved.

What's worse is that the 76ers also drafted Jerami Grant, who has even weaker perimeter skills and can only play SF. Both players a fairly redundant and can't share the court on offense- McDaniels has slightly better perimeter skills and a better chance to develops them, while Grant is bigger and longer and will be able to guard more SFs effectively. Both desperately need other guys to creat looks for them around the rim, both need to develops at least a jumper, both shouldn't play any position other than SF. I wish them luck developing, but. Oth of these guys would be better served learning to play and stronger teams.

On the other hand, McDaniels will probably get a lot of playing time to work on his weaknesses. He's not a guard, although that's how theses guys wrote him up in this "preview". He's an undersized SF. If everything works out, and all of his weaknesses strengthen to the max, he seems to have a Richard Jefferson type ceiling. An undersized, 3&D forward, 4th wheel type.

Jerami Grant may not be in such a bad spot. He is so raw, he would never get playing time on a good team. He just has to hope the 76ers are patient enough to develop him as a SF, and not hurry him out there as a PF due to his lack of current skills and their lack of depth at PF.

[Snotbubbles]

Fans of non-Sixers teams I would love to hear your opinion of whether you believe the following players were long term answers for the Sixers that could be centerpieces for a top tier team:

1) Hawes on an expiring contract
2) Lavoy Allen on an expiring contract
3) Evan Turner on an expiring contract
4) Jrue Holliday on a 4 year contract

I'm willing to concede there would have been value to keeping Jrue.
However the return so far on Jrue is:
Jrue + Russ Smith for
1) Noel
2) Saric
3) Pierre Jackson
4) Orlando 2015 2nd round pick
5) Philly's 2017 1st back from Orlando (originally sent to Orlando in the Bynum debacle)
6) Improving Philly's 2014 #1 pick (difference between Embiid and Marcus Smart or Julius Randle)
7) Improving Philly's 2015 #1 pick

Now that's 3 1sts, 2 2nds and possibly bumping the Sixers up to getting Embiid versus a lesser player for Jrue and a 2nd. For a team that was going nowhere fast tell me that isn't a return you would jump at immediately.

Some people think the Sixers should have tried to win 25-30 games last year instead of accumulating assets.

[wickedwrister]

Also as its been stated earlier in this thread I think Noel is going to play a lot of PF this year because they want to get him ready to play with Embiid next year. Will also help reduce the wear on his frame when he is guarding smaller players and will let him roam the floor a little as I think he is going to be an absolutely terrifying help defender the way Garnett was 10 years ago.

[LloydFree]

How do you write a "preview" of the 76ers and not mention Joel Embiid at all? Just seems to be an opposing fan with no knowledge of the team, using this as an opportunity to name-call other teams (76ers-Farm team, Lakers- Has beens, etc). Can't wait to see the "critical" analysis of the Jazz, from the two Jazz fans when that "preview" is posted.

I wonder if there will be a review of the Jazz front office for getting NOTHING for Al Jefferson, Paul Milsap and Demarre Carroll. Now that's a farm team (for the Hawks and Hornets).

[wickedwrister]

How do you write a "preview" of the 76ers and not mention Joel Embiid at all? Just seems to be an opposing fan with no knowledge of the team, using this as an opportunity to name-call other teams (76ers-Farm team, Lakers- Has beens, etc). Can't wait to see the "critical" analysis of the Jazz, from the two Jazz fans when that "preview" is posted.

I wonder if there will be a review of the Jazz front office for getting NOTHING for Al Jefferson, Paul Milsap and Demarre Carroll. Now that's a farm team (for the Hawks and Hornets).

That I understand, Embiid is fairly unlikely to play this year and even if he does it will be like 10 games. His twitter account will likely have more impact on the team this year than his presence on the court.

[sixerswillrule]

It was a joke that they'll end up with three guys that play the same position.

They both project as centers to me. If they both pan out, wouldn't it mean that the Sixers would keep one and trade the other?

On offense, Noel will play mostly from the high post and looks to have solid passing ability. Maybe will develop an average 15 footer. Embiid has the low post game and could develop some face up/midrange ability.
On defense, Noel has the agility to cover most of the court. Might lose a bit of his interior help D chasing some PFs but it'll still be valuable, no doubt. Embiid should be a great rim protector.
Potential Noel/Embiid = 2010-2012 Boozer/Noah on steroids.

[sixerswillrule]

How do you write a "preview" of the 76ers and not mention Joel Embiid at all? Just seems to be an opposing fan with no knowledge of the team, using this as an opportunity to name-call other teams (76ers-Farm team, Lakers- Has beens, etc). Can't wait to see the "critical" analysis of the Jazz, from the two Jazz fans when that "preview" is posted.

Case in point was when Spencer Hawes and Evan Turner were referred to as "studs". In 2014.

[jazzfan1971]

I think there was some confusion on the use of the word 'stud'. I was using it to refer to a 2x4. Not a horse. Or a fantastic player.

I apologize for the confusion.

[sixerswillrule]

*Case in point was when Spencer Hawes and Evan Turner were referred to as players that a team's future should be built on. In 2014.

[suntzuballin]

article is good 76ers deffently just see what they got.williams,noel,bennent,mcdaniels and grant will be there focus,hopefully embiid will see the floor.I like noel too and tony worton is ok player.

[suntzuballin]

Interesting take but like the others I don't get a sense of a "farm team" from the Sixers. They dismantled a mediocre team and got some pretty good assets for them along the way.

I get the sense that Noel and Embiid are the building blocks going forward and neither will be traded unless they're skill sets don't mesh.

MCW could be dealt, but he's not exactly a stud you build a team around.

farm team it seems like it..76ers are probly just drafting bpa then build them up to trade them ..in there rebuild within 4 years they will probly do alot of dealing more then all the teams in the nba..noel and embiid play same position dont they..

[AussieCeltic]

I think there was some confusion on the use of the word 'stud'. I was using it to refer to a 2x4. Not a horse. Or a fantastic player.

I apologize for the confusion.

You're a moderator, when on this forum as a "stud" ever been referred to as someone other than a great player?

[jazzfan1971]

Well, someone else talked about 'tearing it down to the studs' and I was following the analogy by saying those guys were studs.

[joeyAdaMan]

i just don't understand why tanking is suddenly a big deal...or deemed wrong....people have openly talked about/joked about tanking for years....i've seen fans of other teams on here promote tanking PLENTY.....heck we've seen teams openly tank IRL ALL the time.....anyways i like some of the analysis in this thread but i can't understand how people can argue Hinkie has really been given any choice since taking over....i think he's done about as well as he could considering the mess he inherited.....fantastic return for Jrue....not crazy about taking similar/injured players in BTB drafts but if they both can get their legs under them and fulfill their potential it will be well worth it....this is going to be another rough year(remember its only freakin year TWO of the rebuild people) but 6ers fans already knew that before even last season ended....while i definitely wish we had more pieces on the roster that could contribute THIS year, as long as Noel shows us something and MCW improves i won't see it as a complete waste....now if we resemble a D league team NEXT year or at the very least don't start forming SOME sort of identity....then i will be concerned....it's very much a wait and see game with this team even though it seems like fans of other teams(plenty who have NO right to talk based on the team they root for BTW) want to condemn them, as if tanking hasn't been around for DECADES