Trade Targets (postcript on yesterday-other teams)

msiris · Post #4321 » by **msiris** » Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:20 pm

ampd wrote:
msiris wrote:Some of you act like Middleton is a great player. He will not make us a contender. He would be a nice player on a contending team, but we still need more to reach that level.

He's a nice player for us. Dante would have to be a clear cut star to be a better player.

Khris can attack mismatches due to his size, play good defense, and shoot the 3 at an elite level.

Since being put back in the starting lineup he's been 14/5/2 on ~.61 TS%. Everything about his on/off, RAPM, RPM, etc is elite. If he scored a few more PPGZ he'd probably get some all star attention.

He's also 23 and not necessarily done improving either. On top of that he might even be underutilized now. I don't get wanting to trade him for pure upside / project player guys. I could maybe understand it if Khris was 29 instead of barely 23, but he's not.

Khris is a lottery ticket we hit on, and he's still young and likely not prohibitively expensive due to his box score stats. Trading him for another lottery ticket is bad asset management, not some principled move toward a championship. I understand when fans of other teams or national guys underrate him because of his draft position and the fact he plays for Milwaukee. I don't get it when Bucks fans do it.

See in my opinion you are overvaluing him while you think I am undervaluing him. I am looking to build a championship team. Khris is not an all star. He is a nice fit on a contending team, but the Bucks aren't there yet. If he can net us a player who can push us to the next level I am all for it. And do not make it like I do not like him, because I do like him.

msiris · Post #4322 » by **msiris** » Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:26 pm

weezybaby856 wrote:I wonder what Sam Presti thinks nowadays after turning James Harden into Jeremy Lamb and Steven Adams and saving himself 8million in cap space after it was all said and done. I'm not comparing Middleton to Harden but the premise of everyone's opinion seems to favor the same thing Presti had in mind as well and he looks like a total bozo for it.

Middleton and Harden are not even remotely close at all.

Frank Nova · Post #4323 » by **Frank Nova** » Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:37 pm

msiris wrote:
weezybaby856 wrote:I wonder what Sam Presti thinks nowadays after turning James Harden into Jeremy Lamb and Steven Adams and saving himself 8million in cap space after it was all said and done. I'm not comparing Middleton to Harden but the premise of everyone's opinion seems to favor the same thing Presti had in mind as well and he looks like a total bozo for it.
Middleton and Harden are not even remotely close at all.

Clearly u missed the part where I said I wasn't comparing Middleton to Harden. It was more of a comparison of most opinions on this board to Sam Presti... Might want to re-read my post...

UWM_Brew_Buck · Post #4324 » by **UWM_Brew_Buck** » Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:47 pm

weezybaby856 wrote:
TheWig wrote:I would easily trade Middleton for Exum. Our goal is to win a championship... We have to take risks in order to accomplish that.

No offense but that's a terrible philosophy. Turning assets into question marks isn't exactly the guaranteed recipe for success your claiming there... Trading a clear cut NBA player for someone that looks terrible but has hype around him is quite frankly the opposite of what winning a championship consists of. The Lakers trading Vlade for rookie Kobe might be the only example you may ever find that could validate your statement and they didn't win anything until Shaq came to town. Id love for you to elaborate..

What guaranteed claim of success are you referring to? Turning assets into potential mega assets is a good philosophy for a non contending team. You are acting as if the Bucks are championship contenders right now, they are not. Exum's ceiling is well worth the risk of losing Middleton since we are not true contenders right now. If we win a championship it will be because of Giannis and Parker becoming stars. Middleton is a nice player but his impact doesn't determine if we will win championships.

UWM_Brew_Buck · Post #4325 » by **UWM_Brew_Buck** » Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:56 pm

weezybaby856 wrote:
msiris wrote:
weezybaby856 wrote:I wonder what Sam Presti thinks nowadays after turning James Harden into Jeremy Lamb and Steven Adams and saving himself 8million in cap space after it was all said and done. I'm not comparing Middleton to Harden but the premise of everyone's opinion seems to favor the same thing Presti had in mind as well and he looks like a total bozo for it.
Middleton and Harden are not even remotely close at all.

