Leafs 2014-15 Season Thread

[whysoserious]

Squeaking into the playoffs as the 8th seed in the NHL isn't so bad because the playoffs are a crap shoot.

Yes the playoffs are a crapshoot but you're basically saying let's hope we're okay and then over the course of two months for everything to break in our favour.

That is not what you want if you're a fan of the team. You want them to build a true contender so squeaking in after 1 playoff appearance in 9 years is not what anyone should want or be content with. Getting the 8th seed while seeing potential is totally different from what you described though.

[Raps in 4]

Squeaking into the playoffs as the 8th seed in the NHL isn't so bad because the playoffs are a crap shoot.

Yes the playoffs are a crapshoot but you're basically saying let's hope we're okay and then over the course of two months for everything to break in our favour.

That is not what you want if you're a fan of the team. You want them to build a true contender so squeaking in after 1 playoff appearance in 9 years is not what anyone should want or be content with. Getting the 8th seed while seeing potential is totally different from what you described though.

That's not what I want either. I just wanted to make it clear that an eighth seed in the NHL is much different from an eighth seed in the NBA. The Kings are a prime example of a mediocre regular season team dominating in the playoffs.

[whysoserious]

That's not what I want either. I just wanted to make it clear that an eighth seed in the NHL is much different from an eighth seed in the NBA. The Kings are a prime example of a mediocre regular season team dominating in the playoffs.

You're still comparing two different things. The Kings were on another level talent wise that under performed in the regular season. They should have been a top Western Conference team. Also, being an 8th seed out west is different than being an 8th seed in the East, similar to the NBA.

The fact is the Leafs even squeezing in as an 8th seed has minimal chance of doing anything significant, not even half the team the Kings were as an 8th seed.

[BramptonYute]

The Kings were an underpeforming team, until Sutter was brought in and they went on a run and made the playoffs. They were playing solid hockey well before they made playoffs.

[LLJ]

Things getting ugly already between fans and the team this early in the season. I wonder if we're not starting to reach a breaking point finally when it comes to fan apathy. I sensed absolutely no buzz in the city about the Leafs going into the season. Even in the bad years (are we even actually past that yet?) the kool-aid was still there.

Many of the problems we saw last year is still there so far. Poor puck possession, sketchy defensive play, no protection for our goalies.

[whysoserious]

Things getting ugly already between fans and the team this early in the season. I wonder if we're not starting to reach a breaking point finally when it comes to fan apathy. I sensed absolutely no buzz in the city about the Leafs going into the season. Even in the bad years (are we even actually past that yet?) the kool-aid was still there.

Many of the problems we saw last year is still there so far. Poor puck possession, sketchy defensive play, no protection for our goalies.

Teams that were better than us right after the lockout have taken steps back and then improved and surpassed us.

The Leafs are selling some of the youth they have and it's good but not a single of our prospects, aside from Reilly maybe has stud potential.

This teams unwillingness to rebuild has held them back now going on a decade. Even if they did commit to rebuilding though, their scouting has been so horrendous that we'd probably fail at that too. Then you add their horrible cap management during the salary cap era has been a joke. A fail on all fronts.

They should move any and everyone not named Bernier and Reilly and a few other prospects but beyond that no one should be untouchable and they should commit to a proper rebuild.

[BramptonYute]

Bernier was great tonight. The rest of the team wasnt.

[J Dilla]

polak's a terrible fit with this team.

clarksons been picking it up. if this contract can be traded while his stock is high, they must go with it

[whysoserious]

polak's a terrible fit with this team.

clarksons been picking it up. if this contract can be traded while his stock is high, they must go with it

That third line was awesome tonight and for most of the first 6 games they've been on. At the same time it outlines the problems with the Leafs. Paying $5.5 million for a third line player is exactly how you don't manage your cap in this era.

At least Clarkson is finally providing some value.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Their scouting has been relatively good compared to most teams, actually. Not the problem. Leadership has been a disaster since the Burke hiring. Burke gives Dion the "C" without him earning it. Burke gets fired. Nonis gets the fat extension from Leweike without earning it. Leweike then hires Shanny, who has no experience in a front office and asks him to hire around Nonis so that that extension doesn't look so stupid. Meanwhile Randy sees the gong show going on and squeezes an extension out of them, when he should have been fired. We're now in a period where Shanahan has to learn on the job and work around TL and DN's goof-ups. It's just going to take some time for them to get their systems in place, and for some of the younger players to mature. I'd say that 4 of the 6 games have been good efforts.

