Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs

NashtyNas · Post #1381 » by **NashtyNas** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:11 pm

MrMiyagi wrote:
I_Socrates wrote:Again the same people that in the trade thread said Len was better now and in the future are now saying "oh I never said he'd be as good." That's being insincere and inconsistent. Let's have this discussion in 3 years when we know what Len actually turned out to be, because Noah is about to be a pivotal player on a championship or bust team while Len may or may not ever turn out to be better than Robin friggin Lopez.

And Noah could break his hip tomorrow and be done for his career. What's your point?

So now we're going to judge value based on an injury that might or might not happen? Are you really asking me what my point is after fabricating situations to devalue players? REALLY?

No one seemed to counter any of the facts (like the fact that our average age of rotational players is 26 already) or that Noah makes us better now and for the next 3 years. Instead you keep touting "oh we're so young" and "oh we're rebuilding" as a reason to not get better. That's just foolish. Unless your young big guy is Drummond, Davis or Cousins calibre, he's not untouchable, especially not when you can get a DPOY in return.

Revived · Post #1382 » by **Revived** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:18 pm

Noah is actually injured right now. And he hasn't looked good since coming from injury in the first place.

YouTube · Post #1383 » by **Kerrsed** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:19 pm

I_Socrates wrote:Again the same people that in the trade thread said Len was better now and in the future are now saying "oh I never said he'd be as good." That's being insincere and inconsistent. Let's have this discussion in 3 years when we know what Len actually turned out to be, because Noah is about to be a pivotal player on a championship or bust team while Len may or may not ever turn out to be better than Robin friggin Lopez.

F that. I said he has a higher ceiling than Noah, and havent retracted that statement one bit.

MrMiyagi · Post #1384 » by **MrMiyagi** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:24 pm

I_Socrates wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:
I_Socrates wrote:Again the same people that in the trade thread said Len was better now and in the future are now saying "oh I never said he'd be as good." That's being insincere and inconsistent. Let's have this discussion in 3 years when we know what Len actually turned out to be, because Noah is about to be a pivotal player on a championship or bust team while Len may or may not ever turn out to be better than Robin friggin Lopez.

And Noah could break his hip tomorrow and be done for his career. What's your point?

So now we're going to judge value based on an injury that might or might not happen? Are you really asking me what my point is after fabricating situations to devalue players? REALLY?

No one seemed to counter any of the facts (like the fact that our average age of rotational players is 26 already) or that Noah makes us better now and for the next 3 years. Instead you keep touting "oh we're so young" and "oh we're rebuilding" as a reason to not get better. That's just foolish. Unless your young big guy is Drummond, Davis or Cousins calibre, he's not untouchable, especially not when you can get a DPOY in return.

Aren't you doing that by saying that Len will only become Robin Lopez, as well as inflating Noah by saying that he's about to be a pivotal player on a championship or bust team? Doesn't the or bust imply that the team will not be able to have an opportunity to win another in the future? It's a win now cause another shot will likely never happen kind of term, isn't it?

Our plan, when McD took the front office, was building through the draft and not compromising potential long term success. Getting Noah for a 3 year stint by giving up Len who is only 21 seems like the EXACT OPPOSITE of that.

Didn't we just make trades where we got younger players for older players? Isn't that how we went from 7th youngest team to 4th?

MrMiyagi · Post #1385 » by **MrMiyagi** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:28 pm

And aren't Drummond's numbers from his rookie year (which was a pretty darn full one) and Len's numbers this season pretty damn similar? So couldn't you say Len is a Drummond caliber player? Or are you saying we cannot allot Len the same amount of time Drummond had to develop?

EDIT: Heck, Len's numbers now are as similar to Noah's his rookie season too. And guess what? Len is younger than Noah was!

BurningHeart · Post #1386 » by **BurningHeart** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:40 pm

If Noah's about to be a pivotal player on a championship-or-bust team, then why the **** would Chicago trade him to us anyway?

This whole discussion is dumb as hell.

Post #1387 » by **lilfishi22** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:44 pm

I_Socrates wrote:Again the same people that in the trade thread said Len was better now and in the future are now saying "oh I never said he'd be as good." That's being insincere and inconsistent. Let's have this discussion in 3 years when we know what Len actually turned out to be, because Noah is about to be a pivotal player on a championship or bust team while Len may or may not ever turn out to be better than Robin friggin Lopez.

Len is one of my favourite players this season and I think he's going to be a fine player (maybe even a top 3 C in a few short years). But a 2nd year big man who's hasn't had his first consecutive double digit rebounding games until two weeks ago and to project him to have accolades like DPOY, multiple All-NBA defensive teams, be in MVP conversations and multiple All-Star seasons is a big call. Not saying it isn't possible but I just have issues with people using Len's last 5-10 games as some sort of bonafide indication that he's on that trajectory.

Revived · Post #1388 » by **Revived** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:45 pm

Wiretap saying that Cavs are interested in acquiring a vet PG.

IT for Marion, expirings + maybe 1st rd pick like in 2019 or something?

Saberestar · Post #1389 » by **Saberestar** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:54 pm

SF88 wrote:Wiretap saying that Cavs are interested in acquiring a vet PG.

IT for Marion, expirings + maybe 1st rd pick like in 2019 or something?

IT is more valuable than that. We can work a three team trade.