Clearly u missed the part where I said I wasn't comparing Middleton to Harden. It was more of a comparison of most opinions on this board to Sam Presti... Might want to re-read my post...

The comparison makes no sense, none of the assets in trade are even close to Exum's potential and as you stated Middleton isn't even close to an OKC Harden. I think a similar trade would be the Suns doing Dudley for Bledsoe. The Suns lost a fine NBA player in Dudley and took a risk on Bledsoe but Bledsoe panned out.

mlloyd10 · Post #4326 » by **mlloyd10** » Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:02 pm

Please move on from Exum talk. We aren't trading for him.

Mihai · Post #4327 » by **Mihai** » Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:02 pm

It's safe to say for now that Middleton is good enough and doesn't need to be replaced. Our big problem is at C. I still think Koufos would be nice.

AussieBuck · Post #4328 » by **AussieBuck** » Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:04 pm

The way I choose to see it is that if the Jazz are willing to trade Exum for Middleton they are also going to trade him for Knight/Henson/Clippers 1st. Problem solved.

BUCKSFORLIFE · Post #4329 » by **BUCKSFORLIFE** » Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:14 pm

UWM_Brew_Buck wrote:
weezybaby856 wrote:
TheWig wrote:I would easily trade Middleton for Exum. Our goal is to win a championship... We have to take risks in order to accomplish that.

No offense but that's a terrible philosophy. Turning assets into question marks isn't exactly the guaranteed recipe for success your claiming there... Trading a clear cut NBA player for someone that looks terrible but has hype around him is quite frankly the opposite of what winning a championship consists of. The Lakers trading Vlade for rookie Kobe might be the only example you may ever find that could validate your statement and they didn't win anything until Shaq came to town. Id love for you to elaborate..

What guaranteed claim of success are you referring to? Turning assets into potential mega assets is a good philosophy for a non contending team. You are acting as if the Bucks are championship contenders right now, they are not. Exum's ceiling is well worth the risk of losing Middleton since we are not true contenders right now. If we win a championship it will be because of Giannis and Parker becoming stars. Middleton is a nice player but his impact doesn't determine if we will win championships.

Do you really know anything about basketball? You living in dream world my friend. WAKE UP.

CannondaleF400 · Post #4330 » by **CannondaleF400** » Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:25 pm

msiris wrote:
CannondaleF400 wrote:Remember the post-Redd Skiles teams when nobody could shoot? Please please keep Khris. Giannis, Parker, even Knight can control the ball, drive and kick out to him. Khris also doesn't seem to have the ego to complain about handling the ball and getting his own shots. Seems like an excellent team player.
Will those four ever make us a true contender? I am not so sure.

I think the Bucks can build a true contender around Giannis and Jabari. Contenders usually have one or two lights-out shooters and Khris can be that guy. Not sure about Knight, but between him and Middleton an argument could be made that they could equate to the "third star." All this is based on potential, but from what we've seen so far it would be interesting to watch this this combo of 19-23 year olds grow together over the next few years.

Jez2983 · Post #4331 » by **Jez2983** » Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:28 pm

I wonder if people who think Exum isn't an NBA player felt similarly about Giannis?

I also feel our staff would do amazing things with Exum.

I finally wonder if some people would have done a Klay Thompson for Giannis trade last year (assuming Klay re-signed with us)

Exum for Mids would be interesting, but moving Knight instead would be better.

Prince12 · Post #4332 » by **Prince12** » Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:42 pm

Knight for Exum if ever possible would be ridiculous to knock back.

yoshii8 · Post #4333 » by **yoshii8** » Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:49 pm

I would trade either Knight or Middleton for Exum. Possibly both.

JayMKE · Post #4334 » by **JayMKE** » Sun Feb 15, 2015 4:35 am

fwiw I was saying the same stuff about Exum back in June, had the entire country of Australia try to fight me :lol:

Guy has the tools to play in this league for sure, he just needs to learn how to play and that's going to take awhile.

Frank Nova · Post #4335 » by **Frank Nova** » Sun Feb 15, 2015 4:44 am

UWM_Brew_Buck wrote:
weezybaby856 wrote:
msiris wrote:Middleton and Harden are not even remotely close at all.