[whysoserious]

Their scouting has been relatively good compared to most teams, actually. Not the problem. Leadership has been a disaster since the Burke hiring. Burke gives Dion the "C" without him earning it. Burke gets fired. Nonis gets the fat extension from Leweike without earning it. Leweike then hires Shanny, who has no experience in a front office and asks him to hire around Nonis so that that extension doesn't look so stupid. Meanwhile Randy sees the gong show going on and squeezes an extension out of them, when he should have been fired. We're now in a period where Shanahan has to learn on the job and work around TL and DN's goof-ups. It's just going to take some time for them to get their systems in place, and for some of the younger players to mature. I'd say that 4 of the 6 games have been good efforts.

I don't know that the scouting can be touted as good. It's been better than the Leafs history in that they aren't drafting total busts and are now at least drafting guys that are turning in to solid NHL players but they still haven't been able to find those breakout players. And while I agree, this isn't easy and they've over-estimated the strength of their teams for 9 years now leaving them in that mid lottery draft position other teams have improved significantly and the Leafs just compound those lack of draft hits with poor cap management.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I don't know that the scouting can be touted as good. It's been better than the Leafs history in that they aren't drafting total busts and are now at least drafting guys that are turning in to solid NHL players but they still haven't been able to find those breakout players. And while I agree, this isn't easy and they've over-estimated the strength of their teams for 9 years now leaving them in that mid lottery draft position other teams have improved significantly and the Leafs just compound those lack of draft hits with poor cap management.

That's a very narrow idea of what successful drafting is. I think they've been one of the more proficient teams at finding NHL players in the draft. There's only a handful of NHL stars that come from those later picks anyway, so over the span of however long our scouting department has been together it doesn't seem fair to hang that failure on them.

I would look at almost everything else before I blamed the scouting department. Hell, it wasn't until a few months ago that they even believed in puck possession as being a relevant statistic. That's like a massive failure of leadership. Now they have to basically go out and analyze who is at fault and slowly make adjustments.

[whysoserious]

That's a very narrow idea of what successful drafting is. I think they've been one of the more proficient teams at finding NHL players in the draft. There's only a handful of NHL stars that come from those later picks anyway, so over the span of however long our scouting department has been together it doesn't seem fair to hang that failure on them.

I would look at almost everything else before I blamed the scouting department. Hell, it wasn't until a few months ago that they even believed in puck possession as being a relevant statistic. That's like a massive failure of leadership. Now they have to basically go out and analyze who is at fault and slowly make adjustments.

I don't think it's narrow at all. I agree that it starts at the top and filters down. And this scouting staff is slowly doing a better job of drafting, especially considering how bad they were through many regimes of the past.

What you're seeing as the problem is the plan starting at the top, leadership and direction. This is a bigger issue than scouting which I'm pointing to as one of the problems (I mentioned a few others). But even with the right direction and leadership, I'm still not confident in this group to execute either. Not with Nonis around and who knows what Shanny will do in his role.

We're talking about a team that's made 1 playoff appearance in 10 years and yet continues to build the same way it has but thinking it will fix everything with a free agent signing or waiting for guys like Staal to hit the market in FA or land them through a trade.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I don't think it's narrow at all. I agree that it starts at the top and filters down. And this scouting staff is slowly doing a better job of drafting, especially considering how bad they were through many regimes of the past.

It's narrow to grade a scouting staff based on their ability to land star talent. When this Leafs scouting department has drafted high, they've generally picked the best player available in that range. Detroit went nearly a decade between drafting Zetterberg and another star player, and they're considered the best at finding those gems. Should the Leafs' staff be criticized for generally making good use of their higher picks and not landing a star with a later pick? I think their head of scouting has been on the job since 2006 and that includes 3 GMs and trading what ended up being two high firsts for Kessel. I think they've only had five 2nd round picks in 9 years, too. For all we know there's a future star in the system right now.

We're talking about a team that's made 1 playoff appearance in 10 years and yet continues to build the same way it has but thinking it will fix everything with a free agent signing or waiting for guys like Staal to hit the market in FA or land them through a trade.

Is the Staal rumour attributed to the Leafs' front office? Seems media generated. And how have they continued to build the same way? They just overhauled their front office to catch up to the rest of the league.

[Brew666]

Mark Hunter has been hired as the Director of Player Personnel. The signing seems to come out of nowhere but I like it. Shows Shanny is still working behind the scenes and can't really argue with Hunter's track record, be it in the OHL.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/leaf ... nt-office/

[whysoserious]

Mark Hunter has been hired as the Director of Player Personnel. The signing seems to come out of nowhere but I like it. Shows Shanny is still working behind the scenes and can't really argue with Hunter's track record, be it in the OHL.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/leaf ... nt-office/

I like this hiring too but at the same time I'm hesitant to get excited. Remember when Burke was brining in all those qualified personnel in to the front office, really didn't do much for us.

We had Burke, Nonis, Loiselle, Poile if I'm not mistaken.

Now we've got Shanny, Dumas, Hunter, Nonis.

I think the writing is on the wall that Nonis may slowly be pushed aside which I'm not too upset about. If they do land Babcock as coach then a Shanny, Dumas, Hunter and Babcock running the organization could actually lead to results.

Not a fan of the way Nonis manages the cap so we need someone that is the GM that understands how to manage the cap.

[Brew666]

You're right, they haven't turned around the franchise and so far it's only another name on the payroll. I do like the fact that these people aren't recycled trash though. By looking at who's been progressive and successful in other leagues and how they're doing it, it at least shows some forward thinking on their behalf.

I have a feeling Nonis and Carlyle are sitting ducks this year with Shannahan having his target on Babcock for head coach and a front office job depending how the season plays out. I'm thinking Babcock wants a bigger piece of the pie, and that's why extension talks in Detroit aren't happening. Shannahan is probably willing to give him the title of head coach/asst. gm/vp of whatever and have him a part of the brain trust moving forward.

Only way I see Carlyle staying is if the team greatly overachieves, like wining their division, or a deep playoff run. Short of that, I think he's on his way out by the end of the season if not during. If he doesn't finish the season then Spott or Horacek take over for the interim. Shanny has setup the scenario where he's given Carlyle a chance but if he doesn't meet expectations, he's out of there. If they got rid of Carlyle last off season, it would be a bit different b/c it's pretty tough to let go of a coach after one year unless if he completely sh*ts the bed.

I think Nonis has a bit more wiggle room than Carlyle and it's b/c there isn't someone on the outside of the organziation that Shanny wants for that role. If the Leafs make the playoffs, Nonis is safe. Other than that, he's gone. W/ Dubas and Hunter you at least have a couple of solid internal candidates.

I don't think playoffs are a must for Shannahan this year and he's going to let things develop naturally. He's put Nonis, Carlyle and the players all in a situation where they have to prove their worth and I'm all for it.

By the start of next year I'm expecting Carlyle and Nonis to be gone w/ a front office of Shanny, Dubas, Hunter, and Babcock being the main guys. Spott and Horacek continue as assistant coaches and you have an alright succession plan moving forward. Dubas and Hunter as potential GM candidates, Babcock for a front office position. And w/ the coaching you'd have Babcock w/ Spott and Horacek as potential suitors.

[whysoserious]

I'm actually getting tired of watching this core group just keep playing the same way with little overall development.

It's hard to say because there's some guys within the core that I like, Kessel, Lupul, JVR, Gardiner, been a Franson fan but I'm just done watching them make the same mistakes over and over again. When they're streaky and scoring, it all looks good but they don't play fundamentally sound hockey consistently enough that when they go in slumps they can over come it.

The Jays are very similar. At this point even all the Staal talk wouldn't really make a huge difference, IMO.


I would basically trade everyone not named Bernier and Reilly.

[BramptonYute]

Clearly this team doesnt give a **** or Carlyle just cant seem to motivate these guys. They had a players only meeting tonight, so we'll see what happens.

Hopefully Nonis is working the phones and pretty much shopping everyone, except Reilly.

[J Dilla]

im not sure why people expected a win or any kind of effort against the bruins. the leafs are pretty much guaranteed to lose against them.

kadri said the team doesn't care. carlyle needs to leave.