YouTube · Post #1390 » by **Kerrsed** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:11 am

Yeah, IT has too much value to trade him for Marion straight up.

Cav's need to go after Jack/Sessions for the veteran PG help.

thamadkant · Post #1391 » by **thamadkant** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:25 am

BurningHeart wrote:If Noah's about to be a pivotal player on a championship-or-bust team, then why the **** would Chicago trade him to us anyway?

This whole discussion is dumb as hell.

Thats the thing... Bulls ARE NOT trading Noah..

thats why all the hot heads here are just debating who is better for whom.

For Bulls, Noah is better...

For Suns, Len is better...

thamadkant · Post #1392 » by **thamadkant** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:32 am

MrMiyagi wrote:
1UPZ wrote:The Noah vs Len debate falls under the "NOW vs LATER" argument.

Look at Celtics when they traded their future for Kevin Garnett, but they only did it because it would push them to be the BEST East team for 4-5 years after the trade and be a championship contender. They traded a young Al Jefferson and a bunch of decent players.

The Suns UNFORTUNATELY or FORTUNATELY, depending on your perspective, do not have a prime Paul Pierce level player and does not have another trade in line for another team MVP level player like Ray Allen.

So the Suns do not have that incentive to trade a LATER player like Len for a NOW player like Noah... and Bulls woulnt do it either.

Now, if the Suns somehow had a trade to bring in Carmelo Anthony in the works, whilst keeping Dragic and Bledsoe... then trading for Noah would make sense... because that 4 would be enough to put them on the same level as the West's best teams.

C: Noah / Wright / veteran FA
PF: Anthony / veteran FA
SF: Tucker / McDermott
SG: Dragic / Green /Goodwin
PG: Bledsoe / veteran FA / Ennis
*Assuming Warren, Thomas,, picks, Morris brothers were part of the trade heading out.

But the Suns dont... so they keep their 5-10 year projection and build a team to contend maybe around 2016 and beyond.

WHY ARE WE HAVING THIS CONVO AT ALL IF WE KNOW IT ISN'T HAPPENING AND NOT THE PLAN?!?!?!

Because everyone has different perspective and opinions... surprising.

wordsenuff · Post #1393 » by **wordsenuff** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:47 am

sounds like archie is kind of pissed about some suns moves. cant blame him.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2 ... ran-dragic

sunsbum · Post #1394 » by **sunsbum** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:48 am

Ain't got time for this Noah crap, he's going to make zero difference in the short term and zero difference in the long term. Len has so much more potential. Any talk of trading Len starts with Durant and ends with Anthony Davis.

AZWildByNature · Post #1395 » by **AZWildByNature** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:08 am

Green, while happy that the team is winning, has not been pleased with a reduced role. He can become a free agent in the summer, which makes him an obvious trade target. But sources told Sporting News that there is “no way” the Suns will move Green this year. [link]http://mobile.sportingnews.com/article/4633009-phoenix-suns-nba-trade-rumors-archie-goodwin-d-league-bakersfield-jam-gerald-green-isaiah-thomas-goran-dragic?modid=http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2Fwkm7urega2[/link]

thamadkant · Post #1396 » by **thamadkant** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:11 am

wordsenuff wrote:sounds like archie is kind of pissed about some suns moves. cant blame him.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2 ... ran-dragic

it sounds like he is confused about the moves... Suns have a log jam in PGs and SGs... they trade a C for another SG...
BUT, Bullock is actually an SF down the line... or by next season if he bulks up... a young Tucker.

letsgosuns · Post #1397 » by **letsgosuns** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:14 am

wordsenuff wrote:sounds like archie is kind of pissed about some suns moves. cant blame him.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2 ... ran-dragic

Archie is a 6'5" athletic freak with ball handling skills and the Suns continue to throw a 5'9" ball stopping selfish point guard out there instead of him. I would be mad too. It is ridiculous. I could care less about Thomas' feelings wanting to play or his impact. He is not a winning basketball player and has no business being on this team. I would rather Green, Goodwin, and Ennis backup Bledsoe and Dragic and then trade Thomas. Goodwin has shown the ability to drive to the hoop and finish or get fouled. His jump shot needs improvement but so did Tucker's. Goodwin has not really been given a chance and there is no reason for it. I am a believer of putting the young guys out there. What do the Suns have to lose? It is not like Isaiah Thomas is going to lead them to a championship.

Jdiddy701 · Post #1398 » by **Jdiddy701** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:17 am

Don't like how Archie is handling himself. He needs to understand his age. He barely played well vs NBDL players. Not liking this at all.

Revived · Post #1399 » by **Revived** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:17 am

wordsenuff wrote:sounds like archie is kind of pissed about some suns moves. cant blame him.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2 ... ran-dragic

Yea he's done very well when given minutes, the Suns just prefer having 3pt chuckers all around them rather than guys who are strong defensively and take it to the hoop (Bledsoe being an exception).

Revived · Post #1400 » by **Revived** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:19 am

Jdiddy701 wrote:Don't like how Archie is handling himself. He needs to understand his age. He barely played well vs NBDL players. Not liking this at all.

LOL most players in Goodwin's situation would have already demanded a trade by now. He's been a complete professional throughout it all.

Most people, like Goodwin, are confused by the Suns fetish for PGs and other guards. Loading up on million guards has never been successful for any team ever.