**OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD** Dog Will and Joe Judas must GO!

MrDollarBills · Post #1 » by **MrDollarBills** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 3:14 am

I'm done with Joe Judas.

and Deron the Dog Williams

and big Bitch Lopez

You guys can blame Hollins all you want. You can hate Jarret Jack. You can toss Plumlee under the bus.

FACTS:

The three highest paid players on this team aren't worth S H I T.

Billy King and the ineptitude of these **** ing losers are the cause of everything.

If we can ship two of these ass holes out of here during the summer, we should feel fortunate.

I would have taken that deal earlier on in the year. King is a fool. These dudes suck balls.

Pumbo_Sploof · Post #2 » by **Pumbo_Sploof** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 6:36 am

Why do you call him Joe Judas? That would imply he betrayed you. Which would seem to imply you once valued him. Which would mean you overvalued him. Don't blame Joe for your poor talent assessment!

He's always been the worst of the big three and the silent cancer. Was always the piece that didn't fit, but hid behind the other "big 3".

Should have moved him this off-season as I alone advocated. I was mocked and hated, but I was of course right.

Post #3 » by **Diop** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 11:16 am

still makes me think that a Lance/JJ swap probably would have benefited both teams

Paradise · Post #4 » by **Paradise** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 11:48 am

Sachmo wrote:still makes me think that a Lance/JJ swap probably would have benefited both teams

The only thing a Lance Stephenson/Joe Johnson swap can do for us is help us financially. Stephenson is terrible and he confirmed that last night.

kerry kittles · Post #5 » by **kerry kittles** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 12:48 pm

Pumbo_Sploof wrote:Why do you call him Joe Judas? That would imply he betrayed you. Which would seem to imply you once valued him. Which would mean you overvalued him. Don't blame Joe for your poor talent assessment!

He's always been the worst of the big three and the silent cancer. Was always the piece that didn't fit, but hid behind the other "big 3".

Should have moved him this off-season as I alone advocated. I was mocked and hated, but I was of course right.

What? You have 6 posts and you're talking about being mocked and hated for advocating moving Joe? LOL
No one talked about moving Joe this offseason on these boards. You certainly didn't and there was no conversation where anyone was mocked and hated.
His contract makes him pretty unmovable as well

How is he the silent cancer? The whole product is terrible. He's not causing terrible players to be terrible. He also hasnt always been the worst of the big 3. Where were you in the playoffs last year where DWill was held scoreless while Joe was putting the team on his shoulders? He was clearly better than DWill last year and Brook by default.

lkitt0804 · Post #6 » by **lkitt0804** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 2:06 pm

Biggest game of the year. Deron and Joe really needed to come through and carry us. Both had horrible games on both ends of the court. I don't see how we bounce back from this.

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MrDollarBills · Post #7 » by **MrDollarBills** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 2:15 pm

Pumbo_Sploof wrote:Why do you call him Joe Judas? That would imply he betrayed you. Which would seem to imply you once valued him. Which would mean you overvalued him. Don't blame Joe for your poor talent assessment!

He's always been the worst of the big three and the silent cancer. Was always the piece that didn't fit, but hid behind the other "big 3".

Should have moved him this off-season as I alone advocated. I was mocked and hated, but I was of course right.

This is by far the dumbest post I've ever read on here.

Johnson was the only one of the "big" 3 that was worth a damn last year. How can he hide behind Lopez, an oft injured, inconsistent career loser and Deron Williams, who has been a massive disappointment?

And who laughed and mocked you :crazy:

Post #8 » by **NyCeEvO** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 2:33 pm

Is it possible that multiple factors cause this team's demise and not just one?

I don't think anyone has argued that the team would be awesome if one player or one coach's presence was no longer here. The only people who come close to that are those who heavily favor particular players to the point of blind homerism and are unwilling to see their flaws.

The fact that the little 3 have underachieved has been beaten to death. This isn't a question. We have the highest payroll in the league, 9 games under .500 in the Eastern Conference, and everyone is healthy. That should be a clear cut sign that there is something severely wrong with player personnel.

If the players played up to the value of their contracts, we'd be fine and the lack of cap space wouldn't be an issue. But when none of your max contract players are top 5 (probably top 10) in their respective positions, you're going to suffer big time.

Personally, my order for the result that we're seeing is:
1) The Core
2) Billy King

A distant 3) Lionel Hollins

IMO, Hollins isn't that great of a coach but I don't think his decisions have negatively impacted us in a tremendous way. If you had another coach in here, I doubt they'd be close to .500 with this squad.

It's the players who are unable to produce anywhere close to the level that's expected of them and Billy King, who blew up the future for a group of guys who don't bring it.

I don't think we need an official thread to go over this stuff. We all know it and there's not much that can be done about it with Billy at the helm.

Shook Jones · Post #9 » by **Shook Jones** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 3:56 pm

Been said this team would be better without JJ on it. He is not interested in playing hard when it counts and doesnt get to the line at all. We should have done the JJ lance trade simpy to get either Henderson or Zeller, for god sake Marvin Williams went off against us last night. Zeller could have been a nice pairing to move Dwill.

I am not attached to any of these dudes and Mgmt shouldnt be either.

JJ is flat out a ball stopper on offense and dribbles for 10 secs b4 he gets into his moves, its horrible. I cant wait until this overpaid bum is moved. Eric Gordon would be a god send compared to this.

Deron Williams got ate up by Mo Williams once again, opposing pg's look at this dude as food.

kerry kittles · Post #10 » by **kerry kittles** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 4:10 pm

Shook Jones wrote:Been said this team would be better without JJ on it. He is not interested in playing hard when it counts and doesnt get to the line at all. We should have done the JJ lance trade simpy to get either Henderson or Zeller, for god sake Marvin Williams went off against us last night. Zeller could have been a nice pairing to move Dwill.

I am not attached to any of these dudes and Mgmt shouldnt be either.

JJ is flat out a ball stopper on offense and dribbles for 10 secs b4 he gets into his moves, its horrible. I cant wait until this overpaid bum is moved. Eric Gordon would be a god send compared to this.

Deron Williams got ate up by Mo Williams once again, opposing pg's look at this dude as food.

Like i posted on the previous thread:

Ortg with Joe on the court: 102.5
Ortg with Joe off the court: 96.6

Please provide empirical evidence we are better without Joe's ball stopping.

Zeller wasn't part of the Joe trade rumor. He was mentioned with Lance for Lopez. If we moved him for the sake of moving him: the rumor with the Pistons where we'd get back Jennings who ins't playing, Jerebko, and Butler whose been claimed by father time and is God Awful now how would we better. We'd be relying on lesser players.

He is also isn't being moved because no one is taking on his albatross contract. It would best to let it expire in 2016 than take on any salary that extends into 2017, further delaying the rebuild.

kerry kittles · Post #11 » by **kerry kittles** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 4:15 pm

NyCeEvO wrote:Is it possible that multiple factors cause this team's demise and not just one?

I don't think anyone has argued that the team would be awesome if one player or one coach's presence was no longer here. The only people who come close to that are those who heavily favor particular players to the point of blind homerism and are unwilling to see their flaws.

The fact that the little 3 have underachieved has been beaten to death. This isn't a question. We have the highest payroll in the league, 9 games under .500 in the Eastern Conference, and everyone is healthy. That should be a clear cut sign that there is something severely wrong with player personnel.

If the players played up to the value of their contracts, we'd be fine and the lack of cap space wouldn't be an issue. But when none of your max contract players are top 5 (probably top 10) in their respective positions, you're going to suffer big time.

Personally, my order for the result that we're seeing is:
1) The Core
2) Billy King

A distant 3) Lionel Hollins

IMO, Hollins isn't that great of a coach but I don't think his decisions have negatively impacted us in a tremendous way. If you had another coach in here, I doubt they'd be close to .500 with this squad.

It's the players who are unable to produce anywhere close to the level that's expected of them and Billy King, who blew up the future for a group of guys who don't bring it.

I don't think we need an official thread to go over this stuff. We all know it and there's not much that can be done about it with Billy at the helm.

This. I've said this multiple times: after Pierce left I said there's a good chance we miss the playoffs. The just isn't that good. It goes beyond anyone one player, coach. Reading the scapegoating: making one person shoulder the load is tiring.

Blame King were a reaping what he's sown. This team isn't good, has no future. Look at the Knicks: they were burdened by Stat and Bargs contract heading into the year. Everyone knew that team wasn't making the playoffs, but now they're coming into a top 4 pick. I'd take Mudiay, Towns, Okafor, Russel over anyone on this roster. King built a win-now team that can't win.

The whole thing is such a mess. You can't expect Hollins who was dealt a losing hand to bluff his way into the playoffs.

Prokorov · Post #12 » by **Prokorov** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 4:36 pm

Pumbo_Sploof wrote:Why do you call him Joe Judas? That would imply he betrayed you. Which would seem to imply you once valued him. Which would mean you overvalued him. Don't blame Joe for your poor talent assessment!

He's always been the worst of the big three and the silent cancer. Was always the piece that didn't fit, but hid behind the other "big 3".

Should have moved him this off-season as I alone advocated. I was mocked and hated, but I was of course right.

Brook is the worst of the big 3.

you can talk "cancer" but the only time this group got to the second round was on Joe's back and with lopez not on the team due to injury.

Our record without lopez this year and last year vs. with him is an enormous difference. im not calling him a cancer, but of the 3 he is the one who least impacts us winning.

none of the pieces fit.

Prokorov · Post #13 » by **Prokorov** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 4:38 pm

lkitt0804 wrote:Biggest game of the year. Deron and Joe really needed to come through and carry us. Both had horrible games on both ends of the court. I don't see how we bounce back from this.

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lopez was horrible on both ends as well. none of them get a pass for last night

Prokorov · Post #14 » by **Prokorov** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 4:40 pm

Shook Jones wrote:Been said this team would be better without JJ on it. He is not interested in playing hard when it counts and doesnt get to the line at all. We should have done the JJ lance trade simpy to get either Henderson or Zeller, for god sake Marvin Williams went off against us last night. Zeller could have been a nice pairing to move Dwill.

I am not attached to any of these dudes and Mgmt shouldnt be either.

JJ is flat out a ball stopper on offense and dribbles for 10 secs b4 he gets into his moves, its horrible. I cant wait until this overpaid bum is moved. Eric Gordon would be a god send compared to this.

Deron Williams got ate up by Mo Williams once again, opposing pg's look at this dude as food.

We should have done any of the charlotte trades.... JJ for Lance/Marvin Gerald or brook for Lance/Zeller.

both would have helped on the floor and financially.

Prokorov · Post #15 » by **Prokorov** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 4:44 pm

Blaming King is a cop out. We know king is the worst GM in sports and responsible for this mess.... but you simply cant give the players a pass like that.

as big a mess as king made, there is no reason this team cant be close to .500. with more effort alone we'd be better. The small 3 simply have no heart. Dwill might not be the dwill of old, but he shouldnt be getting outplayed by journeyman and scrubs. Lopez shouldnt be throwing up floaters and jumpshots when he is the biggest guy on the court most nights. JJ might be overly used with his minutes, but he should at least show some ounce of effort at least off the opening tip off.

Paradise · Post #16 » by **Paradise** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 4:54 pm

Prokorov wrote:Blaming King is a cop out. We know king is the worst GM in sports and responsible for this mess.... but you simply cant give the players a pass like that.

as big a mess as king made, there is no reason this team cant be close to .500. with more effort alone we'd be better. The small 3 simply have no heart. Dwill might not be the dwill of old, but he shouldnt be getting outplayed by journeyman and scrubs. Lopez shouldnt be throwing up floaters and jumpshots when he is the biggest guy on the court most nights. JJ might be overly used with his minutes, but he should at least show some ounce of effort at least off the opening tip off.

We won 93 games in the two previous seasons. This core could contend in the East if they truly wanted to win in this league but they don't. Being below average is normal. When Hollins attacked them in the media it was him being too harsh.

Billy King destroyed our future but no coach is changing the lack of competitive desire Deron/Brook/Joe has brought to this franchise.

Shook Jones · Post #17 » by **Shook Jones** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 5:01 pm

Lopez wants and tries to compete but he is a 1/2 clutz and he's a nerd. Also him being ultra nice guy doesnt help. If he had the fire in him his brother has he would be amazing. Lopez could dunk the ball at least 5 times a game but goes up for nice guy shots. Its frustrating as hell.

I take him at least trying over JJ walking up and down the court to each 3 pt line and then getting the ball and dribbling 15 times and chucking a contested 2. Cut without the ball and draw a foul for once joe!

Dwill is just a mental case further exposed cause of injury. The expectations crushed him.

Prokorov · Post #18 » by **Prokorov** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 5:10 pm

Shook Jones wrote:Lopez wants and tries to compete but he is a 1/2 clutz and he's a nerd. Also him being ultra nice guy doesnt help. If he had the fire in him his brother has he would be amazing. Lopez could dunk the ball at least 5 times a game but goes up for nice guy shots. Its frustrating as hell.

I take him at least trying over JJ walking up and down the court to each 3 pt line and then getting the ball and dribbling 15 times and chucking a contested 2. Cut without the ball and draw a foul for once joe!

Dwill is just a mental case further exposed cause of injury. The expectations crushed him.

JJ has checked out... overworked and checked out is a bad combo.

Everytime lopez takes that shotput flip shot he takes a day off of my life and somewhere a puppy dies

Dwill has gotten to the point were i dont even expect him to play good. that says enough in of itself

Pumbo_Sploof · Post #19 » by **Pumbo_Sploof** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 5:20 pm

Prokorov wrote:Our record without lopez this year and last year vs. with him is an enormous difference.

Correlation does not equal causation. This is a weak, reductionist argument.

Prokorov · Post #20 » by **Prokorov** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 5:26 pm

Pumbo_Sploof wrote:
Prokorov wrote:Our record without lopez this year and last year vs. with him is an enormous difference.

Correlation does not equal causation. This is a weak, reductionist argument.

causation is irrelevant. Regardless of reason, it is clear that we can, and have, won without him. id also argue all the things we got better at last year were at least inderectly due to lopez no longer being there. KG could play the 5, the ball moved better since livingston took lopez spot in the lineup. our fast break points and steals jump up, 2 things lopez doesnt do but the replacement did do well.

the only weak argument is you strawman.