Clearly u missed the part where I said I wasn't comparing Middleton to Harden. It was more of a comparison of most opinions on this board to Sam Presti... Might want to re-read my post...

The comparison makes no sense, none of the assets in trade are even close to Exum's potential and as you stated Middleton isn't even close to an OKC Harden. I think a similar trade would be the Suns doing Dudley for Bledsoe. The Suns lost a fine NBA player in Dudley and took a risk on Bledsoe but Bledsoe panned out.

Nah, sorry can't agree there. Bledsoe was 3yrs into his career and showed crazy promise behind CP3 as an actual NBA player. Exum has shown jack **** so far. Harden was 23 when traded like Middleton is now and he was traded for essentially Lamb who was a 19yo rookie. Sorry but your not gonna just throw out every young player that's ever been traded for a vet and act like it proves your point. Don't work like that at all. The parallels of your point are way far off base here. Exum and Bledsoe are/were nothing alike. Exum and Jeremy Lamb however at the time of the Harden trade are damn near spot on. And how exactly has that turned out for OKC?

GHOSTofSIKMA · Post #4336 » by **GHOSTofSIKMA** » Sun Feb 15, 2015 5:01 am

Jez2983 wrote:I wonder if people who think Exum isn't an NBA player felt similarly about Giannis? .

giannis was supposed to be a year away from being a year away and he showed more in preseason than exums entire season so far.

AussieBuck · Post #4337 » by **AussieBuck** » Sun Feb 15, 2015 5:01 am

JayMKE wrote:fwiw I was saying the same stuff about Exum back in June, had the entire country of Australia try to fight me

Guy has the tools to play in this league for sure, he just needs to learn how to play and that's going to take awhile.

Weren't you calling him a chucker?

JayMKE · Post #4338 » by **JayMKE** » Sun Feb 15, 2015 5:17 am

AussieBuck wrote:
JayMKE wrote:fwiw I was saying the same stuff about Exum back in June, had the entire country of Australia try to fight me

Guy has the tools to play in this league for sure, he just needs to learn how to play and that's going to take awhile.

Weren't you calling him a chucker?

Chucker? Naw but I might of questioned his shot selection. My issue was more that I didn't believe he could walk into the NBA and be able to play PG on day 1, he didn't play any real competition in Australia and got by on pure physical ability. He's a slight guy that's not especially explosive around the basket, he can't really shoot at this point, and his handle isn't that tight. I thought it was crazy that people were putting him on the same level as Jabari, Wiggins, and Embiid who had higher ceilings + a real resume. I think I can stand by everything I said, perhaps there a few hyperbolic statements buried deep but I can't remember them. A lot of what I said was just me being incredulous at the fact some people were hyping up such an unknown quantity while at the same time tearing down the ultraskilled Jabari who half the forum was calling a fat chucker at one time.

Post #4339 » by **Prez** » Sun Feb 15, 2015 6:02 am

How long before we question Exum's potential? I mean, there's a visible difference between being raw/lacking experience...and looking totally lost and overwhelmed. I'd love for the kid to reach his hype, but there's never been any true indication that he can tear up the NBA the way he did his competition in Australia. Of course Giannis' intriguing potential from a couple years ago has evolved into true impact, but it's not always that way.

Some of my friends after Jabari's ACL injury were throwing around trade ideas revolving around Jabari and Exum, and it floored me. Like what has the dude done to even be in the same sentence as Jabari as far as potential goes? At least Jabari has had multiple 20+ point games and at moments looked like the best player wearing a Bucks uniform. Exum has done literally nothing whatsoever except flash that first step of his.

M-C-G · Post #4340 » by **M-C-G** » Sun Feb 15, 2015 6:36 am

Jez2983 wrote:I wonder if people who think Exum isn't an NBA player felt similarly about Giannis?

I also feel our staff would do amazing things with Exum.

I finally wonder if some people would have done a Klay Thompson for Giannis trade last year (assuming Klay re-signed with us)

Exum for Mids would be interesting, but moving Knight instead would be better.

If Middleton was a lottery pick how would people feel about letting him get